Trade Talk... Target Golden State.

[Guest]

I am looking at most of the stuff I can read about GS and they are in a world of HURT.....ANd a World of Growth... Similar to us...

Anyway lets talk FAs.

Well, the most important FA that they have is:

Larry Hughes. I have read both the positive and negative on this guy. I really think he will turn out alright. After an awesome first yr with Philly, he was traded (IVerson rules) to GS. The problem is that GS has never had a good PG that could make a player like Hughes Better. So instead of trading Jamison for Kidd Last yr, GS decided to draft Richardson (not bad) and make Hughes into a PG...

Well, now he's a FA and GS needs to conserve money so that they can pay Richardson and Dunleavy in the future. I will get back to MR. Hughes.

Then there's their unwanted players... up for Trade.

That would be Fortson, Mills, and Dampiere. Unwanted because of Contracts... mainly. Anywho, Damp should be better than he has shown. Fortson is really good but undersized. Plus he's a 6'7" PF whoose weight fluctuates. Both contracts are wanted out of GS. Both probably will be used in a trade?? But only for ending contracts. Again... Richardson and Dunleavy are the future.

Finally, there's the surprise. between NOW and 2005, Jamison must be traded. They found that they gave him too much money. He is not in the longterm plans for GS. They have problems with:

1. His defense.

2. The number of shots he takes. ( he cries if he doesn't get enough???)

3. His lack of post up offense.

On to the next thing..

What does GS want.

They want:

1. A PG..... They haven't had a really good PG since T-Hardaway.

2. A defensive C with offensive ability. Damp has never got it done for them. Foyle is either injured or pitiful. I don't know why they gave up on Jackson so soon??

3. A Coach. I hear that they are looking at:

a. Van Gundy

b. Dunleavy Sr.

c. P.J.

d. or just let Brian Winters stay and save money while rebuilding.

Well, St. Jean doesn't seem to be that smart, so I guess he will do what is not best for the team and go for Dunleavy Sr. It may produce wins in the short term but I can see the team unravelling under the criticism of favoritism (and the sad part is Dunleavy Jr. is probably the best player on that team anyway).

What deal can be struck with the Hawks?

Well, they have need for a PG of the future.

1st....

JV/CC for Larry Hughes.

This would require that they have found a way to dump Damp and maybe Fortson on someone else (SA). As a matter of fact, I can see Steve Smith being traded to GS for Damp/Mills or something like that.

Anywho, JV is a starter quality PG for a team with talent at the other positions. I think he would fit nicely with them and could show up as the player everyone thought he could be.

2nd..

JT/Toni/CC to GS for Jamison.

Before you fans scarf at this trade.... Toni and CC's contracts will end before Richardson is ready for renewal. JT would be a great PG for them. He can score and he doesn't wilt under pressure anymore.

The question is how does Jamison fit in Atl?

Well, we don't care about his post up offense. IN fact, the fact that he flashes through the lane is a perfect compliment to SAR. Defensively, he sucks, but we have Theo and as long as he can be aware on defense, we will be good. The last question is number of shots. Well with JT gone, we'd be like Boston.. Except we'd be better all over. It's all dependent on Dickau. If he is what they say he is, we can resign Vaughn (~4 million per for 4 yrs) then make Dickau our Starter in training.

DD/DJ/AJ/SAR/Theo.

[Traceman]

1) GS is NOT going to take CC's contract in order to get JV when they can probably sign JV to a minimum contract (or slightly higher).

2) If we want Hughes, the mid level exception is as much as he's worth, we don't need to do a sign and trade. We are not going to sign Hughes in a sign and trade AND then use the exception anyway due to the luxury tax.

3) Here's the kicker! JT/Kukoc/CC for Jamison? Are you out of your mind? I wouldn't trade JT for Jamison straight up, let alone throw in Toni and CC. Jamison is a decent player but he IS overpaid. Why in the hell would we give up our team leader who is BETTER than Jamison anyway, for an overpaid guy who has proven that he CAN'T lead. I wouldn't be opposed to taking on Jamison if he could be had for a MUCH lower price (some combination of Kukoc/Nazr/Glover/pick/etc) but for JT? No way! And your assessment of Jamison couldn't be further off. "His lack of post up offense." What? That's his STRENGTH! He scores in the low post by using his quickness against bigger/slower PFs or by overpowering undersized SFs. He's very similar to SAR in that regard, he's just not as good. Why do you think he wants to play PF? I'll tell you why. Because he likes to get the ball in the low post. That's why he wants Fortson gone. He is not nearly as effective on the perimeter. I can't believe you said that Jamison's low post game was his weakness! That's like saying SAR's low post game is his weakness. Crazy!

[Guest]

I agree,,,,quit slapping JT in the face....It's one thing to want

to trade him for a better player,but it's another thing to trade

him for a lazy piece of [censored] like Jamison and his Oh-Lay defense.

He's been in GS 3 years now and they haven't improved by a

game.That is embarassing for a first option can't even improve

his team IN THE SLIGHTEST.

