GoDawgs21

Hawk, for the last time look at my last two post, I am not even talking about him jacking up threes as my problem. Its a lack of hustle, or actually literally standing and watching a play in the final 2 minutes. Most of his shots were wide open looks, I may not be happy with that but I can live with it. When he has his man out on him he needs to drive and draw a foul. Look at my point, there were a lot of reasons for that loss, missed FT, missed FG, etc etc. But there was one real easy thing that could have won it for us. NOT STANDING AROUND. One play he is diving on the floor, yes, but then the next he stnads there and watchs the ball literally roll at a snails pace back out to Tione. That is effort and having your head in the game. I dont care who you are in the final two minutes, if he just doesnt run by and stop and watch, but just stand there he gets the reb, and keeps 3 points off the board. We arent saying he is a bad player, we are saying he plays like a rookie. Which 21 or not 3 years into the league you shouldnt be doing.

Hawky if all you do is look at the box score then this is a mute point. Yes 15 and 7 is nice. Notice in 51 minutes!!! Yes 15/7 and 25/10 from Al are nice, but its all about efficency, and total game. You say half the league takes off plays, which I fully believe(why I think our depth is crucial) but to take off a play in the last 2 minutes of a back and forth game ??????? Thats absurd. Im not completely knocking on him I think he is a good player, but its these moments he spaces out amoung other things that a costing us. My point was you asked how you can say he plays like a rookie, and thats it. A rookie will amaze you one minute and baffle you the next. Thats what he is doing, and in a 3rd year player that has to set off some bells. It could be the coaches not developing him, it could be him. I dont know since im not there on a daily basis. But no 3rd year player should be making the stupid mistakes he does.

Hawkman, please note my point wasnt based soley on his 3pt shooting. Yes he does hustle when he wants to. I wrote last week about how he was hustling, but he seems to pick and chose when to do it. That rebound he gave up as a witness on the bench turned into a layup plus 1 for DWade, thats 3 point swing in the last two min. of regulation in a tight game. If your heart isn't in it to hustle in the final 2 minutes of a game then when is it. He literally should have bought a ticket for the play. He just stays in position, not even hustle or anything just not run past the shooter and turn and watch he gets the reb. Im sorry I dont know if its hi mentallity, or Woody just not getting on him enough and forcing all out hustle I dont know. I was just saying I can plays he takes off. He hustles 75% of the time but in the NBA you have to do it every play.

I am not going to completely trash or defend Smith, but I see why MW24 says he plays like a rookie. He does huge thins ala the put back that helped us get to OT, but there are little things that he doesnt do that makes him like a rookie. Im not trying to be mean but if you play basektball you notice them. I literally threw my beer down on one possesion late in the game. The Hawks were in a zone forcing outside shots. Its harder to rebound to begin with in a zone because you cant immediatly body someone up. Thats why you have to give extra effort. Employee 8 shot a ball from the corner in front of the bench. Josh ran out at him and past him, thats good. The bad part. As a shooter espically from that spot you are taught to follow your shot because 9/10 times it is short and comes right back to you. Josh kept running into the bench (not out of control, just lazyly) turned and watched. Walker did the same, he didnt even move, guess what the ball literally rolled out to him. With any effort Smooth could have taken 2 steps and got in front of him when the shot went up and had an easy reb. The other play was a 4-2 fast break in the 3rd when we were down 1 and going for the led. Josh got the def. reb and tried to go coast to coast. Lue and JJ were on the wings running with him. He has to give that up, more times then not he passes the def leaves and they toss him an alley oop. Instead he dribbles right into JWilliams and he stole it, wated 4-2 break. Woody just stared him down saying you have two PG's on the break give it up. Next was the defensive end. On a crucial late 4th quarter possession Lue got switched with JJ on Wade. Wade began to back him down on the baseline. Lue played great d with that height advantage. In that spot you have to shut off the baseline. You let him go baseline and there is no help. it was clear as to this happened before a double team from up top was supposed to come. Lue made Wade go to the middle and Josh just watched he didnt come down at all. Woody called a TO immediatlly and reamed Smoove. You cant just be a spectator. For all those against Shell, there was a perfect example of his defensive knowledge. One foul he picked up was on an iddentical play. he was almost at the elbow and smith was in the middle of the paint. Wade was posting up JJ, Josh just stood there. Shell crashed all the way down, literally knocking Josh out of the way. he was trying to cover up Josh's mistake and he got called for a cheap foul. Yes you look at the box score and see 16 and 13 but that was in 51 minutes. 0-5 from 3. Im sorry but I can handle 1 or 2 three's, but 0-5 ????? I dont care if your open drive and make the d play you. I love Smooth and it pains me badly to say this. But I can at least see a glimps of what Bilas was saying draft night. I think its to a far less extent then stated that night. but it seems Smoove is like a rookie mentally checking out of some plays. yes he does amazing stuff, but in the NBA you have to be in every play you cant take time to be not 100%. Little things like above make a world of differences. Thats why he plays likea rookie, he makes one great play then a bonehead one. i think a lot of this has to be the HS factor. You see guys like Chill and Shell always being in the right place at the right time, that isnt luck. Its good basketball sense that the learned from guys like Coach K and Montgomery. Josh is still mentally playing like a rookie at times whcih concerns me in year 3.

