The Truth about Gasol

[TexasPete]

I watched Gasol last night in the second half against Portland in the game they lost at the buzzer. I wanted to focus on just Gasol to see if there was something magical he could do to transform the Hawks. First, I'll say that I'm not against getting Gasol in theory. He's a solid NBA player who has low post skills and that is something we certainly need.

But, Gasol plays soft and is not a great defender. Portland was getting into the paint in the second half and Gasol wasn't stopping anything. They attacked the Grizzlies paint and it ended up costing Memphis the game.

The issue with Gasol is that he is more basketball player than athlete. The great players are athletic and have the basketball skill. Gasol's lack of athleticism hurts him when guarding players down low. He's also not particularly strong, or at least he doesn't play like it.

The real issue with Gasol is that Memphis will expect a great deal in return and because Gasol is so flawed defensively, I don't think he will be worth the asking price. He also seemed different last night, he didn't step up at all. When the game is on the line you would think a supposed star player would demand the ball. Instead, he didn't do much and Rudy Gay got the ball. Gasol just looks like he's on the decline a bit. I'm not saying he isn't a very solid NBA player, I'm saying he is likely overrated relative to what he would cost us in a trade.

Watching the game last night opened my eyes. I say let the Bulls or somebody else overpay to get him. We need defense in the paint more than anything and he does not provide it.

[Nicholasp27]

i agree; gasol isn't a 2-way center and isn't a better rebounder than horford

why give up so much to get him?

sure he can score, but with decent coaching/maturity, jj/smoove/marvin/horford/law/chill can score plenty

[coachx]

If the Hawks keep seeing the Josh Smith that showed up to play vs. the 76ers last night we won't be thinking of Gasol much.

[Diesel]

I don't think Memphis will expect a great deal for Gasol, because the alternative is that they keep him and pay him 13+ million dollars to fit.

I don't have many worries about our defense with Gasol. Horf is a strong defender in the post... we just need somebody who can hinder low post scorers and Gasol is much much better than Zaza.

My thought on Gasol is the fact that he provides low post scoring. We don't have that and against good teams that kills us.

IF tonight's game becomes us just chucking up shots from outside, you will see exactly what I'm talking about. It's not scheme... it's not brand of offense. It's a completely missing skillset. We try to work around it, but in this game if you can't establish inside scoring you will lose. Regardless of how good your defense may be.

[TexasPete]

I've always been under the impression that the Griz want a king's ransom for Gasol and he isn't worth it. However, if that is no longer the case and we could get him for a relative bargain then he may be worth pursuing.

But, the Griz have two nice forwards already in Mike Miller and Gay. They also have a PF/C in Milicic. So, they have a forward glut and we have forwards to offer. It would be hard for them to trade a big and get a forward back. We also know they have 3 PG's...

I'm just not sure how well what we have to trade fits their current team. I guess we'll see what transpires. I'm interested in Lowry because he can be a pretty good PG and is young. An Acie and Lowry young PG tandem would grow and give us a solid future at the position. I will say that Lowry didn't play that well last night but it was just an off game.

[Diesel]

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I've always been under the impression that the Griz want a king's ransom for Gasol and he isn't worth it. However, if that is no longer the case and we could get him for a relative bargain then he may be worth pursuing.

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Don't get me wrong. I don't think Smoove, Zaza and filler are cheap or a bargain by any means. And as you know, I would rather send Marvin than Smoove. Still... I think that the Grizz has to shop Gasol and can't expect a whole lot back.

He doesn't fit into their system (new coach) and their new coach has a very good track record (he should be there a while). I suppose that Memphis wants return on their investment but when you get into that type of situation with teams that can wait you out, you really get into a situation where you have to compromise more than you like.

Here's a hypothetical:

If we offered Marvin, Zaza, Lo, AJ...for Gasol... What would be the draw?

I think the draw would be Marvin and Zaza. Two young players who are on their way up. Their lineup would be:

Darko, Marvin, Gay, Miller, and MCJ... I don't think they would do it, but that would be a formidable team.

However,

If we offered Smoove, Zaza Lo, AJ... they'd be fools not to take the deal. Smoove can play uptempo Pf. Smoove has lots of potential. Smoove is a game changer.

[TexasPete]

I can't see them taking Marvin either and I would also rather include MW than Smith. The problem is that they already have a SF shooter in Miller so Marvin isn't a big deal to them and I don't think Smoove is worth the Gasol I saw last night.

And the Gasol of last night has been the rule so far this season.

[coachx]

I think the Grizz want a SG for their up tempo system. One who could be available is Ben Gordon. While Gordon's defensive defecencies are evident so is his offensive talent being an obvious match for the Grizz's up tempo offensive system.

