Guest Posted October 12, 2002 Report Share Posted October 12, 2002 http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress...rts/4266710.htm Kidd is the best PG in the NBA Shaq is the best center and other stuff according to GM's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted October 12, 2002 Premium Member Report Share Posted October 12, 2002 I missed the LA repeat part, but it's interesting that: Shaq, Kobe, Kidd, Duncan, and Tmac are considered the top 5 players in the NBA. Wonder where's Webber, where's KG?, Where's Pierce? Where's Payton? I think This yr, some things will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 12, 2002 Report Share Posted October 12, 2002 Well I guess it's cause Cwebb/KG don't get the job done when it counts the most. PP alot of people think his game is too sloppy to be considered a top 5 player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traceman Posted October 12, 2002 Report Share Posted October 12, 2002 I agree with that top 5. KG, Pierce, Payton, C Webb, Nowitzki, Francis, etc are just a notch below that group in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traceman Posted October 12, 2002 Report Share Posted October 12, 2002 "More than 60 percent of the general managers believe the Lakers will win a fourth consecutive title this year. The Sacramento Kings finished second with 31 percent." That's no surprise and neither is the Kings finishing a distant 2nd. What I want to know is who was the other team (teams) that got 9% of the vote? SA? DAL? POR? NJ? Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted October 12, 2002 Premium Member Report Share Posted October 12, 2002 In reply to:Well I guess it's cause Cwebb/KG don't get the job done when it counts the most. And Kidd and tmac has? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted October 12, 2002 Premium Member Report Share Posted October 12, 2002 Probably dallas and Nj? If you are honest about it, the Lakers do not have the most talent anymore. Just shaq, Kobe and some aging vets. I would be very surprised if the Kings or the Mavs does not make it to the finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted October 12, 2002 Premium Member Report Share Posted October 12, 2002 But if you told me to pick 5 guys out of the NBA regaurdless of positions.. Duncan Shaq KG Payton Tmac Bottomline, those are the five BEST players playing. I like Kidd a whole lot, but Kidd is not a scorer... whereas Payton is a scorer, defender, and he does alright as a distributer. I don't think that Kobe is better than Tmac. I don't think that Kobe or Kidd is better than KG. Say what you want. Take about him not getting it done... Subtract Kobe, add KG and you still have 5 rings for shaq. IN fact, you have the most dominant duo in the history of the game. same goes for Duncan. Nobody is better than Duncan. IN fact, overall, Duncan is the best player in the game. He does it on both ends of the floor and the offense can run through him. Tmac is a great player. I don't see many other players that play offense and defense better. Kobe falls short because Kobe's defense is not in the same League as Tmac's. Nor has Kobe had the opportunity to lead a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traceman Posted October 13, 2002 Report Share Posted October 13, 2002 Actually, I don't think KG is either. I can see Duncan being 2nd and you can make a strong argument for T Mac being 3rd (I think he and Kobe are about the same). The bottom line is that you can hate all you want on Kobe but T Mac hasn't lead the Magic anywhere. Hell, they couldn't even beat the Hornets. You think the Magic wouldn't make the playoffs in the EC if T Mac and Kobe switched places? Please! Besides, who am I supposed to believe, 100% of the NBA's GMs who say that Kobe is top 5 (Only 61% said T Mac was by the way) or you? Kobe not top 5? Give me a break! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2002 Report Share Posted October 13, 2002 Kidd is better than Payton,besides one year Gary has also been a negitive on his team. GP is a good PG but a step below Kidd. Kidd can make any player that is really talented enough to play in the NBA look good.Even without the Nets having all that made 3pt threats.Guys like Andre had shooters that made shots at a high percentage and that's why Cleveland was still a boring team.HOWEVER the way Kidd boards( He's a better rebounder than Payton) and can run the fast break better is fun to watch. Kidd will hit the defensive board and run the ball down court.He is really the only PG that can do the things he does.Stockton is a half court PG,Andre is also. About tmac and Kobe...at times when Hill is on the floor Tmac seems to lose his aggressiveness and this doesn't happen with Kobe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted October 13, 2002 Premium Member Report Share Posted October 13, 2002 Kobe vs. KG and you take Kobe?? What the hell are you smoking? Kobe vs. Payton and you take Kobe. It's a close call but that 22 ppg, 9 apg, 4.5 rpg and being his team leader and for a while their sole double digit scorer makes all the difference in the world. The problem that you and I have about Kobe is that you say Kobe is better than Guys who have proven that they can carry a team. All the times when I have seen Kobe being targeted on defense he has disappeared. (Lakers Philly Finals, watch it carefully, Lakers Blazers during the Lakers first title run... Smith and Pip did a job of Kobe. Lakers vs. Kings this past yr... Why couldn't Kobe stop Bibby?) Watch the early part of the yr when the Lakers will be without Shaq and teams will sink their defensive double teams on Kobe... Then let's talk. Until Kobe has faced constant double teams like KG and Payton have, there is no need in putting him in the same arena and the same breath as these two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted October 13, 2002 Premium Member Report Share Posted October 13, 2002 Kidd... 14 pts, 9.9 apg, 7.3 rpg Payton.... 