Anybody that wouldn't welcome this trade is being just plain silly. KG is possible the most complete player in the NBA, pts,blks,rebs,asst, and stls. I love Josh and Josh, but I still think it would take more to get KG. If thats all it took any GM would break an ankle getting to the phone as fast as possible. KG has been in the league for awhile, but he too was a HS guy. he still has 5-7 years left in him. Like Sothron pointed out there could be (which I see remote) that one of those guys isn't even here that long. JJ and KG would be like a Shaq/Wade combo. Im sorry but in the East KG would instantly become the best pf in the east. Imagine: Speedy JJ Marvin KG zaza Bench: Lue Salim Shelden LO We made need to draft a shooter or try and sign a swing man for depth(who would have guessed another one). This trade would be the best thing for the Hawks. However, all that being said there is no way Minn. does that trade. The latest rumors are KG for Lamar odom and Andruw Bynum, a all-star PF and a budding true 7 foot center. Thats quantium leaps more talent then Chill and Smoove. It might take several picks and another player to close the salary difference.

119 Row E. Taking the girl out to her first game.

Its not trolling. We have our debate in one thread, then the next day in another thread you say the complete opposite statement. We had a nice convo yesterday about the draft picks. You asked my opinion I gave it. I havent once personally attacked you, I have shown evidence that shows your commments to be incorrect. Thats it. If you want to come on here and bash BK, be prepared to have SOME (ANY) evidence to support your decision. You call it trolling becuase you dont have a leg to stand on in the debate. Im not personally attacking you. I posted most of those to anybody Walter, etc that bashes on BK. Walter and I have sparred in the past. Unlike you I have much respect for walter. He defends his position with intellegent and insightful information. I dont agree with him, but I can at least say I see his side because he does back it up with evidence showing how he arrived at his conclusion. One day you are aguing about how BK hs ruined the team, the we win 3 in a row and it's the best you have felt about this team in years (or as i put it you havent felt better about this team in a long time, sorry I know there are such major differences there). One post you say Chill was a horrible pick then the next day we wont be able to resign because he will be starting for at least 110 teams in the league. You say I follow you around, yet it was a completely other poster that hasnt even been involved in our debates that called you out in the ticket off thread. SO ITS NOT JUST ME SEEING YOUR FENCE SITTING. You cant flip flop with wins and loses. How you still think I am a dummy account when you can go back and see what I have written since 2004 is beyond me. You can also go on the ESPN boards and see my post as GoDawgs07, many were cut and paste from my post here. Northcyde and I have had many a convo over there.

I never once posted personally about Sothy, I just was tired of his BK bashing, without even knowing when the guiy took over. Everything I posted was simple refutes to his statements. He is the one that resorted to calling me cupcake and troll. Sometimes one's best argument when beaten is to start name calling (theres a personal pop shot)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wow and I thought my 5 year old cousin was bad. That post says "I cant win, so I am taking my ball and going home" LOL that is too funny

If you really want to put your money where you mouth is read one thing I wrote. Click on my SN and then the tab view all post. Thats why it takes 5 sec to find your quotes not hours. Now you have to resort to calling me a troll because you have been proven wrong. 85 post before you not calling out anyone, just post. Im not trolling you I am actually showing stats and proof that you are wrong. Scroll up in this post and you can se my explanation for lack of post. I dont comment on ever trival topic, I usually keep to myself read and laugh. Make my one comment and leave, but you need to be called out for the clown you are. Funny GSU and everyone made the comment about 2 or 3 clowns on this board following your and TP's thread last week. So everyone thinks your full of nonsense, but you. I guess we are all wrong. I cant help you cant except that fact. So now back to that money, since you said you would put your money on it. Lets see it.

