GoDawgs21

AJ was brought in for more then on the court stuff. His exp. contract along with LO's is packagable for any deal to get another player. So would you rather have a fringe NBA player ala NF or JM that would have to beat out Solo or somebody to make the squad or have AJ and LO or Tlue and LO's exp to trade for a piece we might need???? God it must be hard to look at the big picture.

so Seattle's GM just got his d sucked by the draft panel for drafting an athletic team with interchangeable parts with three 6'9 guys. Now Sea will have a starting lineup with Durant, Lewis, and Green. Now Dickie v is excited about Sea. not comparing our guys with Durant, but why does BK get [censored] on for doing the same thing. Im just wondering if anyone else notices that no matter what Bk does its wrong. If our team was healthy last year I think we make that 8th seed. Nobody mentions that our original starting lineup coming into the year started a total of 5 games together, but when healthy. Speedy, Law, Johnson JJ, Salim Marvin, Chill Smith, Shelden, Solo Zaza, Horford Thats a very deep team that finally has some size in the East. (Note I assume Lue and Lo's contracts will be moved, along with Ivey.)

This is more point in the other thread. Everyone on here rips BK a new one because its the thing to do, offer up Chill and Marv almost as fillers. BK has drafted guys that other teams in the league want. Plain and simple. You may say that seems like a lot, but these were Philly guys coming up with this trade. So while you may not think Marvin is worth that other people from the outside looking in do. This is Marvins break out time, after he got back into his shooting groove after the hand injury Marvin showed what is coming. Other teams take note. Im sorry they dont write him off as a complete bust just two years after the draft and when he is 21, knowing when u draft him it may be till then that he blossoms.

i agree, Miller's contract is rather large and at 31 Im not hoping on board that one.

I hope this is specualtion, I'm sorry Miller is on the downslope of his career and makes to much $$ for me, and Carney is a Smith lite clone. Id much rather take a pick at 11 of PG and keep Marvin.

This is what I love about this board, its either white or black. I said in my post that i wasnt defending Bk just presenting the other side of the coin. I agree with the post. As my assesment mentioned in the other thread was that he is rated as a "C" GM. Pending on this years performance. I think Dolfan is right on. My only quam with this is the % of players picked in top 5 is a touch skewed. It wasn't like BK had a pick in 2003 when literally all were can't miss talents. Say he has a top 5 pick in 2003 and not in 2004 that drastically changes everything. I agree it helps to show who went after, but I think hurts when Lebron is statistaclly equal to Andrew Bogut. Or Wade, Melo, Bosh are even with the following years Marvin, Paul, Deron. Also Gordon scores alot, but if im not mistaken didn't he come off the bench so he could be the focus of the offense, but would remain in the game to finish. So if Chill and Shell at 5 and 6 are bad picks because they aren't starters what is that for Gordon at 3?

Your right this is his fifth season HF. '03 -'04 we might has well have been an expansion team with what we had to clean up from Babcock '04 -'05 first year with his players '05 -'06 youngest team in the NBA by almost 2.5 yrs '06 -'07 still the youngest team, in which our projected opening night lineup started a total of 4 games as a unit, and yet still managed to improve on the previous year so was your plan to come in blow up a team over the cap with aging players, somehow get younger and win at the same time???????? Its all about patience if you cant see how much better this team is off now then it was 5 years ago you are crazy. Im not saying it couldnt have been better with this move or that, but BK has taken a job NOBODY wanted with a old, capped out, team at 36 wins and turned into a young team that has cap room and a great opportunity to make a huge step this year. Just throwing this ??? out there. How much better are the Cavs then the Hawks? The team that represented the East this year in the finals. If I asked you blindly to estimate how many games better that team with only one true player on it is then the Hawks, 5, 10??? So how far off are we really??????

I completly agree. I'm by no means giving BK an A + grade. I feel like you a C is warrented and this is the make or break year injuries or no injuries. I just wanted to try and even out and shed some light on the other side of the argument. It seemed in the past year there has been a lot of Fordism going on. No matter what happened even if it was the posters original plan some how afterwards it was completely wrong. I did also note that those rankings were a year old and that helped Chill, but it probably hurt Marvin with his strong finish last year.

