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If AI goes to Indy with JO and Harrington that team will be a contender, not a team that will give us a great pick.. Just because you don't want AI on this team doesn't mean he's a cancer.

I've always liked Bibby, but from what Sac fans say he plays absolutely no defense.. don't know if that would work here. Billups would probably be the better option (although he probably wouldn't come here).

Um.. no most aren't rookies. Let's see, Shaun Livingston, Al Jefferson, Telfair, JR Smith, Robert Swift. IMO you could include Marvin in that list, even though he's only played 2 games, he played 82 last year. JR is doing alright but he is on a good team with a great passing PG, something Smoove only wishes he had. Remember last year when asked who we should draft, Smith said "that guy from Illinois" talking about Deron? Plus JR is mainly making 3's and he has always been a good shooter. I'll ask again, how many consistant 21 year old High school players are playing consistant NBA basketball (outside of LBJ and Howard cuz they were #1 picks)? Or how many EVER?

I'd probly do it for Howard, but Bosh? JJ >>> Bosh

only about 1 out of every 20 Hawks fan actually would rather still have Marvin over Paul. They just make a huge deal about it. Josh Smith JUST turned 21. How many 21 YO's in the NBA are playing good consistant basketball RIGHT NOW? or EVER? Not Many, give him time.

Dude are you REALLY making an argument that Webber is still a really effective player? Him and his 20 mil/year baggage and no defense? You can't honestly believe this. I must have looked at the stats wrong for the first 21 games in Philly. You are basing your opinion of AI helping someone after Webber playing his FIRST 21 games on a completely NEW team? Let's see for the WHOLE 05-06 season in Philly he shot .433, 04-05 in Sac he shot .449. After he adjusted to the new team the numbers are almost identical (1.6% difference). Not to mention Sacramento during their good years were a GREAT offensive team that had MANY scorers in Peja, Bibby, Miller, and Bobby Jackson. Christie was one of the best team glue guys I have ever seen.

Quote: He is a career 48% shooter, but sub 40% since he came to Philly. He didn't have any problem shooting last game though. First, he is not sub 40% since he came to Philly. Second, his numbers have been consistent for 5 years now. 02-03 Sac - 46% FG 03-04 Sac - 41% FG 04-05 Sac - 45% FG 04-05 Phi - 43% FG, hardly a difference, less than 2%. 05-06 Phi - 43% FG 06-07 Phi - 40% FG Webber hasn't been a great player since the 01-02 season. Doesn't look like AI hurt him that much. Yeah he still gets his numbers, but at what cost? Nice try, but AI did not hurt Webber. If AI hurt Webber, than D-Wade hurt Shaq. LeBron hurt Larry Hughes. Yao hurt McGrady. Just a rediculous argument. The real reason all these players are playing worse is because of all their injuries, which have a GREAT effect on someone's career. I do think T-Mac will turn it around, however..

Quote: I have high hopes for Marvin just like most on here, but if you can sit back and honestly not get worried when you see him put up some of the ugliest bumping into people shots ever ... well I just cant imagine that. I feel the exact same way. I just don't see all this potential all the BK backers are talking about. I want him to be great but I just don't see the potential. He doesn't (even last year) really make plays that just make you think "wow". That and he is very weak. All his summer league points were jumpshots or FTs. The only real potential I see in him is that he could become a great shooter.

lol dude I'm not completely for an AI trade, but you can't honestly believe that Webber is still an effective player. What does he make, like 20 mil/year? His defense is worse than Harrington's, that's saying something. BTW he shot 43% last year and had 2.5 TO/g, HORRIBLE for a supposed dominant PF. He is shooting 39% this year, and only averaging 11 and 8, while still getting 30 minutes. I'm sorry but the Webber with AI is a washed up PF making 20 million a year, not a great player next to AI. How do you think they got him from Sac so easy?

