ATLANTA IS A TOP 10 TV MARKET. THE PRODUCT SHOULD BE BETTER..

[Hawkmoor]

10 minutes ago, Dejay said:

In a word, well, YES. How else can you explain the likes of Adam Keefe or Josh Childress becoming multi-millionaires? When the folks here (myself included) predicted players before the draft who'd pan out better than the ones the Hawks actually selected, that should tell you everything you need to know. The universal joke in the NBA Draft was that a team didn't want to just pick in the top-3. They wanted to pick right after the Hawks were done. They knew that they were getting a stud while the Hawks normally ended up with a bag of rocks like Charlie Brown on Halloween...

Man.  I mean, i took it for GRANTED they had a scouting department. I mean, this aint the Red Auerbach days where teams have to travel on horses and carriages  and write down notes using a quill pen and parchment paper... I mean...........these sports teams in Atlanta..........

Welp........that explain THIS.....

Edited February 15, 2016 by Hawkmoor

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

Man.  I mean, i took it for GRANTED they had a scouting department. I mean, this aint the Red Auerbach days where teams have to travel on horses and carriages  and write down notes using a quill pen and parchment paper... I mean...........these sports teams in Atlanta..........

Welp........that explain THIS.....

Why are you so late to this show?

[Dejay]

Let's just face some brutal facts here. Over 40 years of incompetence, infighting, and non-stop indignation in the front office and ownership box cannot be offset by one year of actually looking like a contender for the first time since the mid-'90s. Not without a world title banner hanging from the rafters, it cannot. And think about last season for a second. That had the backdrop of the Danny Ferry mess, Levinson's e-mails, the sale of the team, followed by NYPD going Barney Fife on Thabo. How they managed to win 19 in a row, 60 games, a division title, and earn a trip to the ECFs despite half of their team being worn out with injuries with that as a daily backdrop is one of those mysteries they'll catalog along with the Dead Sea Scrolls. 

When folks look at the Hawks, whether last year or today, they still think of the Osh Smith or Iso Joe days. They still think about Marvin Williams over Chris Paul, followed by Billy Knight calling himself the 'residential basketball expert' in town on local sports radio. They still think of Michael Gearon whining on the radio about the lack of attendance despite never advancing beyond the second round in our lifetimes. They still think of those hideous contract extensions Babs and Kasten gave out to Alan Henderson and Jon Koncak while the rest of the league was laughing at us.

Until Ressler and the gang pony up and bring in players and seriously contend for world titles in order to let the basketball world know that those dark ages are finally behind us, well...

Edited February 15, 2016 by Dejay

[Hawkmoor]

12 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Why are you so late to this show?

Everybody KNOWS they cant draft, but not having a scouting department??????? wow, lmao

[Guest]

Just now, Hawkmoor said:

Everybody KNOWS they cant draft, but not having a scouting department??????? wow, lmao

Well....that's why they can't draft. lol.

[Hawkmoor]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Well....that's why they can't draft. lol.

Man, i been getting flack  for clowning Hawks moves and non moves, and whats ugly is, OBVIOUSLY, im just scratching the SURFACE on the ugliness that is the Atlanta Hawks. I mean, these dudes didnt have a proper scouting department???????? lol

[Dejay]

Pull any of our posts up from seasons' past. We've been railing on them for years and years...

[TheNorthCydeRises]

 Here's the main problem with this discussion.  HOW do you get a superstar to the Hawks?

 

Cap Space?

Well, we've had plenty of instances in which we've had the cap space to sign a superstar player, and they just blew us off.  Some of those guys have even opted to go to worst teams ( looking at you Dwight Howard ).

Dwight Howard left his original team, in which he'd made the NBA Finals and EC Finals.   He hasn't been out of the 1st round since, despite being surrounded around very talented players.

Other talented superstars have either deemed Atlanta to not have good enough complimentary pieces for them to win  championship, or just didn't want to play here more than they wanted to play somewhere else.