Problem is you can't trade a 7' allstar for a 6'2' combo guard so another piece has to be included to equal both market value and salary. T. Thomas is only 21 and has too much upside for the Bulls to trade. The Bulls just resigned Norcioni by out bidding the Grizz in free agency so it would not make since to give him to the Gizz when you just competed against them for his services. Ben Wallace's contract and age will be burden for whatever team he finises his carrer with but he can still rebound and play defense. The problem is that the Grizz wants a big who will shut up, rebound and play defense, while their other playes run the floor and d the scoring. Mean while the Bulls need low post scoring for their, more, half court style of offense.

Gordon & Wallace

for Gasol and fillers

In a perfect world the Bulls would love to have both Wallace and Gasol. However, Smith, Norcioni, Thomas, and Grey can holddown the middle with Gasol. You have to give to get. The Bulls sill get to keep Deng under this scenerio.

I doubt the Grizz prefer Wallace's salary and prefer a taller SG but Gasol is no Garnett. Gasol is not perfect so you are not going to get back a perefect player or players for him.

[TexasPete]

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I think the Grizz want a SG for their up tempo system. One who could be available is Ben Gordon. While Gordon's defensive defecencies are evident so is his offensive talent being an obvious match for the Grizz's up tempo offensive system.

Problem is you can't trade a 7' allstar for a 6'2' combo guard so another piece has to be included to equal both market value and salary. T. Thomas is only 21 and has too much upside for the Bulls to trade. The Bulls just resigned Norcioni by out bidding the Grizz in free agency so it would not make since to give him to the Gizz when you just competed against them for his services. Ben Wallace's contract and age will be burden for whatever team he finises his carrer with but he can still rebound and play defense. The problem is that the Grizz wants a big who will shut up, rebound and play defense, while their other playes run the floor and d the scoring. Mean while the Bulls need low post scoring for their, more, half court style of offense.

Gordon & Wallace

for Gasol and fillers

In a perfect world the Bulls would love to have both Wallace and Gasol. However, Smith, Norcioni, Thomas, and Grey can holddown the middle with Gasol. You have to give to get. The Bulls sill get to keep Deng under this scenerio.

I doubt the Grizz prefer Wallace's salary and prefer a taller SG but Gasol is no Garnett. Gasol is not perfect so you are not going to get back a perefect player or players for him.

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I think your right about the shooting guard. And we don't have one to offer. Ben Gordon would fit well there but they would need more than just Gordon. I wonder if a Noah and Gordon might do it. Funny, we don't use Salim but I can see the Grizzlies utilizing his talent. A running 3-pt gunner off the bench.

In fact, almost all teams would use Salim except our jerkoff coach. Same with Shelly.

[coachx]

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Funny, we don't use Salim but I can see the Grizzlies utilizing his talent. A running 3-pt gunner off the bench.

In fact, almost all teams would use Salim except our jerkoff coach. Same with Shelly.

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Agree 100%. Either Salim or West need more minutes at SG (depending on whether defense or scoring is needed on that given night).

No reason JJ should be averging 42 minutes per night. We wonder why he gets a calf strain after that. Five more minutes on the bench for Salim or West to come in and give a high energy spark. We have a defensive and offensive spark plug at the SG position on call every night. Put them to use and save JJ for the stretch run and......maybe even.....naw....I can't say it yet, still to early.

[Diesel]

The Gasol of last night...

Had 15 rebounds and limited the other team to single digit rebounds. Their bigs included: Aldridge 5 rebounds, Outlaw 7 rebounds.

Moreover, he had 4 assists and double digit scoring. Everybody would like better shooting percentage.. but surrounded by JJ, MW, Acie, and Horf, I think he'd get that easily.

[coachx]

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I think your right about the shooting guard. And we don't have one to offer. Ben Gordon would fit well there but they would need more than just Gordon. I wonder if a Noah and Gordon might do it.

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Noah or Thomas included with Gordon probably make it a done deal.

I would speculate the Bulls would rather trade B. Wallace due to his age; and his contract is closer to Gasol's. That being said the Grizzlies would rather have the younger, cheaper, maybe better, and younger alternatives of Thomas or Noah for those same reasons.

Will one side give in ?

I don't see the Bulls parting with Deng no matter what. If they would not trade him for Garnett then it makes no sense to trade him now for Gasol.

[Diesel]

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I think the Grizz want a SG for their up tempo system.

