GoDawgs21

Like the thread says lets not get ahead of ourselves. I would love a win, but this is a road game, and the Raps beat Philly @ home the other night. I believe they also beat Dallas, dont have time to check.

Always 310 row c

Northcyde can I give you hug. I mean that in the most nonhomo way possible. Soth has got under my skin and these are the exact points I have tried to make to him, but I'll admit most of the time I get so upset I go into a tangent. There is room to sign all these guys, there is time before that, and how can you label someone a "bad pick" and yet have him as a starter in the league. You want to talk about bad picks go back to the Babcock admin. How many top 6 picks are still starters in the league 5 years later. I am willing to bet its less then 60%. Yes there may have been someone marginally better. But to draft a starter or valuble contributor off the bench is invaluable. Even if for nothing else the trade value he may command in his FA year. You most certainly will get a 1st rd pick for a guy like that. There will always be one or two players drafted lower that turn out being a little bit better but guess what if you get drafted at the 27 spot 26 gm's passed on you, not jsut one guy. This is my final shot on this issue. I just dont see how you can call someone a "bad pick" then turn around and say he could be a starter for most teams in the league. He may not have been the best pick, but he wasnt a bad pick. If you want a bad pick look at the 8 pick he might not even be in the league in a year. Anytime you can draft a guy that starts or is a valuble cog, thats a victory. We went what 7 drafts under Babcock and didnt draft one starter. We get now 5 players in 5 picks that wither are starters, significant contributers avg 9/8 as the 6th man, or as some say coveted FA's in a few years. As a long time Hawks fan to imagine we could ever draft 5 guys that anybody would want is amazing. Before you go and say well look at when we picked. Babcock had his share of top 5 picks and still never drafted a starter. BK's avg pick is 11.6 or the 12th pick. Thats 2 spots from being out of the lotto. Like I posted the other day with that list, name one GM in the past drafts that BK is in that hasnt got at least one dud. That dud is what we always got, now we have something of value, hustling player, scorer, contributor, or even value on the market in a trade. Wither you like the pick or not we are 5 for 5 in getting talent that matters and havent had a wasted pick. Not to many other GM's can say that.

just so you can get it out of your silly little head, you keep bringing up luther head, even the depth charts you showed me dont have him starting. Look at the box score from last night or any game this year. TMac and Pejas play the role of starting 2 guard. With Battier and Mason play the respective 3 spots on those rosters. That's why I gave you the benefit of the doubt in my previous response and listed the atarting 2's and 3's for each team you gave to show he prob wouldnt start over any of them. Notice in the box score you boy Luther head who you mention over and over plays Chill same roel getting 29-30 minutes of the bench. Still not starting. So now which 2 teams were going to be fighting over our bad pick to give him tons of money when guys like Prince dont even get offered that much. I love Chill and he is vital to our team, but he isnt the type of player that gets lured away by a huge contract. http://www.sportsline.com/nba/gamecenter/b...0061108_HOU@MIL

no thats my point I am giving you 3 or 4 teams. But with so few teams looking for a guy like that and multiple guys at that postion it is highly unlikely that he gets an offer we cant match.

See thats the real funny part you mention charlotte, but there starting back court is brevin knight and raymond felton. The exact guy you say we missed, and thus us havinga bad pick. So now you have him replacing a guy or upgrading a guy you used to say would have been a better pick later on by BK. Do you even think before you type, I just covered your first list. Your also list included boston which would be paul pierce. need i go on. You mention luther Head and kirk snyder, funny they are on the same team and they are 3rd and 4th on the rockets depth charts. So yeh i think chill could be better then them, but we were looking for starters. tmac and bonzi are ahead of of those guys on their own team. Wait is that another team that can hold on to 4 guys that are 6-6 to 6-9, tmac at the 2, bonzi, battier, howard. funny i see more and more teams built like the hawks. all by gm's u say are better the bk but they are doing the same thing. you are the king of changing your stane. earlier it was upgrading from a d to a c now its a c or b to b or a. Damn that bad pick with so many other options is going to be an all-star by theend of the night when you keep changing. I lvoe Chill cause he allows us to have that depth we need to run. Love him to death. But I am just showing your flip flop arguments, and why will be able to keep him. the same reason detriot kept prince. other teams arent ging to through more then 5 or 6 million a year to a guy at a spot they either have filled or have projects they want to work out. Thats not saying chill and prince are bad, they are key for their teams, but other teams dont give them tons of money to leave. Just a fact.

