GoDawgs21

Sothy you crack me up. So you say mid teens and you bring me the earliest prediction that doesnt even factor in senior years, or what teams need close to the draft after trades made, and its still 12th. So ok using yours. Thats 7 teams to trade with. Still dont know what big man would have been takin ahead of him. But in a draft that isnt deep no team traded up because they didnt think they would get enough value in return for what they were giving up. If you think a guy will fall to you that will help you, why trade up. I'm sure you knew we could get a first rd and move down and still get Shel, wish we all knew that. Way to find one sight that has it at 12, guess the 5 i should are all wrong, sorry I'll talk to the writers see why they didnt consult you. Sorry ESPN isn't a credible enough source, sorry actual boxscores from CBSSPORTSLINE showing who started in games at each postion isnt good enough for you. I will start using the fantasy sites ,with playes fantasy eligablity. My apologies. Next you keep bringing up Luther, the only reason he has minutes right now is bonzi is hurt and Tmac was being brought along slowly with that back. But you once again prove my point. You said Chill would leave for the opp. to start. That he would want to start and not be a role player. Then your example is a bench guy coming in and getting sig. minutes. Isn't that what he does here? So why would he leave for the same role on a diffrent team? That kinda destroys your theory. You actually think bringing up BK bashing by someone other then Chad Ford is new? Read any thread on here the media hates BK because he wont talk to them to give them stories, he likes to hold his cards close to his vest. So now you can only base you ideas off what biased journalist write??? Can you not form your own opinion? I do find it funny in the last thread 4 people came out to tell you, you were wrong, with only pesimest walt coming to your defense. Funny how that works. The coverpage on NBA section of ESPN is a pic of Shell saying his and LO's presences down low is the key for our turnaround, yet you still wont beleive it.

I totally agree, but in Soth's fantasy world he would have fallen to 12th, and we could have traded down and recieved 2 first round picks to do it. How hard is it? We need defence, we take the best defensive player in the draft. It wasnt a deep draft thats why NOBODY traded up or down to move. Guys would be at the spot they picked that they felt were of equal value. Secondly for those that wanted Roy, thats like saying the Patriots shoudl have drafted Kyle Boler that year he feel in the draft cause he was the best talent. NM this Brady guy they have. WTF, you are bitching about a guy that would be behind JJ and Chill, getting 8-10 min. a game. Our defense wouldnt be improved, you would still have Este coming off the bench getting beaten down low. Nothing much would have changed, we would be losing, and then you be bitching about BK and this team. He goes out and gets what we need to help the team and contribute, so we can start to have sucess now, yet you still [censored]. People [censored] cause we didnt get this guy or that guy, I showed in a previous thread how every GM has had at least one bust. Every 1st pick of BK's is an important cog and contributor. So you may not be happy with the 5th pick, but its better then getting nothing ala Demarr, Darko, etc. When there arent deep drafts you cant create talent.

My only comment is that if you want to talk about small sample data, Shell started 0-10 from the field. Call rookie jitters whatever, but considering he only gets maybe 3 shots a game, and not a single play run for him. To get that FG % up is amazing.