 

Draft one?

That's much easier said than done.  If it were simply about blowing it up and drafting a superstar, these teams wouldn't be in futility.

- Sacramento: No playoff appearances or winning records since 2006, despite having multiple top 10 lottery picks. Demarcus Cousins may very well be a Hall of Fame talent ... or he may be the center version of Mitch Richmond ( a great player who couldn't win by himself ).

- Minnesota: No playoff appearances since their WC Finals run in 2004, the longest drought in the league. They have multiple top 10 lottery picks on the roster. They even had a "superstar" in Kevin Love.  The result?  NOTHING.

Detroit:  No playoff appearances since 2010.  The Detroit championship core players either aged or were traded off for other players. They have multiple draft picks and nice players, and have finally gotten back to .500 level basketball.

Philadelphia:  Currently doing the ultimate experiment in tanking for a top 3 pick.  After posting 3 of the worst NBA teams in recent memory, the organization may now go in a different direction, just to get back to putting a mediocre product on the floor.

Cleveland: This is a team that should be in their 6th year of futility.  But because their former Hall of Fame player wanted to come back "home", he instantly elevated them from worst to first.  Multiple high draft picks weren't helping their situation, until Lebron's arrival.

 

Trade for one?

Chris Paul trade should've been to the Lakers, which "theoretically" would've kept them in title contention.  Instead, he goes to the Clippers, and hasn't even gone to the WC Finals, despite being teamed with 2 other All-Stars.

Matter of fact, when you look at the trades that have put teams over the top, they all involve teaming All-Star caliber players with Hall of Fame caliber guys.  

The Clippers model SHOULD work, but hasn't.  Why?  Because they're going up against stronger defensive teams that have just as much, if not more "star power".  Ironically, they look like a better team WITHOUT their electric dunking superstar, than they did with him. But will that translate into playoff success?  We'll see.

 

Reality Check

The last 10 NBA Champions since the 2005 - 2006 season have been:

Miami (3) ... San Antonio (2) ... LA Lakers (2) ... Boston (1) ... Dallas (1) ... Golden State (1)

Now, let's look at NBA Finals appearances during that time period

San Antonio (4) ... Miami (4) ... LA Lakers (3) ... Dallas (2) ... Boston (2) ... Cleveland (2) ... Orlando (1) ... Oklahoma City (1) ... Golden State (1)

And the final thing to look at is number of NBA Finals appearances by guys considered to be superstars and leaders of their teams.

Lebron (6) ... Wade (5) ... Duncan (4) ... Kobe (3) ... Pierce/Garnett (2) ... Dirk (2)

If you combine Lebron/Wade 4 appearances together, plus add Lebron's 2 solo Finals appearances, 17 of the 20 possible team slots for the NBA Finals in the last 10 years, have involved those 7 players.  

Dwight Howard, Steph Curry, and Durant/Westbrook make up the other 3 spots.

So how do you guys propose the Hawks get a superstar AND win?  Draft one? Pay for one?  Trade for one?

If it were easy to win, more teams would do it.  You have to acquire the right players, at the right time, and hope the chemistry is also right.

You may also have to possibly take advantage of a talent deficiency in a great team, due to injury or lack of developed personnel, or just age.

I loved Dominique as a player. But despite his superstardom and popularity in ATL, we didn't win jack sh*t with Nique.  

Why?  Because teams like Boston, Detroit, and Chicago had more talent.

So should the Hawks have said, forget it ... we're going trade Nique and tank, and rebuild the whole thing?

Edited February 15, 2016 by TheNorthCydeRises

[Guest]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 Here's the main problem with this discussion.  HOW do you get a superstar to the Hawks?

 

Cap Space?

Well, we've had plenty of instances in which we've had the cap space to sign a superstar player, and they just blew us off.  Some of those guys have even opted to go to worst teams ( looking at you Dwight Howard ).

