AtLaS

How is Josh too small to play PF?? He's as tall as the average PF in the NBA and probably the most athletic of them all. He's also added 10 more lbs of muscle this offseason. I'm not disagreeing that he's played great as an SF, and I also like seeing him there, he'll still get a lot of minutes there this year. But just b/c he's starting PF doesn't mean he'll stay there the whole game. It's funny that y'all say SF is his natural position when he continually gets beat off the dribble, he's a shot blocker, he CAN'T handle the ball well, and he played PF and C his whole high school career, with the exception of the Atlanta Celtics. He won't be able to take the average SF off the dribble, why do you think he took so many jump shots last year? Plus he's quick enough to take PF's off the dribble, and his shot has gotten MUCH better so that will be a TOUGH matchup for opposing PF's. I still remember that game from Josh's rookie season when I think Harrington was injured and Walker was traded, JS had to play PF against Garnett, and he actually did really well, he had like 15 and 10 or something, and played good D on Garnett most of the game. I do agree however that he almost always jumps when ppl pump fake.

I agree, I think you misread my post, thats the point I was making.

lol Walter you act as if everything you say is fact.. Just like Chris Paul was too short, now Shelden is. I don't think I've ever seen a positive post by you. Its funny that you say Dalembert isn't a smart player (which I agree with) when comparing him to Sene, when you have NEVER seen Sene play a real game, all you've seen is highlights. If you've seen a summer league game of him (which I doubt), do NOT base your opinion on that. Summer league is what it is and nothing else. I don't completely agree with the Shelden pick either, but saying he's gonna be too short to play PF is rediculous. Strength has as much to do with post play as height does, ESPECIALLY on defense.

Thats why we need to get him locked up in a contract before other teams have a chance to make him a big offer, like extend him after next season. Don't give him a chance to show some signs and some team go nuts for him, and force us to make a huge decision. That's exactly what happened to Phoenix and JJ, JJ wanted 45 mil over 6 years or something like that and they could have locked him up, but Phoenix wouldn't give it to him, then the next year the Hawks were offering the max.

Dwight and JJ are not in there. Gilbert>> Melo, I don't see Melo being a top 10 player. I'd put Gilbert, KG, JO, T-Mac (even injured), possibly even Vince over those 3.. AI is definately top 10.

Quote: SW has very little trade value, certainly less than Roy or Foye so he blew it on that one if you want to consider value. Chill has some value as does ZaZa, but not that much and if JS and MW remain Sfs we're in DEEP trouble without a dominant center that can justify them both starting. I didn't agree about the Shelden or Marvin picks (I wanted Felton 1st then Paul), but its funny that you say BK blew it on Shelden before he's even played an NBA game. Go ahead and bring up ur summer league and his being undersized stats. Truth is, let him play first. BTW what rookie is going to get traded RIGHT NOW. Foye and Roy probably have more value RIGHT NOW but what does that really matter? Whoever plays the best on the NBA floor will determine their trade value, not what they are/were PROJECTED to do in the NBA. Quote: There are 5 other teams out there with our amount of young talent and rarely does a Shq opportunity come along. This is not planning but blind luck. I NEVER said we'd get a Shaq, but we could DEFINATELY get a very good player for that package that could possibly put us over the edge, IF we do good this season. We could have got AI for Chill/#5. Not saying that would have been the best scenario but we could have. You have to admit star players are traded for less than value EVERY year, I'm not just talking about Shaq. And unless they are getting a great player in return, they want young productive players with potential and/or draft picks. All I'm saying is that we have one of the best packages available, and enough depth that we can afford to do it. Quote: So in essence you traded Chill for a superstar. Great move. If only I could think of that idea...Hmm, I've got a deal for a potential one now. Al/Chill for Bynum. Really, you are not getting a top 15 player for Chill/ZaZa. Back to the drawing board. 11/8 for a 22 year old Center is not bad at all, most teams see that as good, especially one making about 4 million a year. Chill is stuck behind too many ppl to put up his true numbers, but ppl recognize he was atop the best FG% this year and still put up more than 10 ppg. Plus Salim avgd 10 ppg, and could be a GREAT role player for a number of teams. Plus that's not even necessarily the package that would happen, I was just making an example, gah I hate the way that on this site you have to FULLY explain EVERYTHING you say or it gets twisted and turned into things you never even brought up..