Honestly,I think Reef/Jamison would clog things up inside.Too

bad Jamisons 44% shooting doesn't agree that he is a good

perimeter shooter for a Forward.

[Hawksfreak]

I'm sorry to say this,but that is an awful trade toni/jt/cc for antwan awful trade.

[Guest]

1. Do you honestly THink JV wants another Min Contract? You got to be out of your mind. IF all he wanted was a min contract, we could resign him right now.

In reply to:

---

2) If we want Hughes, the mid level exception is as much as he's worth, we don't need to do a sign and trade. We are not going to sign Hughes in a sign and trade AND then use the exception anyway due to the luxury tax.

---

First off, have you been listening to a word that Babcock has said?? Babcock has said that there will be trades coming. If so, then that Exception becomes important if we have to fill a roster spot with somebody better than a CBA reject. Did you learn nothing from E Davis?

In reply to:

---

3) Here's the kicker! JT/Kukoc/CC for Jamison? Are you out of your mind? I wouldn't trade JT for Jamison straight up, let alone throw in Toni and CC. Jamison is a decent player but he IS overpaid. Why in the hell would we give up our team leader who is BETTER than Jamison anyway, for an overpaid guy who has proven that he CAN'T lead.

---

Stop right here. First of all, I preferenced that whole scenerio by stating if Dickau can prove he's ready to be a good player on this level.

Coming out of the summer (exhibitions) if we have high confidence in Dickau, then JT indeed becomes trade bait.

Why?

#1. JT is not a great PG.

#2. JT is too small to play 2.

We still have holes in the 3 position. I say Jamison because Jamison's game compliments SAR's game. That's 2 high scorers at the forward positions. Add that with a Dickau who can run and score... And we have the makings of a very good team. Like Boston but better.

[Traceman]

If JV is not good enough to be our BACKUP PG, why do you think he is worth more than the minimum to a team like GS? GS is trying to CUT salary. That is why they let Hughes walk in the first place. They could have got a lot more in a sign and trade for Hughes than JV that's for sure. They are trying to cut salary. By the way, even if we could resign JV to a minimum contract, we wouldn't because Dickau is going to be our backup PG.

As far as Davis goes, I have no problem with him at all. He can still contribute as a role player off the bench at a bargain basement salary. Hughes at or near the exception for us would be fine with me.

First of all, if Dickau DOMINATES the summer league, I still wouldn't trade JT. Glover dominated the summer league last year and what did he prove against real competition? Second, JT might not be a great PG YET, but I think he is already one of the better ones in the NBA. If he gets to play the vast majority of his time at PG this year as he did the 2nd half of last year, his name will be mentioned with the Nashs, Millers and Marburys of the world. Third, Jamison WANTED GS to draft Dunleavy so he could move to PF. He is CLEARLY more comfortable at PF. Jamison is not a great SF and he is too small to defend PFs. I don't seem him as an ideal compliment to Reefs game as they are virtually the same player (Reef is just better). I wouldn't mind trying SAR and Jamison together but certainly not at the expense of JT.

Jamison has very similar problems to the ones you are trying to place on JT but I think JT has a better chance of overcoming his problems than Jamison does. Besides, JT's just a better player. Period!

[Guest]

JV is a very good PG. He's good enough to be our BU or our starter.

The problem is that we don't want to pay him his worth. Which is why he will go elsewhere.

One thing I credit Babs for learning is that you can fill some holes with cheap players. Not E Davis.. But getting JV last yr at the vet min was a steal. It will not happen again.

[jaywalker72]

He was a solid backup, but the offense did not roll with him in the lineup....

He got some assists, and played hard, no question, and he was worth the money we paid him, but the offense did not get going when JV was in there...And he was in, at times, when Reef and JT were also...

I also disagree with the statement that we won't be able to find another cheap replacement again.

Just like a good relief pitcher, if you can find a quality backup cheap once, you can likely do it again.

Especially in the age of the Incredible Shrinking Revenues, there are more players seeking less money, meaning it's a buyer's market, and it will keep players like Jacque's value down.

I feel the same way about Ira Newble. We should NOT overpay to bring him back here, meaning that anything above 1 million a year is ridiculous. I expect I will see 4 or 5 Newble-types at Philips this week during the Summer workouts.

Replacement Value players should always be compensated as such.

Paying Vaughn anything more than he received last year to continue to be a backup would be irresponsible.

[Guest]

First of all,Jamison/Reef doesn't equal PP/Walker....

PP/Walker aren't undersized,they can create their

own shots on the perimeter with EASE, and have

alot more quickness compaired to Jamison/Reef.

Second of all,Jason Terry is our leader...If we

where going to trade him I doubt he would be

the first one there to bring in new players.Jt is

our spokes person and the heart and soul of the

Hawks sorta like Ben Wallace is the heart and

soul of Detroit.....Jt will NOT be traded and I

wouldn't trade him to keep Dan Dickau unless

Dan is a 9-11APG type of PG...If he isn't that,

then JT stays here over him.