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I wouldn't say that. I would think that it would be an easy transition for Mike Miller to play. Moreover, in an uptempo system, there's not a lot of difference in your "swingmen". In fact, that versatility is preferred (most of the time). I think they'd be after a PF... and depth.

Navarro will be a BU to OG... so their need for SG becomes less. And nobody says anything about Warrick.

[TexasPete]

I do like Gasol but what bothered me last night was really two things:

First, this game was a great basketball game that went back and forth. When PTL needed a bucket they always went to the rack. Either Outlaw, Aldridge, or Roy were looking to get to the dish and they almost always were successful. It was like they were saying "we need a bucket and there's nobody on that squad stopping us inside". When you watch teams with a good post defender, even guys like Diop, it's not so easy to get to the rim. The Blazers didn't not respect the inside presence of the Grizz at all.

Second, with the game on the line the Griz were going to Gay and Miller. Only one time in the last 3 minutes did Gasol touch the ball. And when he did get the ball they rarely doubled him. This is what bothered me. If the Blazers didn't double Gasol regularly, with no real center in the game down the stretch, then Gasol doesn't have quite as much allure as I thought. Because if we make a big move for a guy like Gasol then I want a guy who commands an automatic double team on the block because that is what opens the court for JJ, Marvin, Chill, Law, etc.

Gasol is a solid rebounder. And he is a solid NBA player all around. My only point is that do we trade a guy like Josh Smith for him? Because that is what would have to happen. And I'm not sold on Gasol for Smith.

[TexasPete]

I think Miller can play the SG spot all day, that is true. But, Miller is a huge defensive liability at the 2 and that would kill the Grizz. In fact, Miller would not be able to stop any penetration at all. But offensively, Miller is fine and is really coming on.

I think the Grizz would love a guy like Gordon to run with Miller and Gay.

Gasol will be moved is my guess because when you watch Iavaroni he really loves to run. And Gasol looks out of place in that system.

[Diesel]

I think you're looking at style and not the player.

Go back to Gasol under Fratello. Fratello showed that you can carry a team with Gasol's post game.

Part of Gasol's frustration this year is that they have abandoned his post game. He doesn't fit anymore. Does that mean that he couldn't be an allstar post player? Hell no.

Sometimes change of scenery is good for good players. Look at KG...

Last year, there were several things said about KG...

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KG is almost 31, can't do it by himself, and is the highest paid player in the league, no thanks. I would do it if JJ wasn't involved though.

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-Atlas

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Honestly, the way Josh Smith is dominating inside - if BK said to McHale he was interested in trading for Garnett and said "let's start with Josh Smith" - McHale would be VERY interested.

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-DJ

The same may be true for Gasol.

[TexasPete]

I'm not objecting to Gasol...on the contrary, he would provide some valuable low post scoring and rebounding. I'm only objecting to the likely price tag. If we could get him for Marvin/Z/filler then I would love it. Or, even Marvin and Chill with Z...

I'm just not thrilled with Smoove being in the deal and certainly not a Horford.

[Diesel]

Despite Smoove's good game last night... here's how I reason the money...

IF it's true that Smoove turned down a 10 Million per deal...

Then this offseason, we can expect to pay 10+ million for Smoove. But Let's say it's 10 Million per...

Smoove = 10 Million

Zaza = 4 Million.

Ending contracts = 7 Million.

Next year what's 12 Million now becomes 21 Million in our hands.

Vs. Gasol's 13 Million.

Overall, Gasol is a total savings over Smoove/Zaza.

About the value of the players.

Sure, Smoove is as valuable as Gasol on the open Market.

However, for us....

We don't have a low post scorer.

Even when you watch Horf, he trying to skip into the lane to get his points or he gets his points off of rebounds.

Last night was a good night for Horf... What did he get? 14??

Gasol can get us an average of 20 a night.

20 a night, scoring in the low post... would open the floor for Marvin, JJ, and Chillz. Not to mention with Horf also being in the post, we'd be dangerous.

I was hoping that working out with Hakeem this summer would magically transform Smoove into a low post player... BUT Smoove is a Sf.. or at least he wants to be. Maybe in an uptempo offense, he's a PF. However, without a post presence, we can't win the way we play.

[Johnnybravo4]

There are 20 ppg and there are 20 ppg...Big dog and Reef were 20/8 players, but they both were soft and we lost. Gasol is soft and his offensive production means nothing if we cant stop anyone. There is no way in hell I trade a potential DPOY for Big dog.

[Diesel]

Big Dog was selfish.

Reef didn't know how to pass out of a double team.

Neither were 7 feet tall..

and Neither got over a block a game.

Gasol is better on so many levels that it makes the comparison illegitimate.