Dwight Howard left his original team, in which he'd made the NBA Finals and EC Finals.   He hasn't been out of the 1st round since, despite being surrounded around very talented players.

Other talented superstars have either deemed Atlanta to not have good enough complimentary pieces for them to win  championship, or just didn't want to play here more than they wanted to play somewhere else.

 

Draft one?

That's much easier said than done.  If it were simply about blowing it up and drafting a superstar, these teams wouldn't be in futility.

- Sacramento: No playoff appearances or winning records since 2006, despite having multiple top 10 lottery picks. Demarcus Cousins may very well be a Hall of Fame talent ... or he may be the center version of Mitch Richmond ( a great player who couldn't win by himself ).

- Minnesota: No playoff appearances since their WC Finals run in 2004, the longest drought in the league. They have multiple top 10 lottery picks on the roster. They even had a "superstar" in Kevin Love.  The result?  NOTHING.

Detroit:  No playoff appearances since 2010.  The Detroit championship core players either aged or were traded off for other players. They have multiple draft picks and nice players, and have finally gotten back to .500 level basketball.

Philadelphia:  Currently doing the ultimate experiment in tanking for a top 3 pick.  After posting 3 of the worst NBA teams in recent memory, the organization may now go in a different direction, just to get back to putting a mediocre product on the floor.

Cleveland: This is a team that should be in their 6th year of futility.  But because their former Hall of Fame player wanted to come back "home", he instantly elevated them from worst to first.  Multiple high draft picks weren't helping their situation, until Lebron's arrival.

 

Trade for one?

Chris Paul trade should've been to the Lakers, which "theoretically" would've kept them in title contention.  Instead, he goes to the Clippers, and hasn't even gone to the WC Finals, despite being teamed with 2 other All-Stars.

Matter of fact, when you look at the trades that have put teams over the top, they all involve teaming All-Star caliber players with Hall of Fame caliber guys.  

The Clippers model SHOULD work, but hasn't.  Why?  Because they're going up against stronger defensive teams that have just as much, if not more "star power".  Ironically, they look like a better team WITHOUT their electric dunking superstar, than they did with him. But will that translate into playoff success?  We'll see.

 

Reality Check

The last 10 NBA Champions since the 2005 - 2006 season have been:

Miami (3) ... San Antonio (2) ... LA Lakers (2) ... Boston (1) ... Dallas (1) ... Golden State (1)

Now, let's look at NBA Finals appearances during that time period

San Antonio (4) ... Miami (4) ... LA Lakers (3) ... Dallas (2) ... Boston (2) ... Cleveland (2) ... Orlando (1) ... Oklahoma City (1) ... Golden State (1)

And the final thing to look at is number of NBA Finals appearances by guys considered to be superstars and leaders of their teams.

Lebron (6) ... Wade (5) ... Duncan (4) ... Kobe (3) ... Pierce/Garnett (2) ... Dirk (2)

If you combine Lebron/Wade 4 appearances together, plus add Lebron's 2 solo Finals appearances, 17 of the 20 possible team slots for the NBA Finals in the last 10 years, have involved those 7 players.  

Dwight Howard, Steph Curry, and Durant/Westbrook make up the other 3 spots.

So how do you guys propose the Hawks get a superstar AND win?  Draft one? Pay for one?  Trade for one?

If it were easy to win, more teams would do it.  You have to acquire the right players, at the right time, and hope the chemistry is also right.

You may also have to possibly take advantage of a talent deficiency in a great team, due to injury or lack of developed personnel, or just age.

I loved Dominique as a player. But despite his superstardom and popularity in ATL, we didn't win jack sh*t with Nique.  

Why?  Because teams like Boston, Detroit, and Chicago had more talent.

So should the Hawks have said, forget it ... we're going trade Nique and tank, and rebuild the whole thing?