I'm happy with the PG situation now.Finally

Emai is knocked down to the 3rd slot on

the roster and we have two guys(hopefully)

that can get the job done.

[Traceman]

It's not the we don't want to pay him what he's worth, we don't want to pay him AT ALL. We think Dickau is going to be a better player and therefore, we have no desire to bring him back. NONE!

JV is a solid backup but solid backups are the players who get the veteran's minimum. I hope he does get more but I don't see it happening.

[ATLien_]

Actually trace I think Jaqcue played himself off this team. He played so well last year that he is worth more money than we are willing to give him.

As for Dickau I hope he will be better than Jaque, but I don't think he is why we didn't sign him back. If you look at Babcock's comments he never sounded like we were going to resign JV. Even befored the draft.

I think it's because JV wants to go somewhere and start.

[Traceman]

I think JV played well last year but there are a number of players out there who can do what he does and that makes his market value very low. In addition, backup PGs are by far the lowest paid of all NBA players. Teams will pay a backup Center $5 million/season because good big men are so hard to find but decent backup PGs are fairly easy to come by.

Look at the competition JV has. Guys like McInnis, Billups, Rod Strickland, Eric Strickland, Hughes, Hudson, Best, House and Childs are likely to be scooped up before JV is. Then, he has to compete with guys like Anthony, Barros, Blaylock, Damon Jones, Ollie, Terry Porter, etc. Then, he has the young guys with potential like Earl Watson, Kenny Satterfield, Jason Hart, William Avery and AJ Guyton, Rafer Alston, etc. Without even trying, I've named 20+ guys without jobs who JV will be competing with for limited money.

If JV wants $3 million/season and Greg Anthony or Kevin Ollie will take the minimum, is JV THAT much better than those guys? That is the problem he will run into. I think he may get a little more than the minimum and he might get a multi year deal, but I doubt he gets much more than that.

[Guest]

In reply to:

---

PP/Walker aren't undersized,they can create their

own shots on the perimeter with EASE, and have

alot more quickness compaired to Jamison/Reef

---

So you believe that Walker is an average size PF?

:lol

Secondly, the reason why we'd be better than Boston.....

1. Nobody on Boston team has the low post ability that SAR has. They make him look like Shaq.

2. We actually have a better surrounding Cast than Boston.

Theo/DJ/DD are much better than Rogers, ?, and Anderson.

3. Finally, While our guys are not the three point shooters that Walker and Pierce are... Our guys shoot a much higher percentage while not hogging up all the shots. Look at the #s. Walker and Pierce rank 1 and 3 in Shots attempted. Neither one of them are averaging 28 ppg... So what gives? What gives is that they are shooting and missing a lot. SAR is a 50% FG% and even though Jamison is only 42% :lol... At Sf, his and SAR's FG% would increase because neither would be the focus of the defense. That's something that Boston could enjoy but both of their stars are chucking it up.

[Admin]

If we cant get McInnis and his height in here, lets bring in Hudson. I am having a very hard time believing that the Magic are going to let him get away. Everytime I saw this guy play I was very impressed by him. He is electric and the kid knows how to score. He is a JT type of PG with a little more strength and not quite the outside shot. I would prefer McInnis in a two fold buy out of Emails contract, but adding Hudson wouldnt hurt my feelings.

[Guest]

In reply to:

---

It's not the we don't want to pay him what he's worth, we don't want to pay him AT ALL. We think Dickau is going to be a better player and

therefore, we have no desire to bring him back.

---

Nope. We didn't think that DD is better?? Where do you get this crap. JV played well enough to prove that he's worthy of at least a 3 million dollar per deal. That's something we are not willing to pay for a PG.. So , we got a cheaper guy in DD. I wouldn't be surprised if JV is signed to a 3 mil per deal and traded (SNT) to another team who has need for a PG to play at least 27 mpg.

In fact, a deal to Utah is not totally out of the question.

This will be the topic of my trade of the day so stay tuned.

[Traceman]

[Guest]

the win because there two best players would be better

tha nour two best players.Walker is about 6'10 245 pounds

which is better than Shareef.Jamison is loser.He will never

play a kep role in a winning team.

PP/Walker also have alot better ball handling skills than

Reef/Jamison have.And one of their players are actually

ones you can count on when the game is on the line.

There defense would also be better than ours so they

would still win.

Jamison sucks,JT is the better player.We would have

two player clogging the inside and nobody at the other

positions that can create their own shot at the NBA

level.Put that together we our woeful defense and total

inexperience in the backcourt and there is no way in

hell we would beat Boston.

[Admin]

Because at that point I would feel comfortable sending off DG in a trade or even buying out Email. Also, I am not ready to have DD be our main BU yet, at least not until he proves himself some......I am confident that eventually he will be able to handle it, but theres no telling how long it will take.

[Hawksfreak]

I'm with ya dolfan23 we don't need Troy Hunson we already have quality PG's