22 pts, 9.0 apg, 4.5 apg. and you think that Kidd is a step above Payton? How? Don't get me wrong, I like Kidd as much as the next guy. However, I think that truth is that Payton gets a raw deal. Especially now. People like to judge Payton based on what he should be doing. They say: Well in 2 yrs he's going to hit a wall. Well, he's got a negative attitude. Well, he's this and that. On the court however, He's better. Slightly, but better. I think he gets a bad deal simply because people don't like him. But if JT could average the type of numbers that GP averages, we'd be trying to get him votes for MVP. As far as him hitting a wall in 2 yrs, you guys said that 3 yrs ago. The man keeps going out and playing the game. One other thing... IN all these comparisons, make sure you look at the FG%. Kidd has never been too good at scoring. However, this past yr, Payton put up a FG% of 46.1 %. That's good for a shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2002 Report Share Posted October 13, 2002 Payton scores more but that is it.There are things a player can provide that doesn't show up on paper. He's got him on the boards/assist and probably steals aswell and got him on leadership. Payton defense has been starting to slip. Not to mention that when Kidd hits the boards and runs the ball down court he gives his team a better chance to score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2002 Report Share Posted October 13, 2002 You are such a hater that is not even funny.Kobe is better than KG.I'm tired of hearing Mr."I'm not paid enough"talk about how he has no help... well if he didn't hog the teams cap he might have alittle more help. Double teams that is the only thing you really have isn't it? It id debatable who is the better player,but you hate on Kobe alittle too much. " Lakers vs. Kings this past yr... Why couldn't Kobe stop Bibby?) " Kobe is a SG and Bibby is PG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traceman Posted October 13, 2002 Report Share Posted October 13, 2002 We're all wrong and you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2002 Report Share Posted October 13, 2002 How does Kobe get voted onto 2nd all-defensive team last season (with the most votes, 12, of anyone not making the first team) if he doesn't play D? FYI - the break down was ALL-DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAM Player Team Points 1st Team Votes Tim Duncan San Antonio 40 17 Kevin Garnett Minnesota 27 10 Ben Wallace Detroit 51 24 Gary Payton Seattle 47 20 Jason Kidd New Jersey 37 15 NBA ALL-DEFENSIVE SECOND TEAM Player Team Points 1st Team Votes Bruce Bowen San Antonio 21 6 Clifford Robinson Detroit 14 5 Dikembe Mutombo Philadelphia 27 9 Kobe Bryant L.A. Lakers 32 12 Doug Christie Sacramento 25 7 ~TMac recieved 1 first team votes and had 8 points total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2002 Report Share Posted October 13, 2002 Well it is a debate who is better between KG/Kobe/Tmac but I think he should quit denying that Kobe a top 5 player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted October 13, 2002 Premium Member Report Share Posted October 13, 2002 Exhange Payton for Kidd and I think Payton takes NJ just as far as Kidd did. Again, What about the FG%? I like Kidd a lot but 39.1% from the field is not top 5. You say Payton scores more but that's it as if Kidd is that much more better than Payton. I love Kidd's game but Payton Scores about 8 more ppg, he hits about 7% more of his shots and he gets 9 apg and 4.5 rpg to Kidd's 9.9 apg, 7.3 rpg. You can try to make a case for intangibles but there really is not one. Payton is just better. It's close but 8 points and 7% is huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted October 13, 2002 Premium Member Report Share Posted October 13, 2002 What are you smoking? 21, 12, and 5. Enuff said. I won't even talk about KG's defense and ability to carry a team. What has Kobe done besides ride sidekick to Shaq?? He better read Pippens Book about riding in the passenger side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted October 13, 2002 Premium Member Report Share Posted October 13, 2002 The GM's of the NBA have no track record but the draft. Do you know how many GM's pass up good talent in the draft? What do they really know? I mean do you think Scott Layden is a GM who can pick out talent? What about all these jokers who passed up on Tinsley, Pierce, or even the 12 that let Kobe Slide. If you're saying that they were right in putting Kobe ahead of KG (22pts, 12rebs, 5apg, and 1.6bpg) then you are foolish. The good news is that NOW their picks are on the record and now we can look back and see who is right and who is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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