HF, so if you are willing to conside the drafting is a 6 or 7 based on a scale of 10, considering even most second rd picks BK has made are valuable NBA players. But your right drafting isnt the only thing. So lets review trades: Jon Barry for T Lue, I'd say that was a win for us. Diaw and a late 2008 draft pick for JJ, ummmmmmmm Diaw and what may be a 13 or 14th pick 3 years after the deal for an ALL-Star, yep he really got had there. Al Harrington for the 11th pick, so how is Ind doing with Murphy??? We would be in there shoes, no pick and with his contract so large for 4 yrs no room for FA, so all of you wanting Law or Critt could get used to Lue and Speedy with no hope of changing that had we gone that route. Note this was the only other solid offer reported. So we would have another F with a huge deal, and you thought we were loaded at F as is imagine Murphy in the mix now. Rasheed who was a FA and was most assuredly not resigning for 17th pick. I'll take that JT for Tione, ok you got me on this one. But BK was trying to shake things up, but this was just not working out While some of the early trades, JT, Theo, Rahim, may be iffy it was amazing that BK was able to get rid of those contracts at all. We were a 40 win team with no salary cap room and may have to take a little bit less then market value to move some contracts. While they may not have been idle they werent rapings. Oh and just for fun, Pau Gasol for Rahim. So please tell me were BK got completely raped on a trade. You can walk blindly and follow the popular masses, and disagree with his drafting, but honestly BK and his trades have worked out for the most part. I am really not trying to be a BK hugger, I just dont get how people think he is the devil brought back to life. There isn't a GM in the league that wouldn't jump to come in and take the team BK has, a young superstar in JJ, all young talent that is valued by other teams to trade with, and a reasonable amount of cap space. Beside the owner situation it is a pretty sweet foundation Bk has set up.

TP so if your theory is right and it's almost impossible to mess up a top pick please help me with this.. Gordon 3rd overall.... was redrafted at 10 Shaun Livingston at 4 now is rated 12th Should I start with Arrojo, Darko, or Jarvis Hayes in the top 10............. I'm not defending BK im just balancing out the people that go off the deep end to bash him. While he may not be doing the best GM'ing job in the world when you look at what he has done from what he was given it's not all that bad as some make it out to be

so your telling me there are 0 questions about a 19 yr old pg that played one year of college ball with the most dominant post player alongside???? That's just being narrowminded.

Just because he is the best PG in the this draft doesnt mean squat. Marcus Williams was the best PG last year where did he end up???

I love on this board the wide range of BK bashing. I dont agree with everything he has done, but I always at least stick up for the fact we haven't had catastrophic bust like other teams, and feel that as a talent evaluator BK is very compitent. We may not get the best need, but we get a valuable player in every draft. The personal opinons of many on this board make me laugh as if you have the inside information on everything that is going on. I recently was looking at the Draft home page on ESPN and came across Hollinger's redrafts. This is Hollinger using his statistical formulas that he covets to go back and redraft according to production. Granted this was done a year ago, which I think hurts Marvin, but helps Chill. http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2006/n...ge=redraft/2005 Everyone whips BK for his picks but taking a quick look.... from the 2005 draft: Marvin was drafted 2nd, and is picked at 6 in the redraft from 2004: Smith was drafted at 17, reforcasted at 4 Chill was taken at 6 reforcasted to 7 (Iggy is 8th due to lack of reb vs Chills) from 2003: Diaw was taken 21st, but is now rated at 6. So in 3 drafts players taken at 2,17,6,21 are respectfully now in hindsight valued at 6,4,7,6 in their draft classes. I would say that is a very good indicator of talent. Only one player would be taken lower then where they were drafted in Marvin. This being sad everyone knows Marvin was a project and it would be until this year that he would most likely have an impact. While you may not like the picks BK has made you can't say he hasn't gotten value out of the draft

I really think this is BK's way of f'n with Memphis. Memphis made it known they wanted Horford. If the Hawks look poised to take him wouldnt that give them incentive to move up with a trade. Some pieces and the 4th, we get Yi at 4 or Pau in a trade and move out of the 3????

