Give Me A Good Reason Why We Shouldnt Play Rose Straight Up Like We Did Dwight

[BusBoyIsBack]

People keep saying that it's different because Derrick Rose can pass and Dwight can't. Or they say that Dwight is always in the same place 5 feet away from the basket.

Take a designated player such as Jeff Teague. Make him shadow Derrick Rose wherever he goes. Give him a 8-10 feet cushion if you want. If he blows by Teague even with the cushion, then LET HIM

Now it will go against everything players have been taught, but it will help us win this series because if you don't give any help on any of those dribble penetrations, then Rose can't create for his teammates.

Then we expose them as a one man team just like Orlando. Even though they have a few more guys who can create their own offense than Orlando, if we play them straight up we have enough defenders to shut them down. First of all someone like Kyle Korver especially would be shut down. And if you put Josh Smith on Luol Deng he could pretty much put him on lock as well.

On pick and rolls when they try to get Rose open, the man who's player he's guarding who goes for the pick. STAY WITH HIM. Don't switch. Not a single time. Force Rose to be a one man band.

And even on some of those amazing drives to the basket, Derrick Rose although he's improved greatly at this, he doesn't always finish. Not nearly as much of a sure thing as a Howard Jam.

Because no matter what, he's not going to be more efficient from the floor and the FT line combined than Dwight Howard was. Dwight Howard was 67% in terms of true shooting percentage in that series on 27 PPG. I cannot stress enough how impossible it would be for a guard to match that particularly the 63% from the floor

Edited April 30, 2011 by BusBoyIsBack

[buckeye242424]

It's a very good approach, and it could work. LD needs to evaluate the minutes who's guarding Rose because our match-ups with the rest of the bulls are favorable. Call me crazy, but we match up with the Bulls better than the other two teams left in the East. While I would love to have Kirk, not happening. Damien, Teague, and Joe or Marv could give us solid minutes on him. We're not going to flourish if Jamal is guarding Rose the majority..unless he's getting a few 4 pt. plays.

[sasuke]

Because we don't have to guard Bogans.

If they put Korver as a 2 guard, then you single cover him, but make sure the lane is clogged. Korver or Deng out, go back to double Rose.

We are not going to score as much as we did against the Magic. Rose getting 30 to 40 points will affect us way much more than DH12 scoring 30 or 40. No way in hell you should let that happen.

[BusBoyIsBack]

Because we don't have to guard Bogans.

If they put Korver as a 2 guard, then you single cover him, but make sure the lane is clogged. Korver or Deng out, go back to double Rose.

We are not going to score as much as we did against the Magic. Rose getting 30 to 40 points will affect us way much more than DH12 scoring 30 or 40. No way in hell you should let that happen.

NO it won't. IF we let Rose get 30 to 40 points with basically no assists, we can maybe hold the Bulls team to 80 point range. If we let Rose get his AND double and triple team him it will be like when we tried to double and triple team Howard and Rose will get his AND his teammates will get theirs. That's how the Bulls would score 100+ points and we would get destroyed because we aren't going to score more than the 80 range on them

We can't stop him even if we double him, so let him get his. But force Noah, Boozer, and Deng to create their own offense.

If we can't afford anything it's allowing those guys to get high percentage and easy looks. Then we have no chance. I really hope Larry Drew is aware enough to see this

Edited May 1, 2011 by BusBoyIsBack

[Peoriabird]

There was a time when Hawks fans least concern was dribble penetration because of the Josh Smith factor. What ever happened to that guy?

[Crank]

NO it won't. IF we let Rose get 30 to 40 points with basically no assists, we can maybe hold the Bulls team to 80 point range. If we let Rose get his AND double and triple team him it will be like when we tried to double and triple team Howard and Rose will get his AND his teammates will get theirs. That's how the Bulls would score 100+ points and we would get destroyed because we aren't going to score more than the 80 range on them

We can't stop him even if we double him, so let him get his. But force Noah, Boozer, and Deng to create their own offense.

If we can't afford anything it's allowing those guys to get high percentage and easy looks. Then we have no chance. I really hope Larry Drew is aware enough to see this

You really arent paying attention

Your strategy that he wont get assists because no one will help ignores the fact that if no one helps he will be throwing down crushing dunks.