Even tho Speedy's contract is frontloaded, doesnt the cap hit still increase every year? Like JJ was supposedly paid $20 million the first year but the cap hit started at 12 and increases although JJ's pay is actually decreasing..

I definately don't agree with everything BK's done, but one thing he has done is accumulate a ton of young talented players. I mean look at our roster from top to bottom, they are all young and valuble players with potential. Obviously JJ, Marvin and Smoove will most likely never be traded. But our other players, Chill/Salim/Speedy/Zaza/Shelden/Lorenzen/Solomon, we just have a ton of depth right now. We could afford to lose like 3 of them in a trade and still have a ton of depth. Look how Miami did it, they had all that young talent which obviously wouldn't have ever won it all, but they waited until making the playoffs (which is kind of how our team is looking this year), then they kept their best player and traded 3 players and a first for a great player (you know who it is) which put them over the edge. They could afford to lose those players because they were already a deep team. Making the playoffs makes your young talent look so much better. I think if we make the playoffs or come close this year, we can afford to lose a bunch of youngun's for a great player. Like Chill, Salim and Zaza could bring in a great player. Great players are traded for less than equal value EVERY year (and most teams couldnt put together a better package), and I guarantee we have one of the best chances to land one. We will be one of the first teams contacted, as we were with AI this year. If we make a trade like that we'd still have Speedy/JJ/Marvin/Smoove/top 15 player/Shelden/Wright, thats a contending team once Smoove and Marvin hit their potential. I think BK's just waiting for the right deal to come along..

sry but Murphy is NOT better than Al, better rebounder but thats it..

of course Amare's better in the post, because he plays there, Smith is an SF. Amare a better shooter? thats laughable.. Better passer? also laughable, you obviously know nothing about Smith. What did Amare win with all that talent before Nash arrived? what I thought.. Besides everyone puts up career numbers in Phoenix's current system, there were like 3 players that did this year. It was the same way in Dallas when Nash was there. Don't get me wrong Amare is light years ahead of Smith now (assuming he ever gets fully healthy), but he NEVER would have averaged 30 a game without Nash, probly not even 25. Don't get pissed because we compare Smith to some1 better, he's only 20, why would we compare him to some1 thats worse or even? We want him to be better, right? I don't really know if I want Smith to play SF or PF, but if PF he'll probly end up like K-Mart was in NJ, but with a better shot and better passer..

it's funny that you say all these positive things about Paul now, but last year all you could say was how he was too short for the league, his game wouldn't translate, he won't be able to get his shot off etc..

Did you see Orlando's record before McGrady left? Worst record in the league, after trading McGrady for Francis they were instantly a playoff challenger and improved by like 20 games. He's also really clutch. He used to make Cato look like an all-star with all the oops he threw him. I agree he isn't Kidd or Nash, but he's definately not a proven cancer..

I really don't think Francis is a cancer. He always worked really well with Houston, and when he went to Orlando they were in playoff contention after he replaced McGrady when they had the worst record in the league. Sure things didn't work out in the end, but thats only one situation. There was no way he was going to do anything with the Knicks messed up roster and being there only a half a season. Marbury is a proven cancer, Francis is not. BTW how was he gonna get out of the first round? The west was loaded then, you really think Francis and Mobley could get it done? He only played with Yao one year and Yao was a complete softy then, and still is now if you ask me. Francis used to be great with Cato, he always got him wide open looks inside and sick oops, and we know Cato is horrible. I think he would have the same effect with our team, plus he's still really young.

nah thats a real picture..