Just updating this thought......... I hate Ford and his crack pot journalism, but in his recent blog he cited Andy Katz and several other sources for possible draft talk. The main points being McHale loves Hawes and might be close to making him a promise at 7 so he stays in the draft and also that Char loved Brewer. Also Green may pull out. So looking at the top 11. Baring trades......... its looking my possible then anything else 1 POR Greg Oden, 2 SEA Kevin Durant, 3 ATL Yi Jianlian 4 MEM Al Horford (clearly this is their target) 5 BOS Brandan Wright 6 MIL Julian Wright 7 MIN Spencer Hawes 8 CHA Corey Brewer 9 CHI ???? 10 SAC Joakim Noah 11 ATL Mike Conley, The only spot is if Boston trades out of 5 or Mil, goes with Conley at 6. If Conley gets past 6th there is no reason to think that he wont make it to 11. If Min, Cha, are sold on Hawes and Brewer they would not be trading out of those spots. Chi and Sac both need frontcourt help and are unlikely to take a PG or trade to pass up on the likes of Noah. The more the draft comes together the more I believe Conley will be there at 11. Quote: Quote: http://www.sportsline.com/nba/draft/mock Mock Drafts Tony Mejia Gary Parrish TSX 1 POR Greg Oden, C, Ohio State 2 SEA Kevin Durant, F, Texas 3 ATL Al Horford, F, Florida 4 MEM Brandan Wright, F, North Carolina 5 BOS Yi Jianlian, F/C, Guangdong, China 6 MIL Julian Wright, F, Kansas 7 MIN Corey Brewer, G/F, Florida 8 CHA Spencer Hawes, C, Washington 9 CHI Jeff Green, F, Georgetown 10 SAC Joakim Noah, F, Florida 11 ATL Mike Conley, G, Ohio State 12 PHI Al Thornton, F, Florida State 13 NO Nick Young, G, Southern California 14 LAC Javaris Crittenton, G, Georgia Tech 15 DET Acie Law, G, Texas A&M This is why most of us are not sold on Conley. It's not that he isn't good, but is he worth the 3rd pick when he himself or another PG could be there at 11. One must forget that it was Conley's camp that put out there Por wanted to trade to Atl to get him at 3. There is always hype put out there to inflate a persons draft status. Prior to the tournament there was still a question if he should come out. So all this being said, if we take Yi (my pick) or Hofford at 3, does Conley fall to us at 11 baring trades. Memphis could take him, but but I believe they are looking for a post presence to team with Pau. Bos ? with the three young PG they have would they? Mil is the best candidate between 3 and 11 Min has Foye Cha has Knight and Felton Chi has hinrich Sac possible to replace Bibby There is a very good chance he could fall to 11. This would make Hawksquawk land such a happy place for the most part. Can that ever happen, no bitching and moaning, but actual happiness on this board. [/indent] I put this up yesterday. For all the Conley lovers, its not the we hate him, but he isn't woth the 3rd pick. If you look later in that thread all of the mocks prelottery selection have him going 10th or below. It wasn't until we got the 3rd pick and people said will Atl needs a PG did he skyrocket. All the talk about Por wanting to trade to get him was from Mike Conley Sr's camp to try and raise his value. I have a sneaky feeling he will be there at 11.