Quote: You, me, or anyone else on this board do not have a clue of what went on during their pre-camp workouts with the Hawks. It was widely reported that Marvin came in out of shape and was an inch shorter than reported. He did NOT have a great workout here. Paul, on the other hand, thought he was going to the Hawks because of how well his workout went and how well he got along with everyone. He even quoted that this was his best workout, AND he wanted to come here. Quote: The bottom line is we got MW... period. We went through hundreds of treads last year about who we should have drafted and nothing has changed. CP is still under contract with another team. Just let it go.... I almost think that BK drafted Marvin with the intention to trade him to Charlotte or NO, thinking they would crack and give up a huge package for him, but they didn't. How else do you explain the pick?.. considering how his workout went? and how he was virtually unproven at ANY level in his career, HS or College? It would have made sense for one of those teams to take a chance on Marvin because they were both horrible teams, and had NO talent at the SF position, so it's worth the risk. But in our situation, we already had THREE FIRST ROUND SF'S ON THE ROSTER! Marvin made it 4! Plus we had Harrington, which gave us FIVE SF'S and still NO PG! Just a horrible decision.. He either drafted Marvin because of that or out of spite since everyone was saying how much we needed a PG, and there was NO WAY he'd draft another SF. So he did it anyway, we know how egotistical BK is..

lol please stop with the Saer crap. He wouldn't have helped us for at least 3 years, it would be the equivalent to the Marvin pick, or worse. I thought our interior D was looking better until the last few games, but it has came back. However I don't think Shelden is to blame..

Woodson for AI

his body size, it's not hard to notice..

Quote: Just about everyone in the league viewed Marvin as the best or second best prospect in the draft. That doesn't reduce BK's culpability because the responsibility for the pick is his alone at the end of the day. However, people who are pretending that Marvin was not regarded by NBA personnel as the best or second-best prospect in the draft are having a little fun with revisionist history. I am sure that W, Diesel and others genuinely believed that Marvin did not have star potential at the time he was being drafted but that doesn't change the facts that the consensus among NBA personnel responsible for evaluating prospects viewed Marvin as the guy most likely to be a star in the NBA. I agree with that, I just don't see how someone SO unproven could be considered the BEST prospect. He had never done anything at the college level, his high school team was below .500, and after his freshman season of coming off the bench he's suddenly the BEST player available? Just makes no sense. That usually doesn't happen in the US, it's usually Euro guys that get drafted REALLY high without having done anything for their team, yet they are expected to do it in the NBA. He hadn't shown he was a star or a leader on ANY level, how did we expect him to come in and be one in the NBA? Much less with a #2 pick, a glut of SF's and a huge need for a pg. Not to mention even BEFORE the draft it was considered a really top heavy pg draft. Also he wasn't rated much higher than Paul or Deron, he wasn't considered the far and away BPA, probably 75% of the mocks I saw had us taking Paul, including ESPN's at least at one point. Don't y'all remember that Paul had his best workout here, and Marvin came in an inch shorter than reported AND out of shape.. but for some reason BK still fell into the hype.

lmao at the MJ rule. Wasn't Jordan the 2 time college player of the year? What was Marvin.. a bench player who stunk it up in the tourney when it really counted. He has no post game, he's weak, and he's not the great defender everyone is making him out to be. He's too small to ever be a great SF, unless he becomes an Allen type shooter. I hope he proves me wrong, but I just haven't seen the all this potential everyone keeps raving about. BTW he's played 84 games not 2 like y'all keep saying..

Quote: Quote: This is just a poor argument. Other than Paul, who on the Hornets can pass the ball? Who can create their own shot? That alone explains the low ppg and fg%. Peja Stojakovic, David West, Jannero Pargo, Bobby Jackson, and the rest of the guys are the athletes that most point guards want. Chandler, Bobby Simmons, Armstrong, Butler, and Mason. This is laughable. When has Peja ever created his own shot or made a pass? Chris Paul MADE David West. Bobby Jackson can't pass either, he's always been known as a shoot first pg. Did you really mention all the rest of those guys? Chandler might be the worst offensive center in the NBA.