I need to do HW, please use this to do YOUR HW. I will give you the link to Houston's, but as the starting depth chart g/f in sg postion is Tmac. So why dont you look at something before you speak. I used these exact depth charts to use for my names. Next, Chill is a more natural 3 or the G/F position since he isnt as quick as most 2's to guard on defense. Thus he is a decent g/f but to call him a sg is a stretch. You were the one that said someone would give him a shot at the SG. So there for his skills are a bit deminshed as a 2. Stevenson, yeh defensive stopper. Yeh had 18 and 4 tonight. What's Chillz career high they play the same roles over the year. But please go through team by team on this depth chart list before you try and call me out. Cause sir you are wrong. But thats about par for the course for you the past several days. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/depth?team=hou I am not calling Chill a bust either i think for the talent that was in that draft he was picked in the right spot, him iggy, and deng are toss ups. i feel he was a fine pick. youhave flip flopped from him being a bad pick, to being lured away to start else where. now pplease look at these depth charts and put on your dunce cap and be quiet.

You said we passed on all-stars. I can play your game I think Smith and Marvin have shown talent they could be all-stars. But have they been all-stars. NO. Your points contradict themselves, first chillz is a bad pick, then he could start for half the teams in the league. I want you to go back and see what % of number 6 picks are starters in the league 5 years later. there are so many top 5 picks that dont become starters. So which is it, is he a horrbile pick or is he an nba starter??????? You act like Theo and Shariff were key cogs and amazing players. Shariff has made 1 all-star game and 1 playoff apprence when he was a 6th man backing up weber and miller. Notice when he starts no playoffs. did these guys make there new teams better when they got there??? Thats cause they were propped up stars. It wasnt like we traded an Elton Brand away or something. My next question is if we had all this talent why didnt we make the playoffs??? You act like we were the Florida Marlins in 1998 and just dismantled and traded all of our talent away. Oh wait they trade all the old high priced vets for picks and cap space how did that work out again, oh they got younger got dontrelle and other key guys they wnated to build around in the draft and then went and won antoher. geee, i see a formula here. We were a 40 win not going to the playoffs team for 3 years with those guys. So its not like we broke up a dynasty. We broke up some old vets that couldnt make it to the playoffs to get younger and regroup in 3 to 4 years im sorry your not as patient as others, but you haveto give it time.

LOL did you even look at the teams you listed. You make it so easy it isnt even any fun, so our busted pick is better then these starting g/f for these teams New Orleans - So now Chill a busted pick by you is better then David West, desmon mason, or Peja Washington- has deshawn stevenson, caron butler or Jarvis hayes houston - tmac and battier (are you kidding me you have our busted [pick being better then tmac or battier) lol denver - carmelo anthony at the g/f spot or jr smith orlando - grant hill or turgaglo (look at his stats) inda - stephen jackson and granger (maybe i see this one, but granger came on huge last year) sacramento - ron artest and kevin martin (picked by espn as th number 1 breakout canidate) toronto with mo pe i can see SO YOU ARE SAYING A BUSTED PICK IS BETTER THEN EVERYONE ON THIS LIST LOLOLOLOLO, hold on fell down gotta get up, if Chillz is better then half of this list I will say in the draft he was in he was the biggest steal ever. You got him better then Peja, Artest, tmac and battier. how at that rate we should get a top player and a 1st rd for chill the year before FA so i suggest we trade him and get that value

Now onto your second question (you see unlike you I back stuff up wtih actual facts, you still havent answered a single question from my thread yesterday not one) and now i ask to name one all-star we missed and you havent. To have a debate and to acknowledge your views i need responses and facts. Not uh I like that GM, then I show you he did what BK is doing and you go another direction. What you are discussing with the players as a D grade vs a C grade, does happen. This happens mostly to big guys cause there is so few. your flaw is that sg/sf is the most talented position in the nba. right now before i respsond anymore go through the league and name 2 starting g/f that chill is better then. teams over pay for major upgrades they dont pay big money to go from d to c. they pay to go from d to a like we did with JJ. So name 2 guys that start for teams that chill would be taken over for starters. the 2/3 is the deepest postion in the league. so teams might pay big for guys like redd, allen, etc. very few of these spots become available each year because it is so deep, and many teams lock these guys up. Just like mentioned Prince is probably a top 10 guy at that spot. he was named early on espn as a top 50 player in the league and he didnt get wooed by anyone. so if chill is supposed prince "like" who is gong to pay him big. But please name two guys chill starts over right now that teams would make a move for him and give him startin min and points. You also say he didnt know about JJ, correct sir. But its hard to sign any free agents when you are over thea cap. No he didnt know he woudl get him, but he did know he had money to go get a top FA. Say in two years we are god willing able to sign Howard, did we know that no, but if we didnt getrid of the bad contracts, you woudlnt even be able to make a move when he is available.