Why don't we trade.. Chill/resigned AL to Bucks for TJ Ford/Filler. I would take a bad contract to make this work. This is the perfect guard for our team. Quick, great on the fast break and would really help our team. Plus he's still young and could grow. I think he would really excel here. Ford/Salim JJ Smith/Marvin Shelden Zaza IMO He's our best option at PG.

that won't happen, do you really think a rookie would come in and start jacking up shots? I really think Foye compares well with Wade. I don't think he'll be THAT good, but both were big combo guards with an unlimited amount of moves that could really score. Neither were great passers. Foye is also known as a lockdown defender.

yeah this sucks, it's just such bullshi t that the owners didn't buyout Belkin in time. I mean, how could they let this happen? They were saying something like Belkin was the reason they didn't buy him out in time, thats bull, they KNEW this would happen if they didn't meet the deadline, it just makes no sense. I think there is some other reason that the Spirit didn't buy him out in time, something that they just don't want ppl to find out about. I mean how are they gonna say that Belkin is the reason they didn't buy BELKIN out.. makes no sense. But even worse is Belkin wanting to own a team in a city that ABSOLUTELY hates him. Why would he want to own a team where everyone hates him. That tells me right there that regardless of what he says, he doesn't care about the Hawks or Thrashers and just wants to operate cheap and milk the money. Whats EVEN worse is that once we GET a new GM, the GM won't have any power because Belkin will have to approve it first, so in other words when Belkin takes over Belkin is our owner, GM, EVERYTHING..

lol, I'm sorry but Iggy and Korver just flat out are not gonna get much better offensively. Korver can shoot, thats it.. he's unathletic, plays no defense, can't dribble, is too weak to post up, his ONLY chance is shooting 3's, doesn't matter who he's playing with. Let's not forget that Iggy has NEVER been a good offensive player. He only averaged like 10 ppg in college! He can't create anything for himself, and he's not a great shooter. If it wasn't for AI he wouldn't of had the stellar rookie season he had, he would be worse on the Hawks. His other 2 players are Daly (who has ZERO offense), and Webber (who definately has his best days behind him). AI HAS to take that many shots for Philly to be successful. Name a Philly team in the past that had the offensive capability of ours if we added AI. I'm sorry AI isn't gonna cry because he isn't getting shots, thats just you making up reasons to not take him on. What are we gonna use our cap space on? It's either overpay for mediocre talent or trade for some1, and I'd much rather be overpaying a bonafide star, then some1 like Nene or such.

I haven't posted in a while but I have watched the first 2 games, and to me our team just looks disgusted with each other. Everyone just has that look on their face like there is no chance of winning. Players keep trying to do things that they aren't capable of, and noone is playing with any confidence. I think it's because we don't have a vocal leader, noone to step up and say somethin to get our team wanting to play. JJ seems like a quiet guy, Smoove is shy, Marvin is shy, Chill isn't that type of person, and Zaza isn't going to lead our team. Maybe Al is it, but we just don't have anyone to get under people's skin and make them play better. Our team just seems pissed off the whole game, just look at everyone's face. I think we either need to get a new coach or get a vocal PG or somethin just to get this team on the same page, because right now our team just doesn't BELIEVE they can win. I'm sorry but even without AL, the Clippers are not that much better than us. I really don't think our team is that bad, I still like our personel, they just don't believe in each other.

Yeah but the difference is Earl Watson's a great defender and is much more athletic, and he's a much better natural PG than Lue is..

I don't understand the bashing of Eddy's numbers. They have increased almost every year, and LAST season he averaged 14.8 pts and 6.1 boards. This year he averaged 16.1 and 5.4, so I'd hardly call that playing in a contract year..

lol @ Dolfan, how are you going to go by who they are compared to? That makes NO sense whatsoever. Felton is a great defender, super quick, more hops than either Paul or Williams (he jumps much higher than his vertical), I believe he is a better passer than both also. The only thing against him is his shot, but he shot like 44% from 3! Deron shot 36%, and Deron is also only a 60% free throw shooter! Tell me how Deron is going to keep up with the likes of Francis, Marbury, Iverson, Kidd, Nash, Wade, Arenas and all the other super quick PG's today. All the good PG's are quick as hell, I just don't see Deron keeping up with them, now that's not to say that it can't happen, but just unlikely IMO. Let's not forget that he had Dee Brown on his team who guarded the quickest player most of the time, and we know how quick Dee is. I don't think his defense will translate as well as everyone assumes. Deron's NCAA performance is just blinding people, he wasn't even considered a top 15 pick before that.