How bout a source for that, nobody else remembers that. I show you three sources supporting my argument and your response, is uh I remember they said it, cant find it bt I know it. Secondly, first you said Chill would start for half the teams, then you listed 10 teams, then i showed you wtih link to espn th starting 2 and 3 for all teams. You go back and pick the most obscure sigh possible that only changes 2 or 3 of them. You keep saying luther head, but your own sight had him as 3rd string. Then finally you say 3 or 4. So which is it so many to choose from. http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat....r=175795&Forum=,All_Forums,&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=175584&Search=true&where=&Name=618&daterange=&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post175795 dont make me do this but ok. You point out all the teams you think chill can start for. Quote: At least you managed to avoid too many personal attacks in this post. Teams that have inferior starting SGs to Chill right now: Bobcats Denver Houston Indiana Orlando New Orleans Sacramento Toronto Washington You could also make arguments for Utah, Phoenix,Portland, New York, Minnesota, Memphis and Boston. Obviously some of those teams are dependent on how rookies or very young guys pan out but you get my point. my pointing out my list and source notice people have heard of espn. Quote: I need to do HW, please use this to do YOUR HW. I will give you the link to Houston's, but as the starting depth chart g/f in sg postion is Tmac. So why dont you look at something before you speak. I used these exact depth charts to use for my names. Next, Chill is a more natural 3 or the G/F position since he isnt as quick as most 2's to guard on defense. Thus he is a decent g/f but to call him a sg is a stretch. You were the one that said someone would give him a shot at the SG. So there for his skills are a bit deminshed as a 2. Stevenson, yeh defensive stopper. Yeh had 18 and 4 tonight. What's Chillz career high they play the same roles over the year. But please go through team by team on this depth chart list before you try and call me out. Cause sir you are wrong. But thats about par for the course for you the past several days. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/depth?team=hou you using a fantasy based site (notice they place players in startng lineups as to what their "FANTASY" status is rotoworld is for fantasy league info: Quote: http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/Depth_NBA.aspx?sport=NBA Read it. If you can look at the actual depth charts as they stand right now and tell me Chill can't start for AT LEAST 3 other teams then you are insane. Or are you seriously telling me you'd take Stevenson or JR Smith or Luther Head or an extremely small backcourt in Knight/Felton with one of them starting out of necessity at the wrong position? I mean please. I don't know what prescriptions you are currently not taking but I have never "flip flopped" on anything related to the Hawks. You keep saying I called Chill a "bust" and I keep repeating that I never said that, I just said we could have taken a better player AT THAT spot. Of course you are already proven guilty of literally making up [censored] that people say when you tried to come up with some crap about what I said earlier about my feelings for the team so I'm not exactly surprised you are now trying to "Clintonize" something else I've supposedly said. Me still showing you actual game box scores with those players at that postion: Quote: just so you can get it out of your silly little head, you keep bringing up luther head, even the depth charts you showed me dont have him starting. Look at the box score from last night or any game this year. TMac and Pejas play the role of starting 2 guard. With Battier and Mason play the respective 3 spots on those rosters. That's why I gave you the benefit of the doubt in my previous response and listed the atarting 2's and 3's for each team you gave to show he prob wouldnt start over any of them. Notice in the box score you boy Luther head who you mention over and over plays Chill same roel getting 29-30 minutes of the bench. Still not starting. So now which 2 teams were going to be fighting over our bad pick to give him tons of money when guys like Prince dont even get offered that much. I love Chill and he is vital to our team, but he isnt the type of player that gets lured away by a huge contract. http://www.sportsline.com/nba/gamecenter/b...0061108_HOU@MIL you finally getting down to your 3 or 4 : Quote: I disagree. There are at least three of four teams that if they had him, Chill would be their starting 2 guard (possibly 3 as well) over what they have now. I am worried that won't be able to keep him once his rookie contract expires. You are confident we can. Guess what here? I hope you ARE right. I don't want to lose Chill and the flexibility he gives us off the bench. So who flip flops, provides no evidence, and can't back anything up.

Tell me from looking at these where you see Shell dropping to the mid teens: 9th overall talent: http://www.collegehoopsnet.com/Draft/2006/ 9th to the Warriors: http://probasketball.about.com/od/nbadraft...ockdraft061.htm 10th: http://www.wkyc.com/sports/sports_article.aspx?storyid=53920 10th talent: Key Stats: 17.6 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 59.5 FG%, 3.6 bpg (4th in nation) If Williams couldn't score a point, he should still be an NBA first-round draft pick based on all the other things he brings to the table. But this guy is no Ben Wallace. He has excellent footwork and agility, knows well which offensive moves work best for him and sticks with them. He has some limitations and may never be the scorer that Elton Brand is, but there's no doubt with his improved free-throw shooting that he can score in double figures in the NBA. When you throw in his shot-blocking and rebounding prowess, Williams will likely be a lottery pick. Williams is an unerringly consistent player. What you see is what you get. Though he does not have the freakish athletic ability of a Kevin Garnett, and exceptionally athletic big men give him trouble, he's got more than enough tools in the tool belt to succeed in the NBA. Williams has the look of a player who will log 12 or 13 productive years in the NBA. I can go on and on and on. So you say we could have traded based on everything Shel was a top 10 pick at worst. So that means you have 4 teams to trade with. This draft wasn't stacked after the top 3. So if your GS at 10 the Hawks say we want to trade. GS has to give up something. Is moving up 5 spots worth another 1st rd pick, 2nd rd pick, a player??? In some years like 2003 with 5 top players bron,melo,wade,bosh etc yeh it mgith be worth it. But if your GS why in this draft. There are 3 players about equal, Roy, Foye, Gay one of the three is bound to fall to you if you want a guard. If you want a big man Shel or O'bryant will be there. Everyone knew Marcus stock was dropping. So any position you want is available. So why do you say ok I'll trade another pick to move up 5 spots when most likely there will be a guy I want in this spot. I cohse the ten spot because thats where we would have more leverage the 6,7,8,9 spots the clsoer you get the less they are willing to move up just one spot or two. So now think and I mean really think. Why would any team move up in this draft. Your theory of trading down sounds great, but if you look at it, it just wasnt a deep enough draft to do it. So no team is listening to a trade in the top 10, and its reported the 7th pick will take your guy if available. Gee is it hard to understand why we took him. My point is you have this feeling Shell is this and that. Same with our argument about Chill the other day. All you bring to the table is your humbly poor opinion on basketball. You havent once shown me anything to suport your stance. I've shown you what other GM's,sportwriters, etc think. I've shown you stats, other team lineups etc. I have sourced every bit of info I have said. Your source is "uh Shel is bad we could have got more I swear, I was in the green room at the draft I know we could have traded."