The Bulls offensive players are not nearly as explosive as the magic shooters

Why cant we stop him if we double him and get the ball out of his hands and make the likes of Keith Bogans make more shots

You have no concept of basketball strategy there are things called momentum .

The Magics confidence didnt feed off Dwight they fed off the threes . Derrick Roses supporting cast confidence feeds off of his play when he doesnt play well they struggle badly you dont want him doing whatever he wants

.

To beat the Bulls in a 7 game series we have to get ahead and to do that we need to disrupt what they do

Double Rose primarily from Bogans while attacking Deng,Rose, and Boozer offensively

If we take game one that puts them in a position they have never been in before . Rose will then force the issue more we saw this against the Pacers they simply didnt have enough offense to take advantage of it as the series went alone

The key is you dont just employ just one strategy you employ several and keep making adjustments the key is to get hem playing catchup.

If we win game one you employ some zone in game two you double team other players like Korver or Deng at various times .

You have to take that team out of its comfort zone and that comfort zone is Derrick Rose playing well ....everything they do offensively is based on that .

This is needed to help weaken the role players mentally and break that great team defense they have

[BusBoyIsBack]

You really arent paying attention

Your strategy that he wont get assists because no one will help ignores the fact that if no one helps he will be throwing down crushing dunks.

The Bulls offensive players are not nearly as explosive as the magic shooters

Why cant we stop him if we double him and get the ball out of his hands and make the likes of Keith Bogans make more shots

You have no concept of basketball strategy there are things called momentum .

The Magics confidence didnt feed off Dwight they fed off the threes . Derrick Roses supporting cast confidence feeds off of his play when he doesnt play well they struggle badly you dont want him doing whatever he wants

.

To beat the Bulls in a 7 game series we have to get ahead and to do that we need to disrupt what they do

Double Rose primarily from Bogans while attacking Deng,Rose, and Boozer offensively

If we take game one that puts them in a position they have never been in before . Rose will then force the issue more we saw this against the Pacers they simply didnt have enough offense to take advantage of it as the series went alone

The key is you dont just employ just one strategy you employ several and keep making adjustments the key is to get hem playing catchup.

If we win game one you employ some zone in game two you double team other players like Korver or Deng at various times .

You have to take that team out of its comfort zone and that comfort zone is Derrick Rose playing well ....everything they do offensively is based on that .

This is needed to help weaken the role players mentally and break that great team defense they have

You cannot double team Derrick Rose because he's too quick. He will blow right by them. It's stupid because it leaves guys wide open like Korver for 3 pointers, it gets more guys in foul trouble, and it leaves more guys out of position for defensive rebounding.

If we single cover rose

-Deng, Noah, and Boozer will be forced to create their own offense

-Horford and Josh Smith can stay out of foul trouble that they would get trying to help on Rose

-Horford and Josh Smith won't be out of position for rebounding on plays they help out and don't get called for fouls

If you think Derrick Rose will get easier dunks to the rim than Dwight Howard, then feel free to believe that. But in reality there is no way a GUARD is going to do better than 27 PPG shooting 63% from the field. Michael freaking Jordan couldn't do better than that.

We cannot get owned by one player in one on one coverage more than Dwight Howard owned us.

You talk about momentum. Momentum happens when you get teammates involved. If you make a team one dimensional offensively it even defensively makes a team suffer which is crucial on a team with as elite a defense as the Bulls

Edited May 1, 2011 by BusBoyIsBack

[BusBoyIsBack]

There was a time when Hawks fans least concern was dribble penetration because of the Josh Smith factor. What ever happened to that guy?

He doesn't go for blocks anymore. But in a series like this he shouldn't anyway. The Bulls are only decisively better than us at ONE POSITION. The more we double and triple team Rose the more it looks like they have us matched or beat at MORE positions because his teammates are getting high percentage shots as well.

IF Josh Smith plays Boozer straight up he can contain him. We have athletes to contain every player they have on the court outside of Rose. That's why it makes no sense to try to stop him because we can't do it even if we try. He's too quick. And it's a catch 22 because he either blows by a double team with ridiculous wiggle room on the ground or through the air as he makes a shot or draws a foul, or he finds a wide open perimeter or post player because of the help defense.