Chris Sheridan: (12:03 PM ET ) Good afternoon from New York, where thousands upon thousands of tickets remain available for tomorrow night's Celtics-Knicks tilt. Isiah's team drew the smallest crowd in 14 years Wednesday night against Washington (14,767). So we can chat about them today, or we can discuss the sad sack franchise from across the continent in Portland. I'll have a story up on the site today examining several aspects of the Blazers' troubles, some of which was gleaned from a sitdown I had with Paul Allen. He wins the prize for the richest guy I've ever interviewed. So off we go ... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Justin (Brooklyn, NY): I can't get over how good Baron Davis looked last night. Seems like Nellie was just what he needed all along. Do you think he'll keep this up (attacking the rim, finding the open man, not jacking up threes) all season, or will we see the old Baron if the team hits a bad spell? Chris Sheridan: (12:05 PM ET ) The old Baron was carrying around a lot more weight than the new slimmed-down Baron, and the added weight didn't help his back problem. So as long as he keeps the weight off (and it's hard to put on weight over the course of an NBA season), I see him keeping this up all year. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scott (Philly, PA): Will the Celtics package some youth in a trade for a good veteran? They either need to trade Pierce or get him veteran help...otherwise he's just being wasted. Chris Sheridan: (12:07 PM ET ) I think they'll package a few younger players in a deal before mid-December, because they're committed to trying to put the right pieces around Pierce. A big factor will be whether Danny Ainge is willing to give up Delonte West, who doesn't seem to be suited to the role they're trying to force him into. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris (Queens, NY): From watching last nights game, its obvious the bulls need a low post scorer. I still never understood why they paid big ben all that money. You saw in last years east finals how much of a liability he is in late games. Any chance the bulls try to swing a deal for randolph.... Chris Sheridan: (12:10 PM ET ) With P.J. Brown being dropped from the starting lineup, the have even less low-post scoring than they started the season with. But that should change the more they work in Tyrus Thomas. Again, you've got to give the Bulls a good 40 games to see what they have. There will be a lot more trade options around the league by that time, too, so don't hold your breath looking for Paxson to tinker with the front line. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reggie(toronto): Chris,what will the Raps need to do if the season goes from bad to worse: nothing as team chemistry needs to develop,add talent via trade or fire Sam Mitchell ? Chris Sheridan: (12:14 PM ET ) Right now, Reggie, it looks like they're giving serious consideration to moving Morris Peterson, who has an expiring contract and is worth a flyer for a team seeking a veteran who can shoot a little. As for Sam, I can't see them cutting him loose before January at the earliest, and I don't think Sam is worried about finding a job elsewhere if he gets canned in Toronto. I discussed his situation and several other coaching hot seat cases in a story that went up on the site yesterday. Plz give it a read. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tim (Seymour, CT): Chris, I know you feel that Isiah will untimately be dismissed. But let's give him credit for not trying to acquire, (K-Mart or Miles), imagine if that had happened. Also, which Knick guard has the most trade value...(Robinson, Crawford or Richardson.) Thanks! Chris Sheridan: (12:19 PM ET ) The more I hear about that Miles deal, the more it becomes clear how close Isiah was to getting him. There's been some debate over whether it was actually Paul Allen who squashed that deal. What I've heard is that it broke down over a squabble over whether the Knicks would give Portland the No. 20 pick (which became Renaldo Balkman) or the No. 29 pick (Mardy Collins). As for which Knicks has the most trade value (somebody probably has to go once Jared Jeffries starts playing in January), I'd have to say it's Crawford because even though Q is having a much better season, he has a bad back that his team cannot cover through insurance. And I don't see them trading Nate, who's their leading scorer right now and one of the few players the fans have taken a liking to. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Shane (Silver Spring, MD): Can the Warriors role players (Pietrus, Ellis, and Biedrins) keep up this high level of play all year? All 3 have been really impressive. Chris Sheridan: (12:22 PM ET ) They all fit nicely in a Nellie system, so why not? They were pretty fun to watch last night, and I'm taking the same kind of liking to watching their games as I did to watching Suns games last season. It's particularly entertaining to watch Biedrins try to shoot free throws, The guy makes Ben Wallace look like a marksman. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scott: What do you make of the Pacers/Jermaine O'Neal dust-up? Chris Sheridan: (12:26 PM ET ) Some teams always seem to air their frustrations publicly, especially these guys. What do I make of it? Yet another indication that Indiana's chemistry issues are far from settled. There are quite a few unhappy campers there, and I expect them to be active traders once that market heats up. It makes sense for them to try to move Stephen Jackson, and probably Jeff Foster, too, if they're going to stick with a small rotation and not utilize him. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Keenan (College Park, MD): With C-Webb already upset over his role what are the chances he gets dealt? And what could the 76ers get in return? Chris Sheridan: (12:29 PM ET ) He might be the most untradeable player in the league right now, although recent events have probably elevated Kenyon Martin and Darius Miles on that list. He makes $20.7 million this season and $22.3 million next season, and I challenge you to find any team out there willing to take on that contract. Chris is apparently going to have to get used to sulking on the bench in the fourth quarter. The only way he gets his freedom is if he takes a buyout. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael (ATL): Do you think the Hawks will play somewhat well (but still miss the playoffs) because the basketball gods don't want to see them get Oden? Seriously, of all the years NOT to be in the basement. Chris Sheridan: (12:31 PM ET ) I believe the Hawks lose their pick if it isn't top three (it goes to Phoenix as part of the Joe Johnson deal). Gimme a minute here to look it up ... Chris Sheridan: (12:34 PM ET ) Yes, it's only protected 1-3, and there's no protection next year. So their only chance of getting Oden would be to miss the playoffs this year and win one of the top three spots in the lottery so they could keep the pick. But we might be getting a little ahead of ourselves in discussing Oden, since there's talk he may stay at Ohio State for more than the one year everyone is presuming he'll be there for. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oliver ( NY): Francis and Malik Rose for C-Webb, book it baby. Isisah cannot possibly pass on that contract. Chris Sheridan: (12:35 PM ET ) Isiah is no longer allowed to take on big contracts. That's why they bought out Mo Taylor ($9.9M) and Jalen Rose ($16.9M), who both had expiring deals. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dan (Denver): Three straight years that the Nuggets lose a starter or key player for the year in Nov. Will the Nuggets be better without K-Mart's attitude? Chris Sheridan: (12:38 PM ET ) Well, at least they won't have to continue the charade of Furious George and K-Mart pretending they like each other. How the Nuggets respond to losing K-Mart will depend in large part how Najera and Reggie Evans respond to increased roles over the next two months as the Nuggs continue to bring Nene back slowly. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oliver (NY): Chris, you are wrong, due to the fact that Webber's deal expires sooner than Francis and Rose, this deal makes sense financially and clears up some logjam at guard. This actually is a good deal for both teams. And don't be a chicken and post this!!!!!!!!!!! Chris Sheridan: (12:40 PM ET ) A good deal for both teams? Why would the Sixers want to take on an even longer financial commitment with Francis and Rose? It makes zero sense for them. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim (ny): You mind telling me where you looked up that info about that hawks pick? Don't be a chicken and post THIS!!!!! Chris Sheridan: (12:41 PM ET ) From the trove of reference material I keep on hand for moments like that. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- lp new bedford: what makes you say the celtics owners ar getting restless w/ ainge....your opinion or fact? Chris Sheridan: (12:41 PM ET ) It's what one of my best sources in Boston is telling me. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jared (NJ): I know Marbury looks a step slower, but part of the problem I feel is Isiah's offensive plan...Everytime he dribbles the ball up to the three point line and then dishes it and then they usually dump in to Curry for a brick or Crawford for an off-balanced shot. WHy doesn't Isiah let Steph be more aggressive? Chris Sheridan: (12:43 PM ET ) Steph is playing off the ball a lot more this year, and he's been such a liability when he has had the ball that Isiah has had to get him out of there. There's no easy solution for Isiah, and Nate Robinson is making it even tougher. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ted (Seattle): Andres Nocioni was such a force in the playoffs last year against Miami - why has his role diminished so much this season? Seems to me he's the consistent offensive weapon they need right now. Chris Sheridan: (12:46 PM ET ) He seems to be struggling with his confidence on his jump shot, but he's always been much more of a big contributor in the playoffs than he has been during the regular season. Give him a little time, though. Skiles is still messing with his lineups and rotations, and it's going to take some time for anyone on that team to settle into any kind of consistency _ especially when they're so reliant on such a hot and cold offensive guy in Ben Gordon. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gregg (Boston): Why are you coming down so hard on the Blazers? It looks to me like they have finally turned a corner and headed in the right direction with B-Roy leading the way. Chris Sheridan: (12:52 PM ET ) B.Roy was walking around in a cast the last time I saw him, Gregg, which was only five days ago. Heel injuries can take a long, long time to heal, so let's not give B.Roy the ROY award just yet, OK? I think I came down hardest on the Blazers in today's piece for the knuckleheaded arrangement they have with the bondholders who now own the Rose Garden, a situation where the Blazers and the bondholders are actually competing for customers because the bondholders get all the revenue from the club seats, luxury boxes and courtside seats. It's absolutely crazy, really, and Paul Allen could fix it if he'd only swallow a bit of pride and buy back the arena from the bondholders. But he's being stubborn, and the madness continues. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris (Los Angeles): The Bulls will win at least 3 games on their road trip. True or False? Chris Sheridan: (12:53 PM ET ) True. The days of going winless on the circus trip ended when Jerry Krause and Tim Floyd exited the picture. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scott (Miami): Hey Chris, have you changed any of your predictions for division and conference winners based on the first couple weeks of the season? How much stock do you put into all these starts? Chris Sheridan: (12:57 PM ET ) I think I'm most disappointed in the Pistons, and it truly is odd to see them struggling this much. I still like my picks of the Jazz and Lakers to win their divisions, and the Spurs to win it all. Right now, I think everybody at ESPN is sweating their Rookie of the Year picks, since there's no clear front-runner. My guy Garbajosa has certainly stumbled out of the gate. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe (Chicago): Chris, I remember when you first started working for ESPN in these chats, you corrected people for their lousy grammar and spelling. Can't you get back to doing that? Chris Sheridan: (12:58 PM ET ) I have since learned to take it easy in the chat room. We try to keeps things a little informal in here. Chris Sheridan: (1:00 PM ET ) That's a chat wrap, folks. Enjoy the holiday next week, and we'll chat again two Fridays from now. What a waste of time, I think he answered 3 legit ? How of any Hawks question to you pick one that everyone who actually cares should know.

