Speedy and cap relief

[koncak]

Realistically, when is the earliest point that the Hawks seriously enterian writing off Speedys contract? Does the player have the ability to block a designation that might allow the Hawks to find some cap relief.

Any information people might have on the process would be of interest (rather than rants about how he was a poor signing).

Thanks!

[Guest]

There is no "writing off" of contracts in the NBA. We actually discussed this topic in another very recent thread (within the past 5 hours), so you should check out that thread to understand the situation instead of staring a completely new thread about the same subject.

[NJHAWK]

I believe if a player hasnt played in 2 years because of injury you can get relief the next season with most of his deal coming off the cap. The problem is Speedy has played this year so 2 years from now will be the last of his 4 year deal anyway. The only hope we have is if somebody is willing to take his deal on in a multi-player trade to get one or 2 of our young guys. Its possible but I doubt it.

[AHF]

Since we now have inaccurate info on this thread, here is the only provision of the CBA that could really help us:

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There is one exception whereby a player can continue to receive his salary, but the salary is not included in the team's team salary. This is when a player is forced to retire for medical reasons and a league-appointed physician confirms that he is medically unfit to continue playing. There is a waiting period of

one year

following the injury or illness before a team can apply for this salary cap relief. If the waiting period expires mid-season (on any date prior to the last day of the regular season), then the player's entire salary for that season is removed from the team's team salary. For example, in March 2003 the Knicks were allowed to remove Luc Longley's entire 2002-03 salary from their books (and since the luxury tax is based on the team salary as of the last day of the regular season, the Knicks avoided paying any tax on Longley's salary). This provision can also be used when a player dies while under contract.

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http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#53

[NJHAWK]

Then tell me why the Twolves had to wait 2 years for T. Brandons cap exemption. You know the one we got for Big Hog. I remember they could not get it until two years after the last nba action he played in. If thats the case with Speedy as it was with Brandon we cant get his salry off the books until Nov of 2009 since he played some minutes this year.

[NJHAWK]

That link you posted also says teams cant trade for injued players and get cap relief. However that is EXACTLY what the Hawks did with Brandon. His 11 million dollar salary came off our cap and was alsmost paid in full by insurance the following Feb. after that summer trade, exactly 2 YEARS after his last action. That was the whole reason we did the trade, not only to dump Hogs salary but to pay almost nothing to Brandon out of our pockets.

[exodus]

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That link you posted also says teams cant trade for injued players and get cap relief. However that is EXACTLY what the Hawks did with Brandon.

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That was under a different CBA.

[AHF]

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That was the whole reason we did the trade, not only to dump Hogs salary but to pay almost nothing to Brandon out of our pockets.

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Whether insurance covers most of the cost of a player's salary has nothing to do with cap relief. You can have a player who you don't have to pay because insurance covers him who doesn't qualify for the injury/retirement cap relief scenario. Likewise, you could have someone who is not ensurable and who you would have to pay 100% of his salary who could come off the books because he is injured/retired.

Regarding why the rules are different now from what they were more than 4 years ago when we traded for Brandon, I suspect they have changed.

Larry Coon is a VERY reliable source for information on the CBA.

[NJHAWK]

Yes I know that the insurance has nothing to do with cap relief but the Hawks got the best of both worlds. They got the cap relief that Feb. and they got his salary paid by insurance. I understand what you and Exodus are saying that the nba is under a new cba now. Howevr the example that Coon gives using Luc Longley is from 2002-2003 which I think was the same time period of the Brandon trade so he cant be talking about the new cba. I hope you guys are right and if Speedy gets an injury retirement we can get his salary off the books sometime next season.

[exodus]

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Howevr the example that Coon gives using Luc Longley is from 2002-2003

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That is a completely different situation from the Brandon trade that gave the Hawks cap relief. Lonley wasn't traded.

[NJHAWK]

No Longley wasnt traded. The thing is even if the Twolves didnt trade Brandon to us that summer they also had to wait till the following FEB. for the cap relief, 2 years after Brandons knee injury and his last game action. We got the relief exactly when the Twolves would have gotten it if they kept him. Him being traded had nothing to do with when the cap relief came, just who got it.

[exodus]

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We got the relief exactly when the Twolves would have gotten it if they kept him. Him being traded had nothing to do with when the cap relief came, just who got it.

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The difference is that now you cant trade for that player to get cap relief. At that time you could.

[TheDude]

so long story short...if it can be shown that speedy can't play, can we get CAP RELEIF from him and if so what is the waiting period once this is shown?

and also, what needs to be shown or proven for this to occur.