I know dribble penetration is the scariest thing in basketball but only because of the help defense. We just need to NOT give the help. For Teague, Just don't let Rose get behind you. Backpedal all the way. Give him a 8 to 10 feet cushion and just back pedal all the way to the rim and get in position for rebound if he misses.

I guarantee you he won't make 63% of his shots and some of the time he will be so insulted by the cushion you give him that he will take jump shots.

[Wretch]

There was a time when Hawks fans least concern was dribble penetration because of the Josh Smith factor. What ever happened to that guy?

This is a good plan and the "old" Josh would be absolutely critical to it. Let them shoot jumpers all day, but plan Josh and Al in the paint and make them work for anything they get in there. I keep saying it...Josh could be the X-factor in this series. The main thing though is R-E-B-O-U-N-D-I-N-G!!!! Especially defensive. We can't give a guy like Rose 2nd chances - he doesn't need a 1st chance!

I sincerely hope that these guys are prepared for this. I believe this is the closest to the ECF's we have gotten in years.

[BusBoyIsBack]

This is a good plan and the "old" Josh would be absolutely critical to it. Let them shoot jumpers all day, but plan Josh and Al in the paint and make them work for anything they get in there. I keep saying it...Josh could be the X-factor in this series. The main thing though is R-E-B-O-U-N-D-I-N-G!!!! Especially defensive. We can't give a guy like Rose 2nd chances - he doesn't need a 1st chance!

I sincerely hope that these guys are prepared for this. I believe this is the closest to the ECF's we have gotten in years.

Rebounding is the key which is why we should play big and more importantly why we should use the Rose Rules. Play him STRAIGHT UP

IT's actually EASIER to get offensive rebounds when we give help defense on him because guys are out of position on the boards. Then guys like Boozer and Noah get free tip ins when Horford and Smoove try to help out.

It would go against everything they learned defensively but again it would make us so much more effective at stopping them as a team if we don't give that help and get ourselves in foul trouble and out of position on the glass

Edited May 2, 2011 by BusBoyIsBack

[Crank]

You cannot double team Derrick Rose because he's too quick. He will blow right by them. It's stupid because it leaves guys wide open like Korver for 3 pointers, it gets more guys in foul trouble, and it leaves more guys out of position for defensive rebounding.

If we single cover rose

-Deng, Noah, and Boozer will be forced to create their own offense

-Horford and Josh Smith can stay out of foul trouble that they would get trying to help on Rose

-Horford and Josh Smith won't be out of position for rebounding on plays they help out and don't get called for fouls

If you think Derrick Rose will get easier dunks to the rim than Dwight Howard, then feel free to believe that. But in reality there is no way a GUARD is going to do better than 27 PPG shooting 63% from the field. Michael freaking Jordan couldn't do better than that.

We cannot get owned by one player in one on one coverage more than Dwight Howard owned us.

You talk about momentum. Momentum happens when you get teammates involved. If you make a team one dimensional offensively it even defensively makes a team suffer which is crucial on a team with as elite a defense as the Bulls

listen to yourself

We cant double him because hes too quick but one guy can stay in front of him ?

KORVER DOES NOT START FOR THE BULLS KEITH BOGANS STARTS

I want Bogans shooting as many jumpshots as possible heck we all should

It doesnt get anyone in foul trouble because no other Bulls draw fouls besides Deng and Boozer who is hurt .

You trap off of Bogans if they decide to put Korver in well doesnt that matchup now overwhelmingly slide to JJs favor ?

If we single cover Rose they will simply run there offensive sets and Rose will be in the lane all game getting layups

It sounds to me that you are saying that when Rose goes around his man and he will no one else should help just let him score .

Why didnt Orlando do the same thing for Joe then or Crawford ? Do you understand why teams double ? They double because they are not stupid enough to believe they are gonna score everytime down the floor.

OMG you dont understand what we were even trying to do with Dwight . Our defensive philosophy against Orlando was designed to stop the three point shooting that is what drove Orlandos game and got them fired up. We werent trying to shut down everyone else we simply felt that they could not beat us without the three ball and they couldnt .

Derrick Rose is the Bulls offense he doesnt create any ONE thing that everyone else relies on he creates EVERYTHING THEY RELY ON the key is that he doesnt do it all with isolation

We need this first game so you have to give them something they havent seen from us . Thats why you double ,trap etc late in the clock after hes made his initial pass and has cut through and gotten the ball back because now its ten seconds on the clock and if you get it out of his hands it forces Bogans ,Noah Boozer,Gibson to actually make a move when the clock is running down.

