Poll: Lon Kruger

[Guest Walter]

In reply to:

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"Isn't it the coaches job to Motivate?"

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You incessantly insisted it wasn't the coach's (or at least Lenny Wilken's) job to motivate only 2 years ago. You're such a hypocrite, I'm dizzy from your double standards!

In reply to:

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"Isn't it the coaches job to dispense discipline?"

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That's why you defended Lenny for, as Denberg put it so well, "coddling" J.R. Rider and publically shaming Mutombo of all players for the team's faults. It was management that finally suspended Rider, NOT the coach, just as it was management that mandated the play of DG, JT, and Lo. And you defended Lenny Wilkens for all this and more!

In reply to:

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"Isn't it the coaches job to design defenses around his personnell?"

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It was documented extensively by both a former player and a reporter that Lenny Wilken's practices were both too short and too easy. Even since then Oakley has stated what everyone else knew all along about Lenny's lackadasical coaching habits. Worse than all that and more specific to your insistance as to what is a coach's responsibility: a former player highlighted that under Lenny as the coach the players ran defensive practices, working the defense, rotations, etc. out themselves. If it is "the coach's job" to "design defenses and Lenny had player's doing it during his short, soft practices, how could you then or even now defend him and maintain any semblance of credibility.

Also just a week ago you insisted that defenses SHOULD NOT BE DESIGNED AROUND PERSONEL BUT "THE SYSTEM"! You specifically stated in your post entitled "That's the problem...",

In reply to:

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"The defense shouldn't be built around the strengths or weaknesses of the players defense... It should be built around the Team playing defense together."

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How do you "design defenses around personell" yet not "build around the strengths and weaknesses of the player's defense?!?

I want to WIN GAMES! Lon has a standard to meet for me to justify his remaining and I have publically, officially, and clearly stated the objective requirements for his return. Diesel, you remain a coward to not do so given your willingness to share your negative feelings about him, and moreover, you remain a hypocrite for the above and most every contradictory thing you post.

W

[Diesel]

Make a Stand Walter.

Do you think Lon should be fired if the same things continue or not??

[BlackHawkDown]

Lets see a man who never played any sport in College or pro. Never worked for a pro organization. Is berated an hall of fame player and coach. Lets see who has credability. It Must be Walter he is a WCU scholar. And Walter is such a great guy he is a philosopher of all things from politics to sports. God. He must be right Lenny Wilkens knows nothing he has only won more games than any other coach in history, and an NBA championship. Yet Lon who manage to win a ..... no ncaa championships ... no only one final four ... no he didn't develop any NBA all stars ....

But Walter let me save you the trouble BHD, only defended Lenny because he is black. Walter I am soooo..... RACIST!!! Thank God you are here to call me out.

[BlackHawkDown]

Who would be a good replacement for Lon the poll indicates general displeasure with him.

[Guest Walter]

And honestly there is little to suggest that things won't get better if not much better. Two new starters, JT learning the PG position, Nazr out, the hardest part of our schedule over, etc. AND WE'RE STILL 10-10, on pace to win 41 games currently, and would be in the playoffs.

Chicken Little, I've Already Establishd What It Takes for Lon to remain. 5 games below .500 he is on the hot seat. 8-10 games below .500 he should be fired or not resigned likely at season's end. I've given you opportunity after opportunity to respond with an objective claim. A SINGLE OBJECTIVE CLAIM of what it would take to justify the firing of Lon Kruger. YOU ARE A COWARD FOR NOT DOING SO!

In order for you to MAKE A STAND, Diesel, you first have to establish that you aren't standing in your own quicksand. Your FEELINGS don't hold you up when you make outlandish, obviously biased claims.

W

[Guest]

How about this one: reports cite Lon as initiating the playoff guarantee, a promise that was made, though few realize this, before we acquired GR. Barring a cataclysmic string of injuries, it's Lon's responsibility to fulfil that promise, esp. with a team as talented as the one now on the floor.

His rotations of late have improved - fewer minutes for Ham (when in need of energy or quick spells for Reef).

Dion is out of the dog house, a place he has seemingly lived in comfort for the past two years. While I have no idea whether or not Ira is feeling ill/ under the weather at all, Dion's minutes have gone up the last couple of games and, imo, he's made much of them.

We've played better ball the past two games. I'm curious/antsy/hopeful to see if will continue this week. We go see Detroit in their house, then play a untilnow DREADED back to back against Minny the next night.

