Had we known then what we know now?

[Guest Walter]

Had we known then that SW would only average .5 BPG in 20+ MPG would you still advocate drafting him 5th overall?

P.S. My take is that SW was a player that could ONLY justify staying on the court if his defense was game changing as offensively he is a liability and at most allows for a 10 MPG player. Defensively he might tack on another 5-10 MPG of justified playing time but not much more and never starters MPG particilarly on our team with so many forwards and no dominate (offensive post presence) center.

Please try to vote what you actually believe instead of being disengenuous.

W

[Guest Walter]

or didn't initially want to but would choose to do so now, I would like to know who you are. Partly because of the recent disengenuous history of voting. Partly because I find these two positions rather astoundingly inconceivable and might come to whomever for clarification if not their justification.

I of course voted the 3rd option.

W

[TexasPete]

WOW! Somebody actually voted that he was the right pick...oh, yeah, KB is posting tonight. My bad.

[vdunkndunk]

I spent about 2 months arguing over on RealGM that Shelden would suck in the pros. Then, to my shame, I flipflopped when I found out the BK liked him, because I knew we needed a big man, and because at that time I really trusted BK because so few of his picks were outright busts.

But now I'm back to thinking that Shelden was a wasted pick at the 5 spot. He may get a bit better than he is right now, but I just don't see a lot of upside...and I don't see any star potential at all. The best I can say is that he has a CHANCE to become a valuable "glue guy." But that's not exactly a compliment for a top 5 pick.

[Guest Walter]

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WOW! Somebody actually voted that he was the right pick...oh, yeah, KB is posting tonight. My bad.

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...right up until the point it became clear that BK might draft him. It was perhaps the most surreal turn of events in Hawksquawk history to see KB turn in favor of SW and against Roy and Foye whom he had previously 100% supported with the mere possibility of BK drafting SW. In fact, I believe one of KB's primary reasons for disliking SW was because he thought he wasn't a BK-type pick or player or BPA.

At one point KB and I only disagreed regarding Foye over Roy (and that not by much) as we were in lock-step about SW. Again, sureal. If that was KB voting (and if it was I doubt he'll ever acknowledge it), it was a disengenuous vote "for" BK and frankly one that is as cowardly and conspicious as his original flip/flop.

W

[falc82]

I voted the 3rd option as well to bring it up to 50%. I'd like to hold off on my judgement of Shelden, because I do think his shoulder is effecting his overall game. I do think he can be an above average interior defender in the NBA; however, I didn't think he should be the 5th pick then and I still don't think he was the right pick now.

I advocated selecting Roy at the time with Foye being a close 2nd, and I've seen nothing to deter from my opinion since the start of the season. Not trading down to select Shelden was a huge mistake as well if he was truly the only guy we considered selecting. The Blazers/T-wolves trade showed me that there would have been interest in a trade down with Shelden still being available. I don't think we should overlook that this was a terrible draft overall, but the fact that 2 potential starters in Foye and Roy were available and that we passed on both shows that we made the wrong choice. Hell even Marcus Williams is looking like a better pick now.

[Guest Walter]

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Should you choose to still pick SW or didn't initially want to but would choose to do so now, I would like to know who you are. Partly because of the recent disengenuous history of voting. Partly because I find these two positions rather astoundingly inconceivable and might come to whomever for clarification if not their justification.

I of course voted the 3rd option.

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Come on people. Anyone can realize why individuals would want to know exactly who would (still) want SW at 5. Very disengenuous. Very conspicious. Step up fellas.

[gsuteke]

Kudzu may have denied your registration request.

[exodus]

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But now I'm back to thinking that Shelden was a wasted pick at the 5 spot.

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I don't think he was a wasted pick. I just think he was the wrong pick.

His defensive rebounding rate is comparable to guys like Okafor and Foster. I don't think we have seen the best of him this year. And with Smith taking to the 4 spot so well the only way to give Shelden good minutes is to play him a lot at C. I am all for this but Woody has been reluctant to do it.

Last spring i was thinking that if his standing reach was 9'or better that he would be a top 5 pick. It came in at 8'8" and i thought that would really hurt his draft stock. But the word at the time was that BK had already made his promise.

[lunar]

i always knew that sheldon wasn't going to be a star, but we did need another big man in the post. i'm not going to blame anyone for the pick because he helps us in ways that don't show up in the stat sheet. i still would prefer roy, but even i know that roy isn't going to stop people from getting into the paint and that's what sheldon does.

[Guest Walter]

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i always knew that sheldon wasn't going to be a star, but we did need another big man in the post. i'm not going to blame anyone for the pick because he helps us in ways that don't show up in the stat sheet. i still would prefer roy, but even i know that roy isn't going to stop people from getting into the paint and that's what sheldon does.

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I don't see SW stopping people from getting in the paint or their rising up faster, higher, and longer (as evidenced by a horrid BPG average) and shooting over him when they do. I also believe an MLE player gives you what SW gives without the undersizing, possibly the potential to play center. Certainly MLEs come more frequently and carry less value than a 5th pick.

Lastly, you can't get a one diminsional player and still play him 35 MPG, what you'd want from a 5th overall pick. SW is no less 1-dimensional than Diaw WAS and for less respectable reasons. SW's doesn't have the offensive skill. Diaw has got offense in him, he's just got to release the valve and can be effective on offense without 1st scoring. Regardless, I wouldn't ever see Diaw as anywhere near a 5th pick.

People can believe what they want and reaffirm themselves how they want, but on this issue I certainly cannot understand how.

W

[TexasPete]

Shelden doesn't stop jack from getting into the paint. I'm not quite sure what Shelden Williams you have been watching all year. The one I see gets beat off the dribble and can't block a shot. BTW, its usually guards that prevent teams from getting into the paint. Its the bigs who help stop the penetration after guys get into the paint.