Thanks Gutzy. He claim's I am just a troll, but if he just clicked on my name and then could read all my post prior to his existence. Sorry I dont comment on every little topic to get my post up there. Usually I state my peace and sit back and read. However, after his blatent bashing of BK and other things Hawks related, when he infact doesn't even know how long BK has been here, something had to be said. I lvoe he can't even realize he hasnt provided any substance to his arguments, and has been complete torn to shreds. I think its because he doesn't even read my replies when I dont point correct things he has said, and simply replies.

Gee, Sothy I guess I was the only one that see's you flip flop, oh wait nevermind everyone does. Thanks again for Atlanta Spirit group reaching out to the fans. Just got my 3 tickets, see everyone there.

I love Big Baby, but I think he is just like Shel but worse rebounder and defender. We need to get a center, there are 4 or 5 good ones in our 10-24 range that are legit centers. They can back up zaza and if for some reason we cant resign him, he would be the frist to go before, chill, smith, marvin. I like any of the 3 centers I already posted. I just cant imagine a starting 4/5 of Shell and Baby. Shell and a true center is a very scary thought for other teams on the boards and defense.

Honestly I compare him with Zoran Plannic in NJ, shooter taht can pass, but makes bad decisions. I really dont like Euro PG's same with C's. With exception to Tony Parker most dont understand the NBA game. The NBA game is more one on one then their game. Parker knows this and attacks, but it seems most foreign PG's tend to play true basketball, and seem a bit lost in the NBA. Same said for Euro centers until recently, too much fanese, and not enough banging. They can shoot, but most successful Euro guys have been SG, SF, or PF. The only other succesful Euro pg was, damnt drawing a blank for the Nets, but died only 2 years into his career. A lot of this is changing, but as evidence with USA struggles the NBA game isnt true basketball. But to compete in the NBA you have to play it the NBA way.

