Shareef vs Pau Gasol

[Diesel]

Again, You say that KG lifts the players around him. That suggests that somehow, he makes them BETTER than they are without him. That's not true. He is the majority of the reason they win. However, that's not because of Any lifting that he does. It's more because the team was BUILT around HIM. There's a great difference in the two statements.

Let me explain.

Here's an example.

A car can have a Fast engine. I mean a really good engine. And all the pieces of the car are built for that engine. HOWEVER, that don't mean that those pieces couldn't function as well or better on some other car.

What you're suggesting is that the ENGINE makes those pieces work. As if those pieces would be junk without the engine. That's not true. Those pieces were designed for that car to work with that engine.

Back to the players.

IF you compared Kidd to KG. Kidd makes his pieces better. He made McCollough and Van Horn look like good players. He makes Kenyon Martin and Richard Jefferson look like Allstars. A simple comparison is to compare the nets before Kidd with them after Kidd. He makes them better.

Of course, KG has a huge effect on weather the Minn Wolves win. However, It's not the same effect as Kidd. KG doesn't make any of those players BETTER. IN fact, if Wally goes to Chicago, Wally becomes an allstar. Wally has toned down his game in order to compliment KG. In Minn, the reason why they execute so well is because they are a team. KG is the star of the team, but that's a long way from making his teammates better.

[PoppaFritz]

I don't think we are going to get any where on this, but you underestimate what KG does. Lifting=making his teammates better. KG consistently does this. KG would do this for any team, including NJ. I agree Kidd is the best point guard in the game and he makes his teammates better but KG is just as valuable to his teammates. I think NJ would still be a playoff team without Kidd, especially in the weak Eastern conference. Without KG, Minnesota is about as good as the Grizzlies.

I think you are wrong saying Wally would be an All-Star in Chicago. Wally needs a player like KG to draw the defense to create his shot and get open looks. Jalen isn't going to get the attention KG does. The attention KG gets from opposing defenses makes his teammates better. And he is talented enough and unselfish enough to find the open man. i.e. making his teammates better.

KG is not only the engine of the T-Wolves "car", he is also the driver, mechanic and would wash the car if it would help them win. Their team, "car" goes no where without him.

[Diesel]

[Diesel]

First...

OF Course KG is valuable to his team. Remember, the team is BUILT around him. He is the most valuable player there and without him, Minn is nothing.... BUT. He doesn't make those players BETTER. What I mean is that there even isn't a Shaq like effect made by KG. Yes KG has awesome Numbers, but if you watch Minnesota play, the run a lot of plays. 1/2 of the plays they run aren't for KG. Moreover, because they execute plays alot, teams really don't put a lot of focus on KG. I was watching Minn/Seattle last night. KG was rarely doubled. IN fact, I only remember one sequence when he was. That's part of the problem of defending him. He doesn't sit in the post long enough for you to double him. His game can happen anywhere. And they run plays.

However, you messed up by saying, "Without Kidd, NJ would still make the playoffs."

Uhm... [censored] NO. That team would be in the lottery without Kidd. The east can all be as bad as Chicago and Cleveland and NJ still wouldn't make the playoffs without Kidd. It's evident when you watch NJ and Kidd leaves the floor. They CRUMBLE. He's the best PG in the game, but more importantly, he's the best playmaker in the game. He's the only reason why NJ is a winning team to begin with.

[Guest]

Hello!Wally made the allstar team last year.

[PoppaFritz]

Hello!!!! I was saying he wouldn't make the All-Star team playing in Chicago.

[Guest]

I was talking to Diesel because he said Wally would

be a allstar if he played for Chicago.

[Traceman]

make the playoffs this year? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! Actually, I said that I thought we would win between 38-41 games and contend for a playoff spot. However, YOU said:

"My top 8 teams in the East look like this:

1. Indy. Too Much talent. I think the best part of their talent is Brad Miller. He gets no credit but he's a 16 ppg C. 8 rpg with Indy this yr. Add that to Harrington coming back and you got a squad that has a lot of depth and talent. But Brad Miller and Reggie Miller are the two players that makes the chemistry work.

2. New Jersey Drive. Too Much defense. Offense will struggle abit...But we should see the rise of Richard Jefferson.

3. Washington. Jordan has a lot of talented player and they say Jordan's coming back in better shape. Add Stackhouse to that and you have an almost unstoppable combination. Their Frontcourt is filled with Good players. Collins is a good enough coach to do something with this team.

4. Charlotte. This is a Chemistry project through and through. Some would say they are the best in the east. Well, when Healthy they are really good at every position. With the addition of Alexander and the fan support they should get, they might muster up a lot of vics.