Its not like guys are saying, "Oh no, we can't drive now, Shelden is in the game". The bottom line is SW is a career role player and never should have been taken over players like Roy or Foye. He was a MISTAKE. Very seldom does BK ever take the right guy, the guy who turns out the best and helps the team the most. Shelden is an old 23 year old rookie so its not like we have a lot of development to look forward to in the future. Shelden rebounds fine, but the simple truth is his defense is BELOW expectations. And this from a guy with no offensive game and who was draftd for defense. Bad pick. Roy would be sweet right now and our future would be turbo charged. Watching SW play knowing who we passed makes me sick.

[lunar]

Diaw couldn't bang in the middle, he still was a perimeter oriented player. also, Sheldon isn't making MLE money either. seeing as though we knew coming in that his contributions to the team weren't going to be seen on the stat sheet, i don't see how you can hold that up against him. he still has room to improve and he isn't 100% healthy (i think that shoulder is starting to give a little). he may not be blocking 3 shots a game, but he does have a big impact on how we play. our mistake was thinking that he was going to be able to go toe-to-toe with the shaqs of the NBA. when going against PF's, he can hold his own, but we still need a big man to man the middle.

[TexasPete]

So, two people actually didn't want Shelden but after watching his disappointing season...they are glad we have him? I guess it takes all kinds. And this after watching Roy blow up.

[lunar]

i've seen the sheldon that has been contesting point guards that think they have free reign to go to the hoop all game long. i think we are forgetting what the jameer nelsons of the NBA were doing against us last year. he may not be stopping shaqille o'neal and alonzo morning from going in, but the point guard layup drills have ceased to exist. and that has kept us in alot of ball games.

[Guest Walter]

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i've seen the sheldon that has been contesting point guards that think they have free reign to go to the hoop all game long. i think we are forgetting what the jameer nelsons of the NBA were doing against us last year. he may not be stopping shaqille o'neal and alonzo morning from going in, but the point guard layup drills have ceased to exist. and that has kept us in alot of ball games.

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This is really a VERY poor reason. I know our interior defense was bad and just about ANYone was better than Harrington, but THAT is the point. Just about anyone not name Al can stop a Pg from getting to the hole sometimes. Don't mistake any defense for good defense and neither are worth a 5th overall pick given the player is an offensive liability and the team has no real forward need...no matter how poor your defense is.

But at least Lunar, you are the only one that is willing to admit it, seem genuine in your belief, and I respect you for both. Here's hoping that in 3 years when Roy's kick stomping everybody, SW is "stopping" more than the occasional Pg with his .5 BPG.

W

[BusBoyIsBack]

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So, two people actually didn't want Shelden but after watching his disappointing season...they are glad we have him? I guess it takes all kinds. And this after watching Roy blow up.

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1)He's not healthy

2)It's been half a season

3)He leads all rookies in RPG which is one of the main things he was brought in to do.

4)Did I mention he's not healthy and when he was he was the front runner for ROY?

[xhawk]

These are very good points...To add to that, who else was available that was going to make us better rebounders and give us better interior defense? He is also a big man who make free throws, which is tough to find. Not to mention he is still a rookie and is injured. Roy would have been nice but we are guard heavy right now (Salim, Childress, JJ, Speedy and Lue). Williams was and is still is the safest pick for the long term outlook of this team.

As a side note, I would like to see him play more center. That is currently where his best instincts are and he does seem a bit slow for PF.

[Guest Walter]

...No, alot.

Particularly this part...

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As a side note, I would like to see him play more center. That is currently where his best instincts are and he does seem a bit slow for PF.

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He's WELL too short to play center! If he can't block a forward's shot he'll never block a centers. It will be like shooting over a chair for most centers. Just remember who we are playing at Pf. I prefer my NBA frontline taller than my HS team and SW/JS would not be.

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To add to that, who else was available that was going to make us better rebounders and give us better interior defense?

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1) While not immediately better, in the long run...Sene.

2) FAcy had Gooden and Wilcox.

3) Could trade the 5th pick for what ou want and do much better. I guarantee you right now Roy packaged with MW would get you Gasol. You MUST think of these things. A draft picks' trade value IS extremely important. Much more important than poorly addressing one of many rebuilding team's needs.

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He is also a big man who make free throws, which is tough to find.

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But he doesn't earn FTs in the NBA (about 1.75 a game)! What good is that when his offense isn't good enough or his defense game changing enough to warrant being on the court more than about 20 minutes?

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Not to mention he is still a rookie and is injured.

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1) What exactly is his injury?

2) Roy broke his foot and still came back to chump him!

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Roy would have been nice but we are guard heavy right now (Salim, Childress, JJ, Speedy and Lue).

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I don't see how Speedy matters (signed afterwards), Salim matters (ever), or how we aren't more forward-heavy with JC, JS, and MW...all better prospects than our "guards".

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Williams was and is still is the safest pick for the long term outlook of this team.

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He wasn't supposed to be a long-term pick!?! He was the most NBA-ready player available. When did he become a prospect with PO-tential? Why exactly did we need a "safe Pf" with a 5th overall pick?

...

I'll never get this in a million years. This franchise needed and deserves better from its GM and frankly a small portion of you people scare the [censored] out of me with your rationalizations. It's nice to get a good FT shooting, decent rebounding, and occasional baseline J shooting big. It just shouldn't cost you more than the MLE and D@mn sure isn't better than a future 20/5/4 guard in Roy (whatever you choose to do with him).

W

[AHF]

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Had we known then that SW would only average .5 BPG in 20+ MPG would you still advocate drafting him 5th overall?

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Considering how much I knew at this point of Childress' rookie season, I am going to pass on this poll.