These are my wish list with this pick: 16 Hasheem Thabeet C 7-3 265 Connecticut Draft Projection: Lottery to mid-first round Similarities: Positives: If Thabeet's the real thing, chances are he won't be sitting around Storrs long. He's huge. Big-time rebounder and shot blocker. Would have games where he had 17 points, 13 boards and 14 blocked shots. Developing offensive game. Has added a nice turnaround jumper. Negatives: He's still very raw, especially offensively. Still learning the game. Summary: If it's possible to have a draft sleeper this early in the draft, then Thabeet is it. His size, athleticism and growing basketball skills have NBA scouts drooling. It may be a couple of years before UConn turns him into a pro, but if he gets any playing time and plays well, he could very well go this high in the draft. 21 Ante Tomic C 7-2 237 19 Croatia Draft Projection: Mid to late first round Positives: He'a a highly skilled big man. Used to be a PG and has excellent ball handling and passing ability. Nice mid range jump shot. Has good footwork around the basket and a variety of low post moves. Good athlete. Negatives: He's rail thin. Needs another 20 pounds on his frame. His lack of strength limits his effectiveness in the post on both ends of the floor. Gets in foul trouble a lot. Summary: Tomic is big time prospect. He has a rare combination of size, skill and athletic ability. But he may be a couple of years away. His body really needs to fill out before he can event think about the NBA. 24 Javaris Crittenton PG 6-5 180 18 Georgia Tech Draft Projection: Mid to late first round Averaged 29 ppg, 7 rpg and 9 apg. Former teammate of Dwight Howard. Positives: Has great size and athleticism for the position. Very competitive. Sees the floor well. Excellent first step allows him to get deep penetration into the paint. Great hands. Rarely mishandles the ball. Vocal leader on the court. Unselfish. Good defender. Negatives: Not a great perimeter shooter, especially from long range. Decision making needs to be improved. Can be a little turnover prone. Needs to add strength. Summary: Reminiscent a little bit of Ronnie Brewer with better point-guard skills. Scouts love big point guards and if Crittenton has a big freshman year alongside Thaddeus Young, he could move way up the charts. 10 Yi Jianlian PF 7-0 230 19 China Lottery Yi is the best Chinese prospect to come to the NBA since Yao. Draft Projection: Lottery Similarities: Yi's skills just might be too good to keep him in Guangdong. Toni Kukoc Notes: Yi's team, the Guangdong Tigers, announced in November 2006 that Yi will be released to enter the 2007 NBA Draft. While he's listed as being born in 1987, many scouts believe that he's actually born in 1984 making him 21 ... not 18. That's a big difference in NBA development terms. Is averaging 20.5 ppg, 9.6 rpg while shooting 57 percent from the field for the Guangdong Tigers this season. Positives: A long, athletic forward who is very skilled. He has long arms and big hands, which allows him to play even bigger than he actually is. Excellent shooter and ball handler. Fundamentally very sound. Excellent basketball IQ. Hard worker. Negatives: Needs to add strength, especially to his upper body. Needs to play more physically. Needs to work on his post-up game. Not a great rebounder or shot blocker. More of a face-the-basket type of four. Summary: Yi is the best Chinese prospect to come to the NBA since Yao. He has a ton of experience playing in international competitions and at the highest level in China. Given his upside and size he could go as high as the Top 5 and is unlikely to slip out of the lottery now that his team has released him to come to the NBA.

Its still early, but look at the draft prospects there are 4 centers ranked 10th - 24th which is the range the Pacers pick could be. http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/...?draftyear=2007 maybe we find Zaza some help for when Lo gets to old, or if we cant resign z his replacement. I love people are already looking at stuff like this, but still didnt like the Al trade, without we are sol this draft.

OK Sothron to agree or disagree, if a player like this that is compared to be Ray Allen, clearly wont be that could but could be a PG for us. Say he falls to us with Ind's pick, is that now getting nothing for Al like you said? You asseration that draft picks are getting nothing was my other point I disagree on. This draft has some talent. If this pick turns out to be someone like this its a win. No Bk didn't know he was going to get this guy or that guy. But just like the sheed trade, it was a deep draft adn he wanted 2 picks. Could have been the 10th pick or 17th, but he got talent, in Smoove. When BK hasnt had a pick not be a solid contributor yet, why is it so hard to believe that we wont get a quality player with this pick. There was no need for Al anyways with Marvin finally showing he was ready. Our defense is better our youngs now get to show their strengths and we may get this guy. I call that a win, when being a FA Al could have walked for nothing.

Click on my name and you can see all post I made. Thats how its so easy to get your quotes. I just have to click and it takes me to all of your post. Its not hard. Also for stats its not hard to type in google bar 2006 mock or predraft and see what comes up I used the first 5 entries. Secondly when reviewing depth charts. Is it that hard to copy and paste a link from espn.com, or to navigate to rotoworld for fantasy stats that still dont back up your point. How am I just a flamer, I started the thread talking bout BK making us Piston like and you jumped on for the debate. You started something you coudlnt finish. Notice who's the createor of that thread. Please look: http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/dosearch....at=0&Forum=,,,,All_Forums,,,,&Words=&Searchpage=4&Limit=25&where=&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&daterange=&bodyprev=&Name=618 look at the Eddy Curry thread the Walker frethrow thread. I was calling for JJ and Salim 3 months before that draft this year. Thats why I have seen BK's plan and I understand it. Im sorry but if you honestly think you have owned me that is the sadest thing I have ever heard.

That and I really want to know how you own me. I have shown you stat, sources, and everything else to rebuff your postion. Other poster have laughed at you and called you a clown. I have legitmately gone through point by point even detailing finances till 2010. Your entire argument every post is, well my opinion is, I know we could do this or that, you dont know. My whole problem with you is you call out Bk for being awful yet you love his moves. 1) You say Chilldress was a bad pick, yet later he should start for half the league. I want to know what % of number 5 picks are starters 5 years later. Any time you draft a starter its a good pick. How many top 3 picks have never panned out. Drafts are land mines with uncertainty of who well or wont pan out, the fact that every single BK pick has become an impact player in the NBA speaks enough on talent evaluation. 2) Now you say if Zaza improves he will command all this money. Who saw something in Zaza signed him for a 4 yr deal for peanuts when he was a RFA. His own team didnt know what they had. Now we have a 22 yr old starting center that is more then capable for basically nothing. 3) He gets JJ in here. The trade which a lot of people whine about is now after last years draft protection, Diaw and what may end up being the 19th or 20th pick in the draft. Even ESPN who hates BK, hollinger, Ford, and Stein said this week in the Daily Dime that JJ was worth every penny. 4) Your only hatered for BK is picking Marvin over Deron, and then Salim over Monta. So if Marvin plays like every NBA scout feels and makes multiple all-star games you are splitting apples between Deron and him. So now your hatered is based on a second rd pick which at the time everyone said was the steal of the draft. Cmon, you may not like some of his discission but dont go bashing him when, a) you dont even know how long he has been here and b) he has actually turned the team around. If this was a debate 95% of your arguement wouldnt even be heard because you have to able to substaniate your points.