[mrhonline]

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so long story short...if it can be shown that speedy can't play, can we get CAP RELEIF from him and if so what is the waiting period once this is shown?

and also, what needs to be shown or proven for this to occur.

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I'm awaiting answers from the famous Larry Coon as I type...

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=727263

[NJHAWK]

Still the example that Coon gives is from 2002-2003 which is about the time the Brandon deal was done. So why would the Twolves have had to wait 2 years after Brandon stoped playing to get cap relief when that link says the Knicks only had to wait one year. I would assume both the Brandon cap relief and Longley cap relief came under the same cba since they werent that far apart from each other. What I want to know is would we have to wait one or two years if Speedy got a doctors note today that said he was done. Remember even if the rule has changed about trading injured players that has nothing to do with the Longley example since its from 2002-2003. The Brandon trade happened in the summer of 2003. We got the cap relief in Feb of 2004 which is when the Twolves were expecting it if they had kept him. Brandon last played in Feb of 2002, they had to wait 2 years for him to be off their cap.

[AHF]

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Still the example that Coon gives is from 2002-2003 which is about the time the Brandon deal was done. So why would the Twolves have had to wait 2 years after Brandon stoped playing to get cap relief when that link says the Knicks only had to wait one year. I would assume both the Brandon cap relief and Longley cap relief came under the same cba since they werent that far apart from each other. What I want to know is would we have to wait one or two years if Speedy got a doctors note today that said he was done. Remember even if the rule has changed about trading injured players that has nothing to do with the Longley example since its from 2002-2003. The Brandon trade happened in the summer of 2003. We got the cap relief in Feb of 2004 which is when the Twolves were expecting it if they had kept him. Brandon last played in Feb of 2002, they had to wait 2 years for him to be off their cap.

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Longley was under the same CBA. Longley last played in the 2000-01 season. Two years, same as with Longley.

[thesheedera]

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Still the example that Coon gives is from 2002-2003 which is about the time the Brandon deal was done. So why would the Twolves have had to wait 2 years after Brandon stoped playing to get cap relief when that link says the Knicks only had to wait one year. I would assume both the Brandon cap relief and Longley cap relief came under the same cba since they werent that far apart from each other. What I want to know is would we have to wait one or two years if Speedy got a doctors note today that said he was done. Remember even if the rule has changed about trading injured players that has nothing to do with the Longley example since its from 2002-2003. The Brandon trade happened in the summer of 2003. We got the cap relief in Feb of 2004 which is when the Twolves were expecting it if they had kept him. Brandon last played in Feb of 2002, they had to wait 2 years for him to be off their cap.

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Longley was under the same CBA. Longley last played in the 2000-01 season. Two years, same as with Longley.

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AHF, help. I'm not up to speed on any of this, and you're usually good about getting to the point.

In layman's terms, what are reasonable expectations of the best case (middle case if neccessary) and worst case scenarios involving Speedy - ASSUMING that he isn't healthy at any point this season.

[AHF]

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Still the example that Coon gives is from 2002-2003 which is about the time the Brandon deal was done. So why would the Twolves have had to wait 2 years after Brandon stoped playing to get cap relief when that link says the Knicks only had to wait one year. I would assume both the Brandon cap relief and Longley cap relief came under the same cba since they werent that far apart from each other. What I want to know is would we have to wait one or two years if Speedy got a doctors note today that said he was done. Remember even if the rule has changed about trading injured players that has nothing to do with the Longley example since its from 2002-2003. The Brandon trade happened in the summer of 2003. We got the cap relief in Feb of 2004 which is when the Twolves were expecting it if they had kept him. Brandon last played in Feb of 2002, they had to wait 2 years for him to be off their cap.

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Longley was under the same CBA. Longley last played in the 2000-01 season. Two years, same as with Longley.

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AHF, help. I'm not up to speed on any of this, and you're usually good about getting to the point.

In layman's terms, what are reasonable expectations of the best case (middle case if neccessary) and worst case scenarios involving Speedy - ASSUMING that he isn't healthy at any point this season.

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Best case is that the NBA doctor visits, declares him unfit to play and he retires. Under that scenario, his salary comes off the cap and he still gets paid (with insurance kicking in most of that money).

Worst case scenario is he drags this out like Grant Hill did in Orlando and refuses to retire and we just end up eating his contract for the next few years. The same thing happens if he is willing to retire but the NBA won't declare him unfit to play.

[mrhonline]

You'd think we'd just discussed this in another thread...

[NJHAWK]

So it is 2 years after all then or at least it was for the example Coon gave. Then why the hell did he say it was one when it is two. I wish Speedy would get a heart transplant cause that is what he really need.