Marvin wasn't THAT far ahead of Paul and Deron. I agree most GM's had Marvin over them, but it was based on potential alone, he was pretty much unproven in college. You don't draft another SF when you already had 2 good young ones like Chill and Smith (AND Diaw), not to mention we still had Harrington. And especially considering our GLARING need at PG. I just don't see how it's so inconceivable that Paul wouldn't be a good player. I admit I wasn't that high on Deron, I actually really liked Felton too. But Paul had a good shot, was a great passer, is super quick, and was a league leader in steals. It's not like Marvin had a Melo like freshman year, he came off the bench and scored 10 ppg, Mike Mercer did that last year. I agree he has a pretty good shot and the TOOLS to be a great player, but he was based on potential alone and we already had SO much of that on our roster. BTW I don't think that most other GM's would have drafted Marvin over Paul if they were in BK's situation. I remember RIGHT AFTER the draft people were questioning the pick. Almost EVERY mock draft I saw had us picking Paul. I also remember an interview with Paul and he even THOUGHT he was going to Atlanta because he had a great workout here. Marvin, on the other hand, came in almost an inch shorter than reported and was out of shape when he worked out. All that being said, I like Marvin and am rooting for him to be great, and I also know that it is expected for him to take a few years to realize his potential. But at this point it was a bad pick.

Yeah getting AI either puts us over the top and makes us a legit contender or ends our youth movement and kills our cap. It's a HUGE risk. By getting AI we are basically saying this is it, and if it doesn't work then we will eventually be back at the bottom. I might do an AI trade, if we got a good bargain. But I doubt Philly would be willing to trade him without getting some significant value back. That being said, cap space can only be used to sign someone, and who better to spend the money on than a franchise player and future HOF'er in his prime. There is noone we can sign with our cap that will be better than AI. I wouldn't be against an AI trade, but only if we got the right deal.

This is just a poor argument. Other than Paul, who on the Hornets can pass the ball? Who can create their own shot? That alone explains the low ppg and fg%. They will never be a great offensive team with that lineup. They will probably never even be a playoff team with that lineup. To even suggest that Paul wouldn't tremendously help our team more than Marvin (at least right NOW) is rediculous.

I've played with him too, hundreds of times, during games, pickup games, lenora park, wherever. The kid has the talent to play in the NBA, he's just not ready yet. He needs to beef up, that's the main thing. He needs to get stronger and further develop his pg skills although I think he can play pg now. Should he have went to UGA? Yes.. However I still believe he will be a player in the NBA, and an exciting one at that. He lit up the summer league and is now lighting up the D-League, although he has a few too many turnovers. Either way he hasn't really been given a shot on the Sixers. I would definately give him a shot on the Hawks, I bet we could acquire him for cheap.

Quote: I have to disagree with Diesel when he says to put this loss on Woody. This was just a bad matchup all around for the Hawks. - Shelden couldn't guard Luke - Lue, Salim, or Speedy couldn't guard Maurice when they happened to get matched up against him - ZaZa couldn't guard Kwame If we can't guard those players, then we are in for a LONG season. We were without Chill, they were w/o Kobe! Lamar was held to 6 points! There is no way we should have lost this game. Coaching definately had something to do with it, on both teams. Rotations were a big deal, and Solomon should have been given a chance earlier, he could have swatted some of Luke or Kwame's shots.

Quote: 2. JJ is a star but he got to get more assists. Also... Offensively, we look like we don't have a game plan. I have been saying this all year, we HAVE no offensive gameplan. It's why Smoove has been so inconsistant all year, because he is pretty much relied on to make open shots or create, which he isn't great at yet. In the past we have had a least two guys that can be relied on for creating scoring.. Al, JJ, and Toine. Now we only have one, which is why Lue has become so valuble to us. Woody just has no offense, the only FORM of an offense I see is when our two big men come to the high post for an entry pass and we try a backdoor cut. That is IT. Other than that it's throw it around until we get an open shot, which is why we are a jumpshooting team. I think JJ's assists go back to the offense also. If people aren't making open shots he won't get assists. It's not his fault everyone just stands around, and our coach does nothing about it.

I just can't believe we had such an ugly loss when Kobe was out AND Odom was shut down.. But I guess the Lakers HAVE been playing well w/o Kobe all year, guess I gotta give props to Phil.

I had the same problem..

yeah we didn't exactly get lucky last time. Besides the Lakers have played well all season without Kobe. We need to limit Odom.