Aldridge: Hawks trying to sell Joe on contender status.

[mrhonline]

A lot of good info here:

Atlanta tried to sell Johnson on a simple premise besides the money: no matter where he went if he went elsewhere, he wouldn't be playing with two top-10 talents at their positions as he has in Atlanta with Josh Smith and All-Star Al Horford.But the Hawks' basketball people had to do as good a sales job on the team's ownership group as they did with Johnson just to get a commitment to offer Johnson the max. It's hardly a secret that the team is for sale, or that new coach Larry Drew's affordability was a key component in his hiring, as important as his long-recognized ability.

It's not that the Hawks would fall apart with Butler or anyone else in the backcourt next season; far from it. With Smith and Horford around, Atlanta would surely make the playoffs again. But the Hawks wouldn't be a contender.

And therein lies the difference of opinion. I in no way see the Hawks as contenders because of their "big 3." I see it as a solid team, but far from a contender.

What say you? Are the Hawks overrating their core?

And if the Hawks don't break through in the East in the next couple of seasons, Johnson will only be 31 in the summer of 2012, and still have a lot of teams interested in his services. You can always trade him, the argument went; someone will rise up in the next few years into contender status, and teams on the rise tend to be more willing to go all-in for a year or two and make a trade for a high-priced player.

I'm also of the opinion that the Hawks are wrong here, too. There really isn't a whole lot of precedent for trading aging guards on that massive a deal.

NBA.com

Edited July 1, 2010 by mrhonline

[Sothron]

We have zero chance of advancing past the second round unless we make a major trade for a superstar. I don't care what they told Joe.

[mrhonline]

This does seem to indicate the Hawks will not be bringing in any other significant free agents.

[Joker]

A lot of good info here:

And therein lies the difference of opinion. I in no way see the Hawks as contenders because of their "big 3." I see it as a solid team, but far from a contender.

What say you? Are the Hawks overrating their core?

I'm also of the opinion that the Hawks are wrong here, too. There really isn't a whole lot of precedent for trading aging guards on that massive a deal.

I think the media is trying to speak for Joe more than Joe to the media. They are angry because this takes always a big part of the plan for networks. No one cares about the Hawks nationally. It's about Lebron, Melo, CP3, Wade, Dwight, big markets and f all other things. So this really makes no sense. Aldridge has been trying to sell other teams so much and is talking like Butler does something for the Hawks other then a 10-13 lottery pick in 2011 when we have a better piece in Marvin. ESPN gameplan, cut all small markets from the pie. Joe in Atlanta means Atlanta on ESPN which isn't as good for ratings as Joe in NY. NY as a 3rd seed is much bigger ratings than Atlanta as a 3rd seed as seen in the 2009-10 playoffs for Atlanta.

Edited July 1, 2010 by nbasuperstar40

[mrhonline]

They are angry because this takes always a big part of the plan for networks. No one cares about the Hawks nationally.

That's a bit of a stretch. Aldridge is reporting his understanding of the events leading up to the max offer. I think he did a decent job of staying objective, the last parenthetical comment notwithstanding.

[Diesel]

A lot of good info here:

And therein lies the difference of opinion. I in no way see the Hawks as contenders because of their "big 3." I see it as a solid team, but far from a contender.

What say you? Are the Hawks overrating their core?

I'm also of the opinion that the Hawks are wrong here, too. There really isn't a whole lot of precedent for trading aging guards on that massive a deal.

NBA.com

The deal doesn't have to be massive. Boston got Ray Allen for the 5th pick overall. And Allen was what? 34?

I think that we can trade Joe eventually (if need be). I also don't think that we're not contenders. First off, I think we have gotten rid of a coach who couldn't contend. The jury is out on Drew. Secondly, I think that we will wheel and deal some other players.

[sturt]

Funny how Aldridge so quickly regains credibility around here... almost ha-ha funny... really... I giggled.

[Guest]

I'm also of the opinion that the Hawks are wrong here, too. There really isn't a whole lot of precedent for trading aging guards on that massive a deal.

I am not so sure about this. Ray Allen had almost an identical deal when the Celtics brought him in. Steve Smith when he was traded from Portland to San Antonio. Mitch Richmond from Sacramento to Washington. Clyde Drexler, although he requested to be traded. Iverson had a similar deal, although dissimilar circumstances.

What I still don't get is why reports claim the ASG are willing to give the deal because they don't think they will own the team. This makes no sense, any potential buyer will discount the team based on their current salary cap situation. And if Joe's contract is an albatross at the time, well then the potential owners will accordingly discount their offer. So they may not physically pay Joe all the money, but they implicitly do because of lost value in the franchise.

[Tumbleweed]

This does seem to indicate the Hawks will not be bringing in any other significant free agents.

I think this move is to insure that the Hawks get a S&T for JJ. They basically did

him a big favor, by him not having to negotiate price with anyone. This takes the

teams under the Cap out of the picture unless they want to do a S&T like everyone

else. So now big JJ just decides where he wants to live, then the Hawks see if

they can work out something to their satisfaction.