I love when people make their opinons and generalizations about things. I posted this back after the draft. BK has only had 2 picks in the top 5. Marvin and Shelden. Thats it. Look at this and his avg draft position and look at the talent accumalated vs other teams. Every single team has been hit or miss. BK has at least drafted a viable NBA talent with every pick. http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat....o=&fpart=1&vc=1 Quote: Call it a slow day at work, but just to show what we are saying by picks better GM, here are teams drafts for 2003,2004,2005 since the 2006 rookies havent played enough to judge they will not be included. The teams are ranked in avg. pick number. This only includes 1st rounders. SO logically the teams with the lower draft postion should be worse picks. Those at the top of the list have had picks of better caliber players. Avg Pick 1) 4.5 Mil- 8)TJ Ford, 1)Andrew Bogut 2) 5.5 Cle- 1)Lebron James, 10)Luke Jackson 3) 5.6 Chi- 7)Kirk Hinrich, 3)Ben Gordon, 7)Loul Deng 4) 6.6 Cha- 2)Emkea Okafor, 5)Raymond Felton,13)Sean May 5) 7.3 LAC- 6)Kaman, 4) Livingston, 12)Yaraslov Korolev 6) 8.5 NYK- 9)Frye, 8)Sweetney 7) 8.8 Tor- 4)Bosh, 8)Arajuo, 7)Villenueva, 16)J. Graham 8) 9 Phi- 9)Iguedola 9) 10 Was- 10)Jarvis Hayes 10) 10.3 GST- 11)Pietrus, 11)Biedrinis, 9)Diogiu 11) 11.8 Atl- 22)Boris, 6)Chill, 17)Smoove, 2)Marvin 12) 12 Orl- 16)R. Gains, 1)Howard, 20)Nelson, 11)Vazquez 13) 13.3 Uta- 20)Pavlovic, 14)Humphries, 16)Snyder, 3)Deron 14) 13.6 NO - 19)West, 18) JR Smith, 4) Paul 15) 16 Sea- 12)Collison, 15)Ridnour, 12)Swift, 25)Petro 16) 16.6 Den- 3)Melo, 20)Julis Hodge, 27) Linos Kleiza 17) 17.6 Mia- 5)Wade, 19)Dorell Wright, 29)Wayne Simon 18) 18 Det- 2)Darko, 26)Delfino, 26)Jason Maxell 19) 18.3 Por- 24)Outlaw, 13)Telfair, 22)Khyrpa, 23)Monia, 6)Jack, 22)Martell Wbster 20) 18.6 Dal- 30)Howard, 5)Harris, 21)Pavel Podkolzine 21) 19 NJN- 23)Zoran Planic 22) 19.5 PHX- 18)Cabarkaba, 21)Nate Robinson 23) 20 Bos- 17)T. bell, 21)D. Jones, 15)Jefferson, 18)Green, 24) West, 25) Allen 24) 20.3 Mem- 14)Banks, 28)Perkins, 19)Warrick 25) 20.5 Min- 27)Nbudi Ebi, 14)Rashd McCants 26) 20.6 LAL- 25)Cook, 27)Vujaecic, 10)Bynum 27) 23 Ind- 29)Harrison, 17)Granger 28) 24 Hou- 24) Luther Head 29) 24.5 Sac- 26) Kevin Martin, 23) F. Garcia 30) 28.3 SA- 29)Barbosa, 28) Udrih, 28) Ian Mahiuni Have fun but name 5 teams with better total picks, not just one guy cause they had a high pick and then compare that years pick wtih Atl. Name 5 teams with better drafts. PLEASE. I will give you with avg picks worse then ours Dal, NO, and Utah have done better.

i love how after one year of play a player is a "superior" talent. that and i love the idea of BK as a horrible drafter, he is the one GM that hasn't had a complete whiff. The drafts are crap shoots, like Tor taking Arrojo with the 8th pick several years back. Players can look amazing on tape, in practice, in workouts, whatever, but there are always bust. You can't label a single BK pick a bust. IT may not have been the best pick, but name one GM that didnt pass on this guy or that guy at some point. But one thing there isnt a single BK pick that doesnt have value right now. All these trade proposals of Chill or Sheld for this player and that player while I think most are ludacris, they still get more value then drafting Fran Vazquez in the lottery.

I'm sure BK would love to play Mr. Potato head and mythiclly create a C and PG. But please tell me of the two C's taken last year O'bryant and Armstrong, both taken well after Shelden what C there was for BK to choose from???????? So your answer is well he shoudl have drafted a C last year, ummmmmmmmmmmm find me a center in last years draft that was better then Shelden. NOTICE I didnt say CENTER, I said a defensive presence in the lane!!!!!!!!!! Also now that BK is coming out saying Shelden will get more minutes at the Center postion then last year, dont you think that is him saying, Woody I drafted this guy to be you big man in the paint and rebound and you didnt use him right???????? I wish we could have picked up that so called center last year, oh what was his name..... oh yeh he didnt exsist. WIth no true PG and no big time changing center, and a need for a player in the paint, BK took a 2 time defensive player of the year, whiel he got hurt and wasnt used correctly it isnt BK's fault the hand he was dealt. Next it will be his fault for not getting a guy liek Dwight Howard as if they grow on trees and he can magically make one appear at our draft spot.