I like this deal and have liked Felton for a long time. Felton is at least as good defensively, is as good a passer as anyone in this draft, and would just fit with our team perfectly. His 3pt percentage is almost 10% higher than Deron's and not far behind Paul. I don't see how he is considered turnover prone, because he is anything but that. I just think he would make all of our players so much better, and he is a true team leader with a lot of confidence, which is very important. Plus this kid can get up and finish with dunks and catch oops. Don't let his vertical fool you, Felton can jump WAY higher in the game. BTW, do y'all remember that Felton wore a cast on his left arm for most of the season while playing? That affected his dribbling and shot, because it would not allow him to get a grip on the ball with his left hand, and it was harder to dribble and pass left handed. I just don't think we should go by 'getting one of the top players in this draft,' (although I feel Felton is), because how do we know that they are the top players? We should go with the players that we like, besides neither of the other PG's are better than Felton at anything, except MAYBE shooting, and the percentages say that Deron is the worst.

Deron is MUCH slower, shoots only 36% from 3 which is not great (what will it be when the line is 2 ft further?), and shot only 67% from Free throw line this year, while Paul shot 47% from 3 and Felton was like 40-something, I forget. Felton and Williams are about equal FT shooters but Paul shot about 84% I think Williams' big NCAA tourney is just blinding everyone. Felton or Paul would just give us another dimension by being so much quicker. And I also don't get why Williams is such a GREAT defender now that Paul's height has been taken out of question. Paul averaged 2.4 steals/game, Felton had 2.0, Deron only averaged 1.0 per game. I understand that steals don't equal defense but we know that Paul and Felton aren't really going to get posted up on a nightly basis because they are average height for a PG, and there really aren't any post up PG's anymore. Also, how is D. Williams going to keep up with all the super quick PG's in the NBA? I just think he will end up being overwhelmed trying to guard today's 'quick' NBA point guard with the likes of Nash, Francis, Marbury, Wade, Parker, Iverson, Telfair, Nelson, Terry, Bibby, Arenas, I know there are many more but I don't feel like looking them up, but Paul and Felton have the athleticism to at least stay in front of them. Let's not forget that he also had Dee Brown on his team who guarded the quickest guy most of the time. Let's face it, our team is geared towards the fast break, we don't need Deron Williams, his shooting isn't as good as everyone has been raving and his FT% really turned me off also, and he is slower, I just see this guy's ceiling as Mark Jackson, and that's best case scenario. Although he is a smart player, Paul and Felton are very smart players also, and they are both very clutch. Please don't bring up Felton's Duke game where he had the turnover at the end, he has had MANY games where he has been very clutch, and he has never been labeled a turnover-prone player. Although UNC had great players, just look what happened EVERYTIME they took Felton out, he immediately went right back in, he ran that team, the ONE game without him they lost to Santa Clara, tell me that isn't a leader. I know y'all are going to come back with "Williams is the best passer in the draft," well I disagree, they all averaged about the same assists but I still say Felton is the best passer. A lot of D. Williams assists came off passes on the fast break to Dee Brown or kick outs to Head.

OMG, these trades look like New York Knicks fan's proposals. I would NEVER do any of those. You are giving Harrington away for nothing, he averages 18 and 7.5. I about fell out of my chair when you said "all I see with him is an overpaid tweener with a long contract." lol, He is neither overpaid nor does he have a long contract. He is a FA next year and 6.5 mil is not a lot, especially when you have 25 mil in cap space. You were completely wrong about that. We could get 5/13 for #2 and nothing more. Bickerstaff has pretty much already said it himself. You just completely undervalued Harrington, Harrington by himself should net us a top 10 pick, or an equal caliber player IF we decide to trade him.