So it's really a crap shoot.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Hawkmoor said:

Man, i been getting flack  for clowning Hawks moves and non moves, and whats ugly is, OBVIOUSLY, im just scratching the SURFACE on the ugliness that is the Atlanta Hawks. I mean, these dudes didnt have a proper scouting department???????? lol

Lol, this explains a lot of your posts.  You're complaining about stuff most of us hashed out years ago.

[Hawkmoor]

6 hours ago, Dejay said:

Let's just face some brutal facts here. Over 40 years of incompetence, infighting, and non-stop indignation in the front office and ownership box cannot be offset by one year of actually looking like a contender for the first time since the mid-'90s. Not without a world title banner hanging from the rafters, it cannot. And think about last season for a second. That had the backdrop of the Danny Ferry mess, Levinson's e-mails, the sale of the team, followed by NYPD going Barney Fife on Thabo. How they managed to win 19 in a row, 60 games, a division title, and earn a trip to the ECFs despite half of their team being worn out with injuries with that as a daily backdrop is one of those mysteries they'll catalog along with the Dead Sea Scrolls. 

When folks look at the Hawks, whether last year or today, they still think of the Osh Smith or Iso Joe days. They still think about Marvin Williams over Chris Paul, followed by Billy Knight calling himself the 'residential basketball expert' in town on local sports radio. They still think of Michael Gearon whining on the radio about the lack of attendance despite never advancing beyond the second round in our lifetimes. They still think of those hideous contract extensions Babs and Kasten gave out to Alan Henderson and Jon Koncak while the rest of the league was laughing at us.

Until Ressler and the gang pony up and bring in players and seriously contend for world titles in order to let the basketball world know that those dark ages are finally behind us, well...

And THERE is your answer. I said waay back in the thread i made about how he and Grant Hill acquired this team for ONE purpose: a investment they gonna flip a few years down the road. Im STILL waiting on one of them to give a interview and say they want to bring a championship to Atlanta. Its a GAME. They aint fooling me. This is WHY Koonin is the VOICE of the franchise. Its a sale job. Koonin keeping everybody happy while the team improves its value, then they sell the team.  The Hawks have EXCELLENT season ticket prices, so, they are gonna sell those tickets, regardless of the product they put on the floor. If the Hawks DO win a championship, it would be because Bud was THAT good, not because of money poured into the team by the ownership.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Hawkmoor

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Hawkmoor said:

And THERE is your answer. I said waay back in the thread i made about how he and Grant Hill acquired this team for ONE purpose: a investment they gonna flip a few years down the road. Im STILL waiting on one of them to give a interview and say they want to bring a championship to Atlanta. Its a GAME. They aint fooling me. This is WHY Koonin is the VOICE of the franchise. Its a sale job. Koonin keeping everybody happy while the team improves its value, then they sell the team.  The Hawks have EXCELLENT season ticket prices, so, they are gonna sell those tickets, regardless of the product they put on the floor.

What answer? Have they had a chance to pony up for the RIGHT players and declined?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

So it's really a crap shoot.

It really is.

Look at all of the bad drafts we've had in recen years.  While it definitely helps to have a top 3 pick, that guaranttes nothing, unless he is special from Day 1.  And even then, you need enough guys who can actually ball, to be around him and compliment his skill set.

I've wavered over the years about how NBA teams should approach the draft ... for need ... or for talent.  I now think they should ALWAYS draft for talent, and address needs via free agency and trades.

Because unless you have a legit superstar on your team, you should be drafting the guy who has the most potential out of the rest of the field, to become a superstar ... even if that means drafting a position you're already solid at.

But some drafts are just weak as hell, so it doesn't matter where you pick, even #1.  That's why the "blow it up" theory, is flawed.  You almost have to time a "blow up", when you potentially have one or morw potential Hall of Fame players in the draft.

 

[Mdizzle5]

Whats interesting is that even with a scouting department now, its seems like they really don't want to participate in the actual draft itself.