Its about knowing there personnel and how they use them . The biggest mistake you are making is dreaming that if Rose gets around his guy that he will simply pull up for a long jumper when the fact is he is going straight to the basket and if no one helps which is what you are saying he will he will make enough to give them a nice lead and you know how well we play when we are down big . Nevermind that we are playing the best defensive team in the league and one of the better rebounding teams as well.

[BusBoyIsBack]

listen to yourself

We cant double him because hes too quick but one guy can stay in front of him ?

KORVER DOES NOT START FOR THE BULLS KEITH BOGANS STARTS

I want Bogans shooting as many jumpshots as possible heck we all should

It doesnt get anyone in foul trouble because no other Bulls draw fouls besides Deng and Boozer who is hurt .

You trap off of Bogans if they decide to put Korver in well doesnt that matchup now overwhelmingly slide to JJs favor ?

If we single cover Rose they will simply run there offensive sets and Rose will be in the lane all game getting layups

It sounds to me that you are saying that when Rose goes around his man and he will no one else should help just let him score .

Why didnt Orlando do the same thing for Joe then or Crawford ? Do you understand why teams double ? They double because they are not stupid enough to believe they are gonna score everytime down the floor.

OMG you dont understand what we were even trying to do with Dwight . Our defensive philosophy against Orlando was designed to stop the three point shooting that is what drove Orlandos game and got them fired up. We werent trying to shut down everyone else we simply felt that they could not beat us without the three ball and they couldnt .

Derrick Rose is the Bulls offense he doesnt create any ONE thing that everyone else relies on he creates EVERYTHING THEY RELY ON the key is that he doesnt do it all with isolation

We need this first game so you have to give them something they havent seen from us . Thats why you double ,trap etc late in the clock after hes made his initial pass and has cut through and gotten the ball back because now its ten seconds on the clock and if you get it out of his hands it forces Bogans ,Noah Boozer,Gibson to actually make a move when the clock is running down.

Its about knowing there personnel and how they use them . The biggest mistake you are making is dreaming that if Rose gets around his guy that he will simply pull up for a long jumper when the fact is he is going straight to the basket and if no one helps which is what you are saying he will he will make enough to give them a nice lead and you know how well we play when we are down big . Nevermind that we are playing the best defensive team in the league and one of the better rebounding teams as well.

When I say double I mean play up on him with no breathing room. That's when he blows by people. When I say play Teague on him I mean give him a cushion where we dare him to shoot like most teams do young quick PGs who have to prove they can knock down jumpers to keep a defense honest like Rose, Westbrook, Conley Jr, Parker etc all do. They don't come in the league scoring 20+ PPG if they don't know how to shoot because defenses are good enough where they can sag off them and get in good defensive position with a big enough cushion.

And yes he may still score 27-30+ PPG, but guess what, it won't be any more efficient than Dwight Howard was from the field. Dwight Howard scored 63% from the field. Do you understand how impossible it would be for Rose to be that effective at scoring? No one is that good where they can shoot that well as a perimeter player for an entire series. Let alone better than that

[sasuke]

NO it won't. IF we let Rose get 30 to 40 points with basically no assists, we can maybe hold the Bulls team to 80 point range. If we let Rose get his AND double and triple team him it will be like when we tried to double and triple team Howard and Rose will get his AND his teammates will get theirs. That's how the Bulls would score 100+ points and we would get destroyed because we aren't going to score more than the 80 range on them

We can't stop him even if we double him, so let him get his. But force Noah, Boozer, and Deng to create their own offense.

If we can't afford anything it's allowing those guys to get high percentage and easy looks. Then we have no chance. I really hope Larry Drew is aware enough to see this

What are you talking about? The only open man will be Bogans or Brewer. Al will be on Noah, Smoove on Boozer & Marvin on Deng. Al & Josh would be clogging the paint, but not to distant from them cuz they aren't camping in 3 land, they will be looking for offensive rebounds. Al & Josh will get to them quick enough. Rose quickness = lots of charges if we clog the paint. the faster you go the harder to avoid them.No one is triple teaming here. If they use Korver as a 2 with Deng at the 3 then we go 1 on 1.