1) You can't call a draft pick getting nothing. Say by soe fluke Ind. ends up in the lotto, and we somehow (i know this is a stretch) but the ping pong balls boucne right and we get the 1st pick and get Oden. would that be getting nothing for Al. NO. Picks are a form of collateral. No you dont know exactly who you are goign to get, but if it appears to be a deep draft you can draft guys you want to build your team around. Perfect example. Chicago gave up Curry for picks. So in your mind paxson got fleeced he got nothing tangible for him. What a dumb ass. Oh wait NY prob will have the most ping pong balls this year. So say the GM job you love the most gets into the playoffs this year and then gets the top pick ala Detriot several years ago for darko. So then a playoff team gets Oden. Thats not getting nothing thats called GM'ing. We got Smoove yes, but that was a deep draft and that gave us 2 top picks in a deep draft. This goes to my other question you have failed to answer. SO WHERE WERE WE GOING WITH SAR AND THEO? We were a constant 40 win non-playoff team. Going nowhere with no future of getting younger and couldnt sign anyone with our cap room. So what did yu want for them? Its easy to play this guy and that guy, but what team is going to give up a major player for aging overpaid talent. yep, im sure we could have gotten jason kidd for sar and ray allen for theo. Cmon each was a one time all-star with blotted contracts. Nobody wants that. So BK sees we are in cap hell and have vetern players goin nowhere. So you need to get younger, how do you do that? You build your team how you want throught the draft. So getting cap space and 2 picks in a deep draft was smart. What if that pick turned out to be Dwight howard. yes he didnt know he was getting smoove, but he knew he was getting a high pick. that he could turn into a young version of what he wanted. This draft is full of PG, so if we end up with say the 14th pick from Indianaand get a pg we can groom to take over after speedy, and he becomes a good pg i guess we got nthing for al too uh. Your argument is what i take advantage of all day long looking for real estate deals. You see a plot of land as trees and nothing but a waste of earth. I see in three years a shopping center with a major anchor tenant, making my returns then. So you pass on that land and be content to make your 5% intrest on your money in a cd (keeping old guys staying at 40 win no playoff seasons), I'll spend the money(sar,theo, etc) for my return the land to fix up(picks), build the land up, and im left making a 10% IRR and smoking your cd. Thanks for playing the game.

Non, they were showing him shooting one hand j's in warmups last night on tv.

Gee Sothy, guess it wasnt jsut me that saw your flawed logic. Hurts when all three of us unknowing, type the same information to disprove your idea of us getting nothing. Maybe we are on to something . Just honestly look at what we have just said, and say your arent more excited about this team then that of JT,BD,SAR, Theo and Ira. That team was going nowhere. You cant completely tear down a team and change gears without expecting 2 or 3 years. Call me the ultimate optimist. But I honestly think we woudl have turned a bit of a corner and maybe won 30 or 33 games last year had it not been for the tragic loss of JC. No I'm not talking bout on court presence. But if a close friend and coworker of yours dies suddenly right before work, how long would it take you to get over it. Seeing his locker everyday being in the same room. He was our clubhouse jokester. That had a huge impact on our 2-15 start, whcih in turn had a huge impact on our final record. People gloss over this and blame Woody, but how many guys can deal with the death of a teammate the week before tip-off.