5. Orlando. The return of Hill. You guys forgot that Hill was the leader of triple doubles when Kidd was playing? If Kidd can make such a big impact in Jersey, what do you think Hill will do in Orlando?

6. Milwaukee. Yep. Milwaukee is going to make it this yr (if they stay healthy). Aside from selfishness and bad coaching I think another thing that hurt them was injuries. We'll see if Karl can earn his money.

7. US. We have a really good team. We don't have much perimeter shooting. However, defensively we have to make a stand.

8. Boston. By the skin of their teeth. Everybody's talking big about Boston. Again, they were saved by good health. Other than the big two, they have nothing. Baker will give them size but he doesn't fit chemistry wise."

So while I said we would CONTEND for a playoff spot, you said we would MAKE the playoffs. Guess we were both wrong.

All of your talk about chemistry is funny because KG would IMPROVE our chemistry tremendously. Our biggest problems are lack of interior size and lack of ballhandlers. KG is at least 7 feet tall and he's a great ballhandler/passer. Reef is undersized and an average ballhandler/passer at best. Where is the chemistry problem?

Terry Stotts may not be a great coach but he's certainly good enough that he would be able to win with KG here instead of Reef. KG averages 23, 13 and 6 and he doesn't elevate his team? How can a PF put up numbers like that and NOT elevate his team?

[Guest]

He wouldn't make the allstar team as a guard in the East. It's quite a bit easier for guards out West...

[Diesel]

The difference is that I learned the Chemistry lesson.

YOU haven't.

You think that by taking our best and most consistent player and getting a better model that it would make up for the huge chemistry problems that we have.

No one doubts that KG is better than SAR.

The point is that KG is not good enough to make this team work chemistrywise.

BTW, that quote was a direct quote from you... not paraphrased or remembered.

[PoppaFritz]

Chemistry wise we wouldn't be any worse and defensively we would be better. This team has no attitude on defense. KG is more of an emotional player that SAR. This might rub off on the rest of the Hawks. Everyone seems so passive, like they are used to loosing. KG's energy would be a breath of fresh air.

[Diesel]

I agree that defensively we would improve and he would bring more energy...

But JT and Grob are both bad defenders. Energy becomes discouragement.

[Traceman]

He is the ultimate PF. He passes, rebounds, scores, defends and handles/passes the ball extremelt well. Unlike Reef, there are VERY few weaknesses in his arsenal.

It's no different than trading Dog for a SF like Marion or Odom. That would tremendously improve our chemistry as well. Those guys have skills that would compliment Reef and Theo very well just as KG has skills that would compliment Dog and Theo. One of the biggest chemistry problems we have is that Dog and Reef are both poor defneders.

As for the quote, I remember making that statement. I didn't realize just how bad Reef and Dog were going to be on D. Combined withe the fact that JT too allows his man to get by him too easily and we just have too many defensive liabilities in the starting lineup. I always understood that chemistry was important, particularly on the court. Still do.

The quote I attributed to you was a direct quote from you as well... not paraphrased or remembered!

[Guest]

That's why Reef is overrated.The players have

carried Shareef's attitude and look what happens..

They are soft and emotionless and careless.

[Diesel]

That the difference between KG and SAR is

at least

17 games...

Come on Trace.

Again, let me point out to you that Reef is not a problem player. His defense could stand a little work... BUT you mention that Reef is a player with weaknesses in his arsenal. However, no team has ever went out and made Reef the man like KG has been made the man in Minn. Again, Minn is built AROUND KG. He's their focus. If he comes here, with the same coaching that Reef had, I doubt that either guy could make the team become role players to KG.

[Traceman]

That's what you don't get. If KG came here, it wouldn't matter than Dog, JT and Theo had been here longer. He would be the man and they all know it. His game would do all the talking for him. Reef doesn't have the game or the personality to be the man. He was brought here to be the man but he has not stepped up and taken all the responsibility that comes with being the man. He is our best player but he's not the man. That's on him.

Reef was the best player in Vancouver but he wasn't the man there either. He has yet to prove that he is capable of being the man on an NBA team, let alone a GOOD NBA team.

You say that the coaches couldn't make the other players be role players to KG but they wouldn't have to. They would all defer to KG because they all know he would be the best player BY FAR. In addition, KG is not selfish and everyone would still get to take their fair share of shots - usually wide open shots.

I don't know what your definition of a role player is. In one breath, you say that Wally Z would be as good if not better playing elsewhere and in the next breath, you say that Minnesota is filled with role players. Is Wally Z a role player? If he is, then why couldn't Glen Robinson play a similar role if KG were here? Is Troy Hudson a role player? If he is, why couldn't JT play a similar role if KG were here?