First of all get your facts straight Boston said if Shel fell to them at 8 they would take him. That means if 6/7 arent willing to trade with you you have to take him if thats who you want. I have posted this before but you just dont get it. In your fantasy world you make this trade and taht trade, well it doenst always happen in real life. Furthmore look at any predraft predictions Shell was no lower then 11 in any of them. You have the preconvied notion of what he is and what he was going into the draft. Go back and look. Secondly last year we didnt need to draft based on need. We still needed talent. Even Chad Ford who bashes the Hawks like its his job, said Marvin was the most talented player in the draft. When you have 13 wins you accumalte talent. You double your wins, you rookie from last year looks ready to break out as your number 2 option. There are several FA servicable PG's, no big men beside LO that wouldnt costs you your entire bank. So you draft the best defensive player available, due to need. There are PG's like Speedy, Banks etc taht NBA expeirence and can give a lift, but no true big men. How hard is that to get?

ijust love how you go straight for picking the MVP. My only point was showing the reb. statistic we got worked every game last year in reb. Thats why I posted that. You simply look at pts and offensive numbers. Sorry but thats not all there is to players and winning basketball. The pistons play d and reb. your favorite team in rebuilding got skiles as coach who preaches reb and d. Every team would love a guy that just gets rebs. So i guess Ben Wallace is wrothless I mean [censored] he avg. 4.5 pts per game that championship year. Should probably get a guy like Al to get you 16 pts in his spot I mean thats 12 pts per game you gain. you dont get it we have the scorers, in JJ and Marvin when he comes back. Zaza and Smith are 3 and 4 option. Everytime would love to trot a guy out there that can get you 7 rebs on lmiited minutes that doesnt take shots away from the guys that should be shooting. I guarntee Kobe or Lebron would pay out of their own pocket for a guy liek Foster. He shoots, they crash, they kick back out, and he can shoot again. I guess there is no room on championship teams for hustle rebound guys, err Rodman, Wallace, Haslam until recently didnt have O, yep dont see it working if you can't score.

Again and again you keep proving my point. WE DIDNT NEED PTS. we were 11th in the league in scoring last year, 28th in defense. Um, wonder which one we needed work on. How hard is it for you to understand that. You talking about offense ok your boy Roy is averaging only 7 more pts per game then Sheldon in 13 more minutes per game played. Taking 16 shots per game to do that I might add. Concievalbe if we had drafted him he is 6th man maybe gets 8 shots or half the pts. So at 11.8 per game he would be contributing 6 pts to this team. Shel in his 20 minutes per game is giving us 4 pts. I'll even give you off the bench playing behind JJ where there are no minutes, hardly when you gotta get Chill in too. Maybe Roy gets 8 per game off the bench. So are you willing to give up almost 7 rebs per game which keep postions alive and give us post defense for 4 more pts per game. How many offense boards does Shel get that led to points? He is top rookie in off reb with 16 thats little over 2 per game. Thats two extra shots to get those 4 points. You want to win this year. Shel was your pick. With the money spent on Lue and Speedy Roy was no PG here so he competes for backup with Chill, that does nothing ot change your overall team. So whats the point of picking him. I said this before we needed post d and reb. so why go out and get something we already have to play behind our best player?