Oh Sothy, I am not under any other name I have post that go back to 2004 under here. I usually just read and laugh. I know you were asking about how long he had been here. That was my whole point, you are supposed long time Hawk fan. Yet you dont know when the GM and regime changed? Thats funny. It helps to base your judgemnet on the actual time frame a guy has been in charge. So until last week you didnt even know how long BK had been here. Next point about him not winning 30 games. So his first year he had to completely undo Babcocks crap you cant honestly use the players Babcock had brought here against BK. Thats like saying if BK were fired tomorrow that his predaccesor should be held for next years suad with these players. So now we are looking at 2 years of data, one of which a locker room guy dies a week before the season causing a 2-17 start, yet the team still wins 26. Lastly, BK doesnt coach. I am a huge fan of what BK has done getting the talent in here, but he doesnt coach the team which is a big sticking point of mine. Notice I have never defended Woody. Coaching and GM'ing are two totally diffrent subjects. I feel witha better coach last year we win 38 or so. The talent is here thats all you can ask for from BK. He got Woody the talent that should be winning 40 this year. BK also cant take the shots for the players, without some poor shot attempts from players this year we are 6-1. Like I just said BK doesnt coach or play, his job is to get the talent here. Which he has done. I am the biggest BK supporter I see his vision, and I agree with most of his moves. Notice I never stepped up for the Ivey pick, but I look over 2nd round picks, they are the biggest crap shoot. I never once have stood up for Woody.