With our schedule easing up some in terms of number of games per week, perhaps more practice time will/ has resulted in a little more unity.

I especially liked Reef's quote today after the game, "We can't think we're on the right track, we have to go out and prove it,'' Abdur-Rahim said. ''We just have to go out and do it every night. When we think too much of ourselves, that's when we get in trouble.''

perhaps they're learning. perhaps they are.

[Guest Walter]

The number is so great and exclusively white that it wins you some illustrious credentials.

BTW, did you read the post you responded to? It was a response on the thurough double standard Diesel demonstrates in judging the job done by the Hawk's last 2 coaches. It was not a comment on poor ol' Lenny Wilkens, the second losing coach in the NBA whom the game has sprinted by. He is ancient Hawks' history in every respect but his insistance that he be paid $5 million per to N-O-T coach us.

W

[Guest Walter]

Avoid anymore the subject of the above post? Wow. You're cowardly.

Which is it? Do you design a defense around it's personel or not? You're firmly on both sides of the fence all within 1 single week. Please clarify (snicker).

W

[BlackHawkDown]

Walter you said Diesel doesn't have an objective opinion, what do you call the dribble you spit. Your biased in all you post, but what is more you dont really point out many views on anything you just snipe at others. And what is this coward crap. who are you. You insult people and get upset when you cant prove your point. Yet I am the one according to you that is insulting other posters. You sir are a gentleman and a WCU scholar. I admire your greatness. Someday all Hawksqauwkers will be educated philosphers like yourself. You sir are a erudite.

[Nurlman]

Actually, Walter has supported his points -- usually pretty well -- and he gets frustrated when Diesel doesn't agree.

And Walter, Diesel won't agree. Not in a million years. Doesn't matter how well you support your points, he's not changing his mind...

...unless you do. ;-)

[Nurlman]

Lon issued himself and his club a public challenge before the season -- drew the line right where it should be. This team should be in the playoffs. Of course, he didn't say, "If not, we should lose our jobs, me included", but that's really what he's saying. I believe if the team doesn't make the playoffs, he'll resign - and I think he should.

The playoffs are the right standard for this rebuilding club with great promise but some remaining holes, particularly at the 2 (not a Newble slam - the man is a 3).

Now, as to this season - they've been uneven after playing all of 20 games together. Tough road games in there, several back-to-backs. The last three games have been very nice. Turnovers way down. Some semblance of taking care of the basketball. Generally good energy, good defense. Obvious offensive talent, sometimes no flow, but again, improving.

I think the next challenge for the team is to continue to keep turnovers down, play good team defense and create offensive flow consistently in the tough road games and second night of back-to-backs (where they have been a patsy). Looking forward to the next quarter of a season.

[Guest Walter]

I asked Diesel (and others should they WANT to see Lon gone) to state an objective wins/losses position, record, games below .500 that would justify the firing (or not resigning) of Lon Kruger as Hawk's coach.

I willingly gave an objective opinion as to what record it would take to justify the firing or nto rehiring of Lon.

That record was essentially (the exact quote skips me but the numbers are correct) 5 games below .500 (likely not resign) and 8-10 below .500, likely fire.

I do not supply my FEELINGS about Lon and certainly not ONLY my feelings about Lon.

If Diesel had anything other than FEELINGS, obviously very biased ones AGAINST Lon, then he could support those feelings by making an objective claim. In otherwords, if the team were coached so poorly as Diesel suggests, then it wouldn't be:

1) 10-10 (after the hardest part of our schedule with 2 new starters and JT still learning the Pg position)

2) On target to meet this forum's expectations and surpass all analyst expectations

3) the existing eighth seed.

I do not expect you to understand BHD since I am more than willing to call you on your white player and coach hate and you can't face the truth about yourself. If a mirror makes you look ugly, break it, right?

W

[BlackHawkDown]

WTF. You haven't made one point you just repeat yourself I no longer consider you a worthwhile adversary. You have nothing to say. But you sir are still a gentleman and a WCU scholar.

PS Everyone on this site looks at the talent on this team and would be disgusted with a .500 record at the end of the season.

[Guest Walter]

of the season. Secondly, we had Theo getting is rythm and minutes back, we have 2 new starters, JT still learning the point, DJ out for good, and Nazr and CC effectively out until now. In other words, we couldn't expect a fast start. Moreover, .500 easily gets us in the playoffs and could historically equate to anything as high as a 6th seed. How "disgusting" is that again?