Lets look at this list then, all these guys are within 1 reb per game of shel, and listed is the number of more minutes a game it takes them to get that one extra reb. this is also no factoring in actually playing d which we need. Strictly RPG not per 48 Ilgaskuis 2 min J. O'neal 14 min Kristic 14 min Jamision 16 min Dampier 5 min then less the 1 rpg more villanovia 7 min curry 11 min harrington 12 min smoove 16 min So all those minutes that sheldon gives up is time that marvin, chill, etc can ge be on teh floor getting pts he gives us the dame production as a lot of great rebounders in less time on the court that was my point. If you really want a good laugh. look at it compared to jsut rookies. Guys that could have helped this year with our biggest prob in the paint. look at total reb, off reb, per 48, and only one rookie is within 3 reb. per game of shel. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?s...ype=2&pos=r

Its rebs per 48 minutes I knew you have a hard to understanding the concept. Some players stats are inflated due to playing 5 min. and getting 2 reb. I was so looking forward to this type of response. If you actually look at players that avg over 20 minutes a game he would be 9th. click and sort the stats by the column that is next to it. Rebounds per game. Shel is only avg 20 min per game. Yet he is top 40 on that list and only rookie. There are only 3 players ahead of him that avg less minutes. Everyone else ahead of him is avg at least 10 minutes more per game. So that tells me in a rookie in his first 7 games in the NBA we have a guy that is probably a top 20 rebounder factoring in minutes per game. Thats what the stat I showed you is for. Saying if everyone played the same amount this is what they would have. Clearly guys like you mentioned with the limited data pool to draw from should be excluded. But it is just to show you that our draft pick is doing exactly what we wanted. FIXING OUR BIGGEST NEED FROM LAST YEAR.

See MW24 it was a horrible pick cant you see that I mean we only addressed our biggest need with the best canidate for the job. Damn who would do that. Then to think it is actually working and he is the best at his job right now out of the rookies, by far. Damn what was anyone thinking.

Just for a little extra food for thought, so we needed interior d and reb. i think this qualifies as a solid pick then. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?s...&avg=48&pos=all

So if you draft potential all the time thats all you will have, ala Clippers before and Chicago in the early 2000's. At some point you have to say I have my group of young guys now its time to fill needs. So was BK supposed to draft a SG or SF this year then you would be all over him for drafting the same spots again. Side note, getting 16 rebs in a game is always nice from anyone. Like to see how many top 5 big men have done that in their career let alone in there first 7 games.

Did this man just say lengthy losing streak, cause I'm sorry but 3 games(if we lose to Mia like your saying). I would like to point to last years 2-17 start that is a losing streak. Yes it hurts both games were winable, but we havent been blown out this year and we are missing 2 starters.

I love Shelden with 12 plus reb already

To bad that wasnt the Sheldon draft which is what this thread was all about nowhere else until you bringing up this previous draft did that matter. So now you blame BK for taking Sheldon over Paul, Felton, and Deron ???? that would explain why you never answer my questions, you never read anything.

Who are your 3 franchise PG's. Roy and Foye arent PG's they are tweeners which with JJ we dont need. Williams dropped for a reason. BK wasnt the only guy to pass on him, the last thing a young team is a pouter and quiter. (hence the salim threads) So what franchise PG did we miss????

He has played 6 NBA games. I guess Tyrus Thomas will be just a 2 and 3 guy his career. I bet Detriot wishes it got 8/5 from its number 2 pick 3 years ago. ??? 8/5 strong defense from a rookie is solid. Revist this later in the year. We didn't need scoring we were over 100 per game last year. We needed defense. We needed defense right now we didnt need another project. So how hard is it to understand why if you need defense you draft a two time defense player of the year and an all-american. You have your biggest need interior d. Now please tell me whcih player in the draft had a better resume. If a bank is looking for someone to handle thier money market accounts, do they higher someone with just teller experience because they are the best teller. No they higher the best account manager. Its not hard to uinderstand.

You yourself said you didnt watch the Seattle game, I have been at every home game and trust me seen all the away games. Did you even see the Orlando game since it wasnt on tv. I was there up in my palace of 310. I do watch, and read carefully, I said taking charges is key. Right now like all rookies he doesnt get all the calls, but refs notice which guys get in position more then not, and over time he will get the benefit of the doubt on 50/50 calls like Battier does. I am al lfor a guy getting a foul if he is keeping them from making a layup. Perfect example of how a foul was good. This shows how little you know about basketball. With about 1:30 remaining in the Cleveland game Marshall is going down for a layup. Shelden basically tackles him and he doesnt even get us arms up to try an and1. marshall goes on to miss both free throws. Without that play does JJ's three all of a sudden not matter if Marshall makes the layup and they are up 5. THAT IS A FOUL I STAND UP AND CHEER. last year it looked like a layup line in there. If the first time down the court you have someone putting the wood on someone, they are less likely to do it again. If that causes one less drive and one more jumper attempt, it too is good foul. What I spoke of before is him getting called for blocking fouls while trying to take a charge. Thats called heart and hustle, and hell yeh I'm ok with that.