LOL @ Sothron: Talk about all time call outs: You seem to think he was pretty bad, looks like at least Ford admits it when he says I might have been wrong. All quotes from last weeks thread. Quote: Why not? He's 6'9" and can play either forward spot and can't pass. He'd be a perfect Knight lottery pick. Mrhonline, you'll have to excuse me I expect more out of our general manager than "Well he didn't pick the absolute worst pick every single year, just near the bottom every year". When you have a general manager in what six years? seven? that can't put together a team that can surpass thirty wins more than deserves firing. yep guess we should fire him for all 7 of those years, oops only been there 3. Quote: Knight has been here 2002. That is more than enough time to produce something more than the slideshow of 6'9" wunderkinds who can't even win thirty games. As Texas Pete and myself have said previously this man has blown picks by taking decent players when we could have had much better. Mrhonline, I did not say the Joshes and Marvin were the absolute worst picks. Reread my post prior to this one. I said that just because he did NOT make the absolute worst picks does not mean he should be kept. If peddling mediocrity is sufficient for most of you then Pete Babcock never should have been fired. Pete at least managed to put together 50+ win teams to his credit. Using the new Hawks fans criteria that should put him somewhere between God and Jesus. Last week you were in favor of the old Babcock days lol Quote: We as fans should demand more than a bottom five general manager. Yep sorry that bottom 5 GM led us from nothing to hope for something. Quote: Yes, I'd rather have taken a chance on POB than settling on an undersized and old (for a rookie) 23 year old with limited upside. You want a list of good general managers? Jerry West tops that category. Greg Popavich would be second. Don Nelson Jr or whoever runs Dallas would be third. I love the job Charlotte has done in the draft and Orlando has two young studs in the making with Howard and Nelson. The Bucks GM has done a good job and isn't scared to make trades to bring in better talent. Jerry Colangelo is off to a good start in Toronto. The Phoenix GM is good. The Nets guy, Rod Thorpe? doesn't get enough credit. Kiki Vanderweighe did a good job in Denver. Joe Dumars has been very good in Detroit. I can keep going here. There's at least twenty general managers in the NBA I would list above BK without breaking a sweat. The only GM I can categorically put below Knight is Isiah Thomas. Then he was the 2nd worst GM in the league. Quote: So at what point of passing over better players does BK need to reach in order for him to be fired? What's the magic number here? We've already seen Paul, Felton, Deron, Roy, Foye, Gay, Ellis, Deng, Igoudala (sp?) and who knows who else in just the last two seasons. Knight will remain as long as the Atlanta Spirit is fighting wtih Belkin. Which may last until next season. I guess every other GM that passed on Ellis should be fired too uh? I guess since BK is the only guy in all 4 drafts to get starting talent, without missing one, yep he should be gone. I remind you of other GM drafts. Quote: We need a real point guard that can pass, defend and shoot. So far Lue is doing a nice job in that role but he's better coming off the bench. This is where I think we are really missing passing on Deron Williams who fits my criteria to a "T" and that's about it for this season. Next year we will have to choose between Smoove or Chill since one (or both) will be leaving. Too bad thats 2 years. Quote: Call it a slow day at work, but just to show what we are saying by picks better GM, here are teams drafts for 2003,2004,2005 since the 2006 rookies havent played enough to judge they will not be included. The teams are ranked in avg. pick number. This only includes 1st rounders. SO logically the teams with the lower draft postion should be worse picks. Those at the top of the list have had picks of better caliber players. Avg Pick 1) 4.5 Mil- 8)TJ Ford, 1)Andrew Bogut 2) 5.5 Cle- 1)Lebron James, 10)Luke Jackson 3) 5.6 Chi- 7)Kirk Hinrich, 3)Ben Gordon, 7)Loul Deng 4) 6.6 Cha- 2)Emkea Okafor, 5)Raymond Felton,13)Sean May 5) 7.3 LAC- 6)Kaman, 4) Livingston, 12)Yaraslov Korolev 6) 8.5 NYK- 9)Frye, 8)Sweetney 7) 8.8 Tor- 4)Bosh, 8)Arajuo, 7)Villenueva, 16)J. Graham 8) 9 Phi- 9)Iguedola 9) 10 Was- 10)Jarvis Hayes 10) 10.3 GST- 11)Pietrus, 11)Biedrinis, 9)Diogiu 11) 11.8 Atl- 22)Boris, 6)Chill, 17)Smoove, 2)Marvin 12) 12 Orl- 16)R. Gains, 1)Howard, 20)Nelson, 11)Vazquez 13) 13.3 Uta- 20)Pavlovic, 14)Humphries, 16)Snyder, 3)Deron 14) 13.6 NO - 19)West, 18) JR Smith, 4) Paul 15) 16 Sea- 12)Collison, 15)Ridnour, 12)Swift, 25)Petro 16) 16.6 Den- 3)Melo, 20)Julis Hodge, 27) Linos Kleiza 17) 17.6 Mia- 5)Wade, 19)Dorell Wright, 29)Wayne Simon 18) 18 Det- 2)Darko, 26)Delfino, 26)Jason Maxell 19) 18.3 Por- 24)Outlaw, 13)Telfair, 22)Khyrpa, 23)Monia, 6)Jack, 22)Martell Wbster 20) 18.6 Dal- 30)Howard, 5)Harris, 21)Pavel Podkolzine 21) 19 NJN- 23)Zoran Planic 22) 19.5 PHX- 18)Cabarkaba, 21)Nate Robinson 23) 20 Bos- 17)T. bell, 21)D. Jones, 15)Jefferson, 18)Green, 24) West, 25) Allen 24) 20.3 Mem- 14)Banks, 28)Perkins, 19)Warrick 25) 20.5 Min- 27)Nbudi Ebi, 14)Rashd McCants 26) 20.6 LAL- 25)Cook, 27)Vujaecic, 10)Bynum 27) 23 Ind- 29)Harrison, 17)Granger 28) 24 Hou- 24) Luther Head 29) 24.5 Sac- 26) Kevin Martin, 23) F. Garcia 30) 28.3 SA- 29)Barbosa, 28) Udrih, 28) Ian Mahiuni Have fun but name 5 teams with better total picks, not just one guy cause they had a high pick and then compare that years pick wtih Atl. Name 5 teams with better drafts. PLEASE. I will give you with avg picks worse then ours Dal, NO, and Utah have done better. Quote: We need a real point guard that can pass, defend and shoot. So far Lue is doing a nice job in that role but he's better coming off the bench. This is where I think we are really missing passing on Deron Williams who fits my criteria to a "T" and that's about it for this season. Next year we will have to choose between Smoove or Chill since one (or both) will be leaving. Too bad thats 2 years. I can go on all day and make you look like a fool, its kind of fun.

Please go back and ACTUALLY read the link I posted with our thread. I never said Chill wouldnt start in your original list I even gave you two of your teams and agreed, from the get go. My point thats why even went back and pulled the quote, I conceeded from the beginning that he could start for 3-4 teams. My point was just like Prince who could start for 3 or 4 teams that thier postion if overloaded with draft picks that teams want to see get better or other FA's. Prince could start for probably 7 or 8 teams and he only recieved 5 mill a year. So now Chill who is marginally less or the same player to him and only saying start for 3 or 4 teams why are teams all of a sudden going to pay through the roof. I never said once he shouldnt start for 3 or 4 teams. It is extremely evident that you dont even read, but just skim through my post. I factored in signing mid tier complimentary FA's in my scenario. Secondly the reason I never posted was this reason right here. You [censored] bout BK not drafting well, then you say his draft pick will be the envy of the FA world, and are worried bout keeping a team togther in 2 years. I usually sit back and keep quite, but you sir seriously needed to be called out. Thats why 4 posters on the topic tried to show you your error in logic and flip flopping opinions. I'm not doubting you being a fan, but to sit there and ridacule a man that was given basically a situation like the KNicks with aging veterans, and no cap room. Then waste a year stripping it all down, and then in 3 years has the team looking good to make possible a playoff run if not keep it intresting and a young core of guys to build off of with cap space. You insane. BK hasnt had the luxury of getting picks like Lebron, Howard, or the such. His first draft in rebuilding was the 22nd pick. You are the fan that whines when we are losing, yet cant see the progress. Then doesnt give any credit when we start winning.