I still love this argument out of the Conley camp. There are no clear C so lets draft to fill a need. So last year when there was no "true" PG's and we draft Shelden to fill a need BK was the biggest bafoon???? Please somebody explain to me this logic. While I think Shelden will become a 12/10 guy with good defense many are writing that off as a bust and horrible pick. So let me get this straight, our need last year was a big body downlow to playa d in the paint. There were no "true" pgs so we take a proven 2 time defensive player of the year and all-american at our need, but its a horrible idea. Then this year our need is a PG so the best option is a 19yr old freshman that played on a stacked team. Does anyone else not find this ironic???? The same posters that beat BK to death for drafting on need and not taking a player that may have more upside even if it is at a duplicate position, now want to do the same thing this year with someone that is even less proven. Im not bashing Conley here, but some want to draft guy that before the lottery when we got the 3rd pick was not projected in any mock to go higher then 7. even now in many mocks he is sliding to 11. So BK should just take the less proven talent much higher then supposed to inorder to fill a need?????????????? God I love the hypocracy that runs rampent on here. I think Chad Ford is posting under 20 SN's

i agree, does anyone not remember the start of the season he had, before the shoulder injury he was leading all rookies in reboudning. I just still can't get over how in one post someone can bash BK for drafting on need, and then in another proclaim we need to draft based on need. There are a lot of Chad Ford clones in here

My all time favorite argument on here. LMAO!!!!!!!!!! So let me get this straight, last year one of our biggest needs was to get a big body down low and a defensive presence in the paint. The plan was a healthy Speedy, so PG wasn't as big of a need, a need but not a glaring need. So last year we draft a guy at 5 that was slotted to be between 9-12 in the draft based on NEED. He was a two time defensive player of the year and supposed to be the most NBA ready big man. So we take him higher then most projected his value and everyone bitches and moans. NOW STOP ME IF THIS SOUNDS FAMILIAR THIS YEAR. Our need is a PG, so pre lottery and even in many mocks now Conely is going between 8-11. So if you bash on BK for tkaing Shelden higher then projected because of need, then how can you justify taking Conely at 3???????????????????????? Conely is a 19 yr old freshman and still no gurantee, but he is supposed to be picked 8 spots higher then his value because he is a need. For anyone wanting to draft Conley at 3 and not wait for him at 11 or take Law or Critt at 11, there can be no talk about how Shelden was a bad pick. Roy, Foye, etc would have all been duplicating players we already have at the wing, there was no clear PG last year. So we took a need not talent. Taking Conley is doing the exact same thing, when servicable PG's will be available at 11.

I just don't understand why in todays NBA we are locked into having a "traditinal" center. Why can't a line up of 2 large PF's work?????? Teams like Ind, Det, Phx, have gone to this, why does it have to be he is a center? What is wrong with a starting lineup in a year after Yi has been seasoned of (PG taken at 11 or trade), JJ, Marvin, Josh Smith, Yi. I still don't see with zones and the length of Yi and Smith what the problem is. There are only a handful of "dominat' post up big man now. Shelden will get more then his fair share of minutes in those games, but to say Yi is worthless is not thinking outside the box

This is what I found more exciting then the stats. Look at that second box score when he got 30 min. Notice Yao and Wang got DNP. So Yi started at F and was the biggest starter. I would guess he was guarding the post players in Bosh etc. So for the theory he would foul out in 12 min vs NBA level post players is now comical.

Here's my question if the ping pong balls bounced the other way and we had the 2nd pick, A) would everyone on this thread that is claiming Yi is not a need since he will cut into Smith, Marvin, minutes B) would you be bringing up he cant bench 185 and will assuredly be posted up by and 2,3, or 4 that he guards. My point is they are all rookies and young, they all have stuff they need to work on. But Hofford is Shelden, Conely is not worth a 3 pick when many have him falling to us at 11 or law will be there. So I am making these lineups and discussing what should happen when we take Yi at 3.

first of all did anyone actually watch the Zhi Zhi game????????? This is what I have been trying to find out. Wang was a 3 point specialist, he was China's best shooter. I haven't seen the game, and I have no clue how he scored, but just because Wang scored 30 something doesnt mean he was posting Yi up. No doubt he could, and I am not saying Yi is by no means ready for 48 minutes as an NBA C, but if Wang went 8-12 from 3 then whats the point of even brining it up???