I just want to know what conspiracy theorist thinks we really turned down a better deal. How much can you get for a guy when the other team knows he is a FA your not bringing back. Do you really think Troy Murphy would fit in here? Yeh fantasy players are nice, but he doesnt play day is injury proned and would kill the cap to resign players like chill and smith. You have no idea what we were offered. There is no reason to think that BK turned down better deals just to lauhg and say oh well. You can say he was sought after, but he was a sought after FA. Then when teams found out that it was to be a sign and trade so he could help us out, maybe they didnt want to give anything up. How much did him chaning agents hurt? Most teams might not have wanted to wait the 60 days extra to negotiate. I just cant wait until this April or March when everyone is saying this guy might drop to 15 to us, or that guy because this draft is so deep. We take a PG that we can groom to take over for Speedy in several years. Then that fleecing wont look so bad will it, get playing time for your future and a pick in a deep draft you were out of. Sounds ok to me. This is the same situation in Chicago. Curry was one of the most sought after FA, the Bulls got 2 picks back from the Knicks. If that pick turns out to be Noah or Oden this year that was a pretty damn good trade, no?

I dont know about best, but in college Kroger had these Jeeni-o things they were actually turkey based stuff. But at $7.99 for a box of 24. You eat two for a meal, we are talking some serious food milage out of that 7.99. Less food expense = more bourbon and cokes , always a plus

Wait a second Sothy, so now it was a good move to get rid of Al. I remember you saying BK got fleeced. Kinda hard to get fleeced when you actually get something for a FA, and your owners dont want to take on lengthy contracts. So I guess in your limited basketball eyes Shelden is what you say generously average. Funny he is the NBA cover boy on ESPN, and the artical is all about how his defense and Lo's is what is making the difference this year. Guess you know better. You mention stats. Did you not see he is leading all rookies in rebounding that has played more then one game. Oh my! No you cant look at that might mean he was the best big man available that can contribute right away. (God forbid we want to win right now, after all the bitching you do about planing for the future) So I clearly know your not all about stats after your Childress will leave to start for half the NBA teams rant. So how about the little things Shelden does. How about he is leading our team in charges. So you say he fouls a lot, how many are blocks taht will turn into charges once he gets some cred from the refs? No those charges dont matter, uh. Only got Howard off the court early with 2 fouls so he couldnt get in rythem. It is the little things that dont show up in the stat sheet that matter. Its the calling out to teamates where they need to be on defense. Yeh I see a second round project player doing that. Its the boxing his man out so someone else can get the lose board. This quote is for you, its from the chat today: David Thorpe: I'm a big believer that great role players are almost as hard to find as superstars. You have to have that guy that is willing to take the charges and play unselfish, that isnt worried bout the stats. Oh yeh click here and look at the pick and caption and tell me he is generously average. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/index

I think we all know I was happy with the move ot get interior D in this draft, and i have defended the Shelden pick. Sometimes there isnt anything you can do to help a guy...................... http://www.nba.com/gallery/061110/061110_9.html Got to be the funniest pic i have ever seen.

My main point is that, that stat is skewed. Im not saying he is or isnt a great ball handler, but you cant use that he was 4th in a 10 team league. So 10 starting PG's he beat out 6. Thats like saying Chill is 5th in the South Eastern Division in rebounds. Doesn't mean he isn't good at it, but when you compare it to the whole league, or in this case all available draftees it is a meaningless stat.

Yeti, I see your point, but just some observations. I believe the PGS's he was talking abotu guarding were the quicker guys, Nash, Kidd, Parker, JT, etc. Farmer is far from a quick PG. Secondly you say 5th in the Pac-10 in ast/to that means that he is middle of the road. He is exactly a middle of the road PG in a 10 team league that beside Farmer doesnt have a NBA pg playing. So if he is middle of the road in one conference what was his asst/to ratio against everyone that was in this draft. Adding to that, it is far easy to have a better asst/to ratio as an off-guard. He isnt bringing it up everytime down. He can get 3 asst in a game and have 1 or no turnovers and his ratio makes him look like f'n Jason Kidd.