Thus, after our worst part of the season we are this year's equivalent of an 8th seed. While we may still have some growing pains this is just about the worst we should be for the season. The makeup of our team coming into the season only means we should get better and get better faster than the average team as the season progresses.

The forum even discussed the prospect of our record 20 games into the season and if I am not mistaken the KEY part of the discussion was our first 15 games being difficult and including a hard early road trip. This very fact rightly dampened any (wild) expectations of a 15-5 record, not to mention the team's likely significant growing pains similarly reduce the chance of a fast start. Of course, you may have been too busy sulking then too.

BTW, I will more than gladly accept from you a record that JUSTIFIES Lon's firing or not resigning from/with this team.

Like I said, break the mirror that shows you the ugly truth about yourself. I expect NOTHING more from you. Nothing.

[BlackHawkDown]

Lets see. Because we are okay with LOn means it must be his great coaching and not the fact that we have probably the most talented team in the league (save DAL, LAC, IND, NJ & SAC). When Zeke did the same thing with younger players he was ostrasized. Walter Lon is a historically bad coach, people at the Univ. of FL are still talking about what an idiot he is. Players go to Orlando b/c they look forward to playing for Doc. Nate Mcmillian is doing the same thing. Phil Jackson, etc... these are good coaches. Who wants to play for Lon?

[Guest Walter]

You named 3 coaches that players in Jackson, Rivers, and McMillian) want to go play for (more than Lon Kruger...you see I agree, although I'm not sure about Mcmillian). Guess what? None of them are leaving their teams or coming here.

Thus, who do you want to replace Lon with REALLY?

Van Gundy?

He's white and we KNOW how you feel about white players and coaches. Regardless, he's not coming here either.

Bob Hill? Chuck Daly? Red Auerbach?!?

Maybe Stotts?

Yeah. Players really want to play for Stotts, too.

I watched last year as the team rallied around Lon and played hard, having a winning record the second half of the season. The players we have like playing for Lon regardless of whether players want to come to Atlanta and play in front of 8,000 fans at home.

...

In reply to:

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"we have probably the most talented team in the league"

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Come on now! We also have the team with the most changes in the league. We lost our likely starting 2 in DJ. We gained 2 starters. We moved JT back to the point for good. 4 MAJOR changes. Talent we have. League high talent we don't. Of course, we've also played the hardest part of our schedule. That apparently means nothing to you.

Do I think Lon is great? No. I never did. Do I think he deserves to coach until he actually demonstrates he can't win(meaning 8-10 games below .500, fire or don't resign him. 5 games below .500 don't resign him.)? D@MN straight!

It appears you think flashing around the names of 3 coaches that aren't leaving and will never come here proves a d@mn thing. Actually, the fact that you won't set some sort of objective criteria to justify firing Lon proves you at least that you are afraid to take a stand using anything other than your feelings against Lon which you can avoid being accountable for.

W

[BlackHawkDown]

1. All the coaches you mentioned I never brought up. I think Daly and Van Gundy are washed up.

2. I said myself that Lon should be coach until the end of the season. No one benefits from mid season coaching changes.

My point is we should have hired Zeke not Lon. Or someone like Rivers, Zeke, McMillian or Cheeks. I would add Jackson to the list but I think he is one of a kind. Plus he hasnt proven he can take bad players and win.

I agree wew have alot of changes and it takes time but I also think our talent shoulkd yield better results. I blame poor prep on Lon's part. Notice that Doc nd Nate w/ no talent squads in their first year could go .500 + .

But, I am just a racist. You sir are a scholar.

[Guest Walter]

I would have rather had McMillian (Rivers was not available then, though I pushed for a Lenny firing and Doc hiring a year earlier, I didn't and don't want Cheeks, and while I liked Zeke at the time his price tag was too much considering we would have been paying Lenny $5 mil per as well to NOT coach us).

I liked the Izzo mentioning much more than Lon in terms of college coaches. However, we got Lon (mostly for player development reasons), the team showed some signs of playing hard for him the second half of last season (in which we were over .500), and considering the hellish schedule we have had this year and FOUR major changes (lost projected starting 2, 2 new starters, JT continuing his learning the point) we are still on or not far off any reasonable projections for the start of this year.

W