So your agrument is proven invalid and you resort to calling me cupcake. Lets review, or you should do your hw before talking. Note all major FA would not be until 2008 hopefully, it does not take 2 years to settle the owner mess. If we can start winning in Hawks or Thrashers and creating revenue I believe these owners would invest more money. They are Atlanta sports fans and do care about the teams. But in this assumption we wont even factor that in. Atlanta Hawks Date # of total Player signed years salary misc FA Esteban Batista ....... 9/12/05 2 ??? '07 Cedric Bozeman ........ 9/29/06 1 minimum '07 Matt Freije ........... 9/29/06 1 minimum '07 Royal Ivey ............ 10/3/04 3 $1.95 million '07 Josh Childress ........ 7/12/04 4 $11,662,931 rc '08 Solomon Jones ......... 7/12/06 2 minimum t-opt '08 Tyronn Lue ............ 8/24/05 3 ??? '08 Josh Smith ............ 7/12/04 4 $6,339,623 rc '08 Salim Stoudamire ...... 8/24/05 3 ??? '08 Lorenzen Wright ....... 8/30/06 2 $6 million '08 Zaza Pachulia ......... 8/8/05 4 $16 million '09 Marvin Williams ....... 7/12/05 4 $18,160,542 rc t-opt '09 Speedy Claxton ........ 7/12/06 4 $25 million '10 Joe Johnson ........... 8/19/05 5 $70 million '10 Shelden Williams ...... 7/10/06 4 $13,825,268 rc t-opt '09+10 http://www.dfw.net/%7Epatricia/contracts Note the salary cap has been growing at about a 8% clip per year since 2002. There fore we have until 2008 to worry bout the Josh's. JJ and Speedy are locked up until 2010. That gives us 2-4 years with this core. We are currently at $39.6 million against the cap. So growing the salary cap at 8% that gives in 2008 a rough guess at the cap at $61.98 million. Note JJ's and Speedy's contracts actually decrease over time. So assuming we sign several of the role guys back like freije maybe bose, to the minimum. Grant you we sign maybe a mid level FA next year and our draft pick. Factor all that in with JJ and Speedy's decreasing salary. can we reasonable say in 2008 your salary is roughly $47 or $48 million??? That being mostly money on the draft picks. We can also assume with the development of Jones and Shel, that LO at his age will prob not be retained. So now we are talking about $45 million for 2008 budget. That gives us almost $19 million to resign Chill and Smith. Say Chill gets a deal simialar to Prince which is giving him a lot of credit. Tayshaun Prince ....... 9/2/02,10/31/05 4+5 $4,541,153+$48 mill '11 We can then assume that with inflation that deal in 2008 probably becomes 6.5 million in year one? Is that not about what most starters get, not stars but starters. So that takes us to 12.5 million for Smoove. Assuming he gets which would still be on the ridiculously high side of $9 million. I am being generous here to show you what is realistic. it will probably be less. So now at the end of 2008 we have $3.5 million under the cap. Now if the cap continues to grow i will even slow it down for you at 5%. So the new cap of 65 million. We have almost 7 million plus the exception for Zaza. So we could concieveable have our core signed through 2010. Im hoping somewhere in that 4 years we draft a PG to groom to take over for Speedy. So now you have him inserted and lose Speedy's contract in 2010. Keep in mind all the while Speedy and JJ's contracts descend giving more money each year which I am contributing to signing role players and smaller draft picks. Then in 2010 Speedy and JJ's contracts come off. You can use the money from Speedy's deal to toss at JJ on top of what he is making thus making it a max deal. How hard is it to see that it is completely concivable to sign our guys still get smaller tier FA's and our draft picks for the next 4 seasons. You see this young group gelling now, give it 3 years of hopeful winning basketball. All of this without exceeding the salary cap. Funny how when you do your homework you can actually prove a point.

Been a member since 04' so no not KB, but funny how you dont read. igave you he could start for 3 or 4 teams. What I said was at his postion teams aren't going to throw thje kind of money at him that we couldnt match. There are too many talented players at that postion. I also posted the quote of how its harder to find a glue guy then a star. I showed you compared to the draft behind him Chill is equal or better then most every other pick, I cant help the draft didnt have any superstars after the top 2. Go back and read this, I love Chill, and thats why I want him. The whole debate was you saying a team would toss so much money at him to start we wouldnt be able to keep him. My point is I said look below for quote that he could start for 3 or 4 teams. But how many SG's become FA every year to fill those 3 or 4 openings. We havent gone crazy in cap space so we do have room to resign our core guys. Quote: no thats my point I am giving you 3 or 4 teams. But with so few teams looking for a guy like that and multiple guys at that postion it is highly unlikely that he gets an offer we cant match. Quote: See thats the real funny part you mention charlotte, but there starting back court is brevin knight and raymond felton. The exact guy you say we missed, and thus us havinga bad pick. So now you have him replacing a guy or upgrading a guy you used to say would have been a better pick later on by BK. Do you even think before you type, I just covered your first list. Your also list included boston which would be paul pierce. need i go on. You mention luther Head and kirk snyder, funny they are on the same team and they are 3rd and 4th on the rockets depth charts. So yeh i think chill could be better then them, but we were looking for starters. tmac and bonzi are ahead of of those guys on their own team. Wait is that another team that can hold on to 4 guys that are 6-6 to 6-9, tmac at the 2, bonzi, battier, howard. funny i see more and more teams built like the hawks. all by gm's u say are better the bk but they are doing the same thing. you are the king of changing your stance. earlier it was upgrading from a d to a c now its a c or b to b or a. Damn that bad pick with so many other options is going to be an all-star by the end of the night when you keep changing. I lvoe Chill cause he allows us to have that depth we need to run. Love him to death. But I am just showing your flip flop arguments, and why will be able to keep him. the same reason detriot kept prince. other teams arent ging to through more then 5 or 6 million a year to a guy at a spot they either have filled or have projects they want to work out. Thats not saying chill and prince are bad, they are key for their teams, but other teams dont give them tons of money to leave. Just a fact. Last paragraph my point in a nut shell.