Tanking / Building a Championship Discussion

[Mikey]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

You can't develop talent without focusing on winning habits, and you can't focus on winning habits when you are trying to lose games.  Lloyd Pierce was hired for one reason and one reason only.  He was hired to lose games, and they knew he wasn't good enough to win games.  Bud was forced out because they knew he could milk more wins out of the group they gave him than a bad coach would.  So, we hired Pierce.  We lost games.  We didn't develop players properly.  That's the result of tanking.  That's the only result you will ever get with tanking.  

Bud was not forced out because of this []. He was out because he did not want to give up roster control or rebuild. Lloyd was hired as a young and upcoming assistant to build with the team. Our best season ever came running his schemes btw. He was horrible at relationships not scheme.

They lost games because the roster was bad. That’s what happens when you use your cap space to get more picks and take overpaid shitty players. Again showing you lack the process behind all this. But I’m sure in your head if we stuck as the 10th worst team entire time a star would just fall into our laps since that’s your favorite building strategy  

[KB21]

Lloyd wasn't an up-and-coming assistant.  No other team would have hired him to be a head coach.  Notice that he hasn't gotten even an interview for a head coaching job since he ran the Hawks into the ground.  

Bud wasn't against rebuilding.  He was against tanking and coaching to lose games.  

[Mikey]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

Lloyd wasn't an up-and-coming assistant.  No other team would have hired him to be a head coach.  Notice that he hasn't gotten even an interview for a head coaching job since he ran the Hawks into the ground.  

Bud wasn't against rebuilding.  He was against tanking and coaching to lose games.  

You pick and choose which comments to respond to because those are only the ones you can spin. Bud has never been about rebuilding and he certainly hated the fact they hired a president of basketball ops… 

There is not a single benefit of being the 10th worst team vs being the 5th. Not one. Both teams can develop winning habits. But one gets the best chance at having luck at your side. You don’t seem to understand this because your team building philosophy is just built on luck. And luck plays a big part in franchise building so why not try to maximize it. Being in the middle is the worst place in sports 

[Mikey]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Lloyd wasn't an up-and-coming assistant.  No other team would have hired him to be a head coach.  Notice that he hasn't gotten even an interview for a head coaching job since he ran the Hawks into the ground.  

Bud wasn't against rebuilding.  He was against tanking and coaching to lose games.  

[] He hasn’t gotten a job because he was awful to the star player he had A job for… 

no team wants a head coach that is awful with relationships. It doesn’t take a genius to know that. He was swooped up immediately for an assistant position tho but I guess that means nothing to you. 

[Mikey]

KB wants to be the bulls right now. Ask those fans how they are enjoying these season. Those winning habits you seem to be preaching really coming into play as they stay a 38 win team forever right? No chance at top players but I’m sure one will fall right into their lap at 11 right? 

[Mikey]

https://nesn.com/2021/06/recalling-how-celtics-brad-stevens-felt-about-becky-hammon-lloyd-pierce/amp/

Not respected yet here is executive of the year Brad stevens raving about him. But KB knows all

[KB21]

23 minutes ago, Mikey said:

You pick and choose which comments to respond to because those are only the ones you can spin. Bud has never been about rebuilding and he certainly hated the fact they hired a president of basketball ops… 

There is not a single benefit of being the 10th worst team vs being the 5th. Not one. Both teams can develop winning habits. But one gets the best chance at having luck at your side. You don’t seem to understand this because your team building philosophy is just built on luck. And luck plays a big part in franchise building so why not try to maximize it. Being in the middle is the worst place in sports 

No.  I understand it perfectly.

You cannot develop winning habits when your goal is to lose games.  Period.  End of discussion.  There is clearly a difference in doing things to lose games with intent and doing things to win games and coming up short.  One way, you develop bad habits that are hard to be broken.  The other way, you develop good habits that can be built upon.  

[JayBirdHawk]

6 hours ago, Afro said:

So you're actively making 25 and 26 worse. That is my entire point lol. I don't agree with trading with the Spurs just for us to try to make half of our return worse. 

 

It's like we never learn..... Tiago Splitter, Speedy Claxton, DJ.....we always seem to get the short end of the stick. Moral of the story....stop trading with SAS.

You guys can continue your tanking discussion!

[JayBirdHawk]

5 hours ago, Afro said:

To me this is arguing to trade Trae for worse picks than we traded to get DJM(even though theyre the same lol).

This is why the picks back Narrative should just die.

[Mikey]

34 minutes ago, KB21 said:

No.  I understand it perfectly.

You cannot develop winning habits when your goal is to lose games.  Period.  End of discussion.  There is clearly a difference in doing things to lose games with intent and doing things to win games and coming up short.  One way, you develop bad habits that are hard to be broken.  The other way, you develop good habits that can be built upon.  

Bad teams lose games. There is no way to put it. You can do everything right and still lose. The pistons did not try to tank this season and still lost 29 straight. It’s about talent. You are more likely to get that picking higher than hoping it falls into your lap. End of story. 

[JayBirdHawk]

4 hours ago, KB21 said:

IMO, the best thing for the Hawks is to convince Trae that while he may not compete for a championship this year with a core of him along with JJ, Sarr, OO, and Kobe, that's the best way for him to compete for a championship before his contract is up in Atlanta.  

You have to sell him more on the plan to build out the rest of the roster.

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Bad teams lose games. There is no way to put it. You can do everything right and still lose. The pistons did not try to tank this season and still lost 29 straight. It’s about talent. You are more likely to get that picking higher than hoping it falls into your lap. End of story. 

For me, tanking includes deliberately building a roster to lose games and then having the coach and players do their best to win each game.  So I firmly include Detroit as a tanking team this year.  I don't think they were trying to make the playoffs and maximize their record when the roster was put together.  So I don't even need to reach the point of evaluating the players and coaches to conclude they were tanking for more lottery picks just like the Spurs.