Thats about it FQ, I left out the Henderson trade since it didnt effect the Smoove deal, I was just looing at what SAR and Theo got us. Now Soth is going to say well we gave up JT. Yeh we also got rid of Hendu's max contract no team would take that without getting something, something being JT. If you dont move Henderson you can't get JJ in here either. So yes you have to give up good pieces to get good pieces. Its not NBA Live you cant trade Henderson for Shaq, no matter what any GM trading with Zeke in NY will tell you. You act like we were amazing with SAR and Theo. We didnt make the playoffs for the 3 years they were here. So if in the 3 years JJ and Smooth are togther this or next we make the playoffs id say thats a winning trade. Speaking of bending over and raping in a trade. The Hawks sent Pau Gasol a perinal all-star and cornerstone in Memphis (see them now tihout him in the lineup) for SAR a one time all-star. Geee, I wonder who pulled that off. Oh wait that Billy Knight guy. In response to your post earlier, no im not happy wtih watching all teh losing, but I could see the team growing. I knew when BK came in it might be 3 or 4 years. You cant strip down a team with the contracts we had and rebuild over night. So I knew there was a plan. All I wanted to see was progress and that made me happy. I want you to watch the Knicks rebuild. They like us were a vetern team witha bunch of has beens, that couldnt make the playoffs. We had 4 guys with almost max contracts and didnt make the playoffs for 3 years. Now we are well under the cap have a young core to build around. See how long it takes the next guy to rebuild NY after Zeke, and that will be even having MSG the mecca of bball to draw players to. Try getting a rebuilding job done in a city that has no true fans, or history. Id say getting this pointed in the right direction in 3 years is pretty f'n good job.

What All-star have we missed. You can say Paul will make it this year. If Marvin makes it this year then that is your Toronto scenario. Bosh didnt make it until his 3rd year last year, and Wade in his 2nd. But what other All-Star has BK missed. Name just one guy that has been in an all-star game we missed.

Clearly you are about as dumb as you come across in your flip flopping post. Lets do a little connect the dots. First many have stated that we are far better on defense without Al. I forever could not see this addition by subtraction. But I admit I was wrong. Allowing only 87 pts per game, and not having the ball goin in and not coming out is freeing up the offense. While some players put up good numbers they just dont fit certain teams. So we trade SAR and Theo to Portland for Rasheed. This frees up mega cap room seeing how we were over the salary cap. We then trade Sheed to Det. for a pick. That pick becomes Smith. The cap room, + 2 picks. (Which really became 1 since last years was lottery protected), and Boris become JJ. So lets talk about getting fleeced and bent over. SAR+Theo+1pick+boris = Smith,JJ, and cap space for FA. We get rid of two older guys, who each made one all-star game. That were making way to much money for their skill set. Are aging now and not being much of factors on their teams. Plus 1 pick that if we do well wont even be in the lottery. For two young possible cornerstones of the franchise. Yeh I take that. Then your Al trade we move him to allow for your young players to play. So like you said we dont want lotto picks sitting on the bench. Also who could have left for nothing, he was an UFA. We get a pick back in this draft. So we move a rental that was in place until Smith and company got old enough, and lets face it was going to walk anyways, for our spot back in this draft. This negates the pick in the above scenrio, and you cant count losing Al since he was a FA. So in essence BK gave up SAR+Theo+Boris=JJ,Smith. Yeh I def. take that. Let me know if you cant follow.

I think they all becamse real close in the summer on the US team. From what I remember in the article tehy aren't hanging out all the time during the season, clearly, but are going to try and vacation and stuff togther this coming off season. Kinda like Charles, Tiger, and MJ.

So your logic is that Deng and Iggy woudlnt leave their teams, but Chill and Smith would. What if Iggy and and Deng get replaced and move to the bench? You what if's are too funny. So let me get this straight yesterday from you BK makes bad picks and you think he is bottom 10 GM in the league. Then last night you havent been happier with a team in awhile. Then today Chill and Smith will up and leave. Oh, and my personal favorite is you say you love certain GM's and what they have done.Tthen I show you that two of those GM's have built championship teams with 4 or more top tier f's and you ignore that.