This may wind up being a good move by Sund, it will not be a good move if his

a$$ winds up back in a Hawks uniform next year!

[Joker]

Why is there much talk to trade Joe, when we have pieces to make moves. We are not the Hornets, have can actually get better by moving players.

[Diesel]

What I still don't get is why reports claim the ASG are willing to give the deal because they don't think they will own the team. This makes no sense, any potential buyer will discount the team based on their current salary cap situation. And if Joe's contract is an albatross at the time, well then the potential owners will accordingly discount their offer. So they may not physically pay Joe all the money, but they implicitly do because of lost value in the franchise.

I disagree. If the Hawks are contenders, new owners would like that. Imagine how much you can make in TV sales, radio sales, marketing.

Moreover, JJ is a 4 time allstar with the Hawks.

Nique went how many times?

JJ could be the most accomplished player to ever play with the Hawks.

[mrhonline]

The final season of Allen's deal was 32.5% of the salary cap. Joe's deal starts at 30%.

The final season of Allen's deal was $18.8M. The second season of Joe's deal will be around $18.5M.

The final season of Allen's deal was $18.8M. The final season of Joe's deal will be around $25.6M.

Joe's deal totals $40M more than Allen's deal.

This is a MASSIVE contract.

[CongoP]

David Aldridge is a Duck

[Joker]

The final season of Allen's deal was 32.5% of the salary cap. Joe's deal starts at 30%.

The final season of Allen's deal was $18.8M. The second season of Joe's deal will be around $18.5M.

The final season of Allen's deal was $18.8M. The final season of Joe's deal will be around $25.6M.

Joe's deal totals $40M more than Allen's deal.

This is a MASSIVE contract.

Agree, no other way around it.

[gutz]

We have zero chance of advancing past the second round unless we make a major trade for a superstar. I don't care what they told Joe.

I disagree here. You honestly don't think we could be a much better team without Woody running the offense? we will actually be a running team with Drew I believe orchestrating the offense. Just look how ISO we were in the Orlando series with ZERO ball movement. We could of beaten Orlando with a REAL gameplan on offense. This team simply tuned out Woody's plan of 'just let them play' on offense. Everyone on our team will be better next year and with a new coach actually running offensive sets we can only get better and more cohesive. We can definitely make it past the second round with this team.

[Diesel]

The final season of Allen's deal was 32.5% of the salary cap. Joe's deal starts at 30%.

The final season of Allen's deal was $18.8M. The second season of Joe's deal will be around $18.5M.

The final season of Allen's deal was $18.8M. The final season of Joe's deal will be around $25.6M.

Joe's deal totals $40M more than Allen's deal.

This is a MASSIVE contract.

Uhm. The cap and the tax has risen about 15 Million Dollars since the Allen Deal. Maybe more.

[Guest]

I disagree. If the Hawks are contenders, new owners would like that. Imagine how much you can make in TV sales, radio sales, marketing.

Moreover, JJ is a 4 time allstar with the Hawks.

Nique went how many times?

JJ could be the most accomplished player to ever play with the Hawks.

So you disagree that a potential owner will discount the team based on the salary cap situation? What that means, is you are saying a potential owner will not discount the team based on the salary cap. You are suggesting that a potential owner will not care if we are paying the luxury tax or have cap room to sign extra free agents.

That is asinine. Of course a potential owner will discount the team based on current contracts. That is the biggest cost to owning a team and you are suggesting they don't care. Now if you want to say that Joe's value to the team will be greater than the cost, then that is not a disagreement with anything I have said. I have only mentioned that a potential owner will discount the team if the contract is a burden and so the ASG will still feel the affects of the contract even though they don't physically pay Joe the rest of the money.

[Chinky_eyed_hawk]

We have zero chance of advancing past the second round unless we make a major trade for a superstar. I don't care what they told Joe.

Am I the only one who thinks that joe+ smith+horford+ a reliable PG/C is all we really need to get over the hump?? I think the lack of guard play and a body in the post is what hurt us the most. I am not one to think the whole team needs to be blown up due to our team being swept. We know we were handicapped by our coaching philosophy.

[AHF]

The final season of Allen's deal was 32.5% of the salary cap. Joe's deal starts at 30%.

The final season of Allen's deal was $18.8M. The second season of Joe's deal will be around $18.5M.

The final season of Allen's deal was $18.8M. The final season of Joe's deal will be around $25.6M.

Joe's deal totals $40M more than Allen's deal.

This is a MASSIVE contract.

You are better off using %s of the cap than absolute dollars. I expect that cap to rise again as the economy improves. It is a bigger deal than Allen's but not a massive difference if JJ doesn't fall off a cliff in the interim, IMO.

[mrhonline]

Uhm. The cap and the tax has risen about 15 Million Dollars since the Allen Deal. Maybe more.

Ha ha. You realize that's verifiable, right?