My point about you saying better players is this. Since they all were drafted at the same time they all hit the market within a year or two depending on the extensions they take. So if you think Iggy, Deng, and those guys are better who are teams going to throw more money at. So using your evalution of talent you think if you are the third best option in your position you will be commanding large FA deals??????? There usually arent to many teams each year that need to fill a starting viod and using your logic these other two players will have first crack. This is where my point was if you think that he will be lured away and start he must be equal or better then those guys. So which is it, either he is equal and then might get lured away, or is he not the best talent at that time which means we can probably resign him for a reasonable deal. Secondly, uh news flash Smith is STARTING. He started last year too. He is a starter so how can you say he will want to be a starter? We have made him the face of the franchise almost since he is an Atl guy. He is seen as one of Atlanta fans. He wants to take THIS franchise to big things. So if we offer him a long term deal to be a Hawk which was his dream that is compareable to other offers you dont think he will stay. So that takes care of the Joshs. Maevin and Sheldon are in subsaquent years so there are ways to structure deals to fit them all under the cap. Im just saying other teams that have won championships even two that you pointed out yesterday as your favorite gm jobs have built teams that won rings around 4 or more f's. We build around them and Joe, and you can sign or develop future draft picks at the pg and C. (I know your next argument is BK doesnt draft those guys) Maybe his foundation is set with guys he likes and now he pick for position in the next few drafts.

So now we are back to losing Soth. According to you and most Squawkers Chill and Shelden are bust and wont make starters. The point is avg 28 minutes a game is close to starter time to put up starter numbers. We have enough room to sign them all to nice deals. Especially with JJ's being front loaded we actually get more and more cap space each year. Secondly, the rolls will probably be defind as marvin and Smith starting. Then Shelden and Chill being mixed in till they all get about equal time. I love how you choose you basis for arguments. First are f's werent the best picks, and there were better players at Chills postion. Now in this argument they apprently are going to be monster FA that everyone will be chasing and throwing money at. Make up your mind?

Diesel, cmon now lets not be silly. If you honestly think Chill and Smoove are the same. LOL. You think Shelden and Chill are the same. LOL Chill was almost 50% from 3 last year. You think Shelden can do that. Lets look at Shelden banging with Gooden last night. You think Chillz wouldnt get run over by Gooden like the French by the Germans. Cmon now just look at their builds and you tell they all have diffrent skill sets.

From the Sportsguy on ESPN: What does JJ have to do I know we had this discussion last week about elite or not. But CMON, when you are one of 4 players to avg 20 pts, 5 ast, 4 rebs per game last year.(The other 3 being Kobe,Lebron, and Wade). I think he has done more on actual play then CP do get on this list. MY 10 FAVORITE RANDOM STORY LINES OF THE SEASON SO FAR (OTHER THAN VLAD RADMANOVIC INEXPLICABLY DECIDING TO START WEARING TRAVOLTA'S WIG FROM "WELCOME BACK KOTTER") 1. The New Rat Pack Sports Illustrated's fawning, masturbatory puff piece/cover story/PR release about LeBron, Carmelo and Wade was good for one thing: the revelation that those three young players have formed a hangout group called "Our Family" with Chris Paul and Joe Johnson. Apparently they hang out and stuff. And I can see how Paul gets an invite, but Joe Johnson? Joe Johnson??? Who invited him? More importantly, if this were the Rat Pack, LeBron is Sinatra (the leader), Wade is Dean Martin (coolest guy on the group), Joe Johnson is Peter Lawford (in other words, why is he even here?), and maybe you could even talk me into 'Melo being Sammy Davis Jr. But Chris Paul as Joey Bishop??? I'm not seeing it. They may need to replace him with Jalen Rose.

Please expound on why they would be leaving. They are extended for two more years, and we have purposely left so much room under the cap so we can resign them. We dont want a PHX and let JJ get away because we cant afford someone. If you are thinking of trading them please read my first post on here, on why we shouldnt trade any of them. We have 4 guys that can be Top 15 at their positions playing 28 minutes a piece wearing down opposing defenses. It is this depth (notice not glut), but depth that lets us run like you want to with fresh legs, get rebs late with fresh legs (how many big boards did Chill get down the stretch last night), and most importantly play the d we are playing. You cant expect 2 guys to play 40 minutes running and gunning and tehn get back on D its just impossible. Wait, I retract that, unless your intials are JJ and liked to be called daddy.

That was my point. Everyone bitches about drafting all these F's, but it seems to be working for other teams. I wouldn't call Billups a typical PG with all those F's in Det. I think a team built with a lot of talent and depth at the F spots is the new NBA. I think we can win and be succesful because of this. I do understand and can see Diesel's point that he would like some deversity, but thats where JJ,Speedy, and Salim come in. If on a given night we for some reason arent getting out of those guys we have some diversty, but i can see what you are saying.

I wish this said Congrat Nick, but under the circumstances I think it works.