Am I the only 1 who see's improvment w/ this team?

[bballfan]

The defense was a little better tonight. They worked their butts off till the end and Diaw took some shots:)

We shot almsot 50 %.

I realize free throw shooting is a problem but as long as we improve and the coach keeps making them practice it will get better.

[Jackets333]

Yeah if you consider getting blown out by Orlando and Charlotte improvement.

[bballfan]

Obviously you don't care that this team if filled with young talent that has never played at this level for more then a short time.

Even Al Harrington hasn't played that many minutes over his tenure in the NBA and neither has Peja.

Don't you understand that this team is young and learning?

I guess not.

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Yeah if you consider getting blown out by Orlando and Charlotte improvement.

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[Jackets333]

The young guys are getting much needed playing time and experience, yes, however the TEAM as a whole has not improved that much as evident by the few games before tonight. Obviously getting blown out by Charlotte was the low point of the season.

[bballfan]

We have different idea's of improvment.

Tonight they showed me they can play defense and stop some shots when needed or at least get a much needed rebound .

At least for part of time.

[Employee8]

Okay....ENOUGH, JACKETS!!

We lost to the bobcats...we lost to the bobcats....HOW LONG ARE YOU GOING TO WHINE ABOUT THAT???? GOOD GOD, MAN!

SHUT UP, PLEASE!!

WE ARE REBUILDING...WE SHOULD'VE WON TONIGHT BUT WE DIDN'T.

WE'LL TRY AGAIN NEXT GAME.....

GO HAWKS!!

[Jackets333]

Cause its the damn BOBCATS for God sakes. They are an EXPANSION team. We should not get blown out by them, period. I'm using it as a point to my post. Why are you getting so upset?

[falc82]

Yeah, they looked improved tonight..but then again they looked just like they did get against the Rockets a few weeks ago, and we all saw what they've done since then. 0 wins. I do like what I'm seeing from Smith though, and Willis played a good game for us tonight.

But i've been on this for awhile and thought it was clearly a problem today: Free throw shooting. We lost because of it, simple as that.

The improvement i did see was after the 1st we stopped fouling them every time they got down low. We played better defense, and started developing as a team, however, I want to see this continue for at least 2-3 games before i mark it as improvement.

[bballfan]

It probably has something to do with the fact that your 13 overall posts at this board so far have been geared towords bashing this team to death especially Walker.

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Cause its the damn BOBCATS for God sakes. They are an EXPANSION team. We should not get blown out by them, period. I'm using it as a point to my post. Why are you getting so upset?

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[Jackets333]

I've talked about Walker maybe 3 times on here and it's because he's one of the worst free throw shooters in the league and should be fined every game until his free throw % is above 75%. Maybe that would give him some incentive to get a little better at it, because lets face it, no professional basketball player should be this bad from the line.

And back to the original point of this topic, you're crazy if you think this team has improved. This current stretch of games we are on was supposed to be where we got a few wins, and we haven't.

Delk has played better, Childress has regressed. Harrington has been average. Barry is average. Boris has done nothin. Josh Smith hasn't gotten enough minutes, but seems to give a spark every time he's in. Granted, Ivey and Drobs are hurt but you can't honestly think they would've helped us win those games. Delk has filled in nicely.

No wins until defense and free throw shooting is improved.

[Nicholasp27]

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Granted, Ivey and Drobs are hurt but you can't honestly think they would've helped us win those games.

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no, u can't think that!

they are just our best pg and best center...but who needs them? they wouldn't help us win these close games. Not at all!

Ivey wouldn't have let Marbs get 21 points in the first half...nor would he have let Marbs just waltz in for the layup/foul with 3 seconds left in the game to tie it up...

drobs wouldn't have let nazr get 1234234 rebounds and more points than his average...

[Nicholasp27]

and this team has improved...yes, they had a rough stretch and some lapses in the past week...but look at the stretch from spurs to rockets to pacers to jazz...they are improving over preseason/first games...they had a bad week last week, but the general trend is still getting better than they were to start the season...ivey/drob being out is making the others step up and start improving together as well...then once we add back in our best point and best center, we should hopefully improve even more...

remember, the pistons were 17-24 before they went on to get 50 wins when they first bought into the defense...

we may not do that...but we will improve...

[Jackets333]

It's funny that you honestly think IVey is better than Delk. It's even more funny you think Drobs would help us win those games. I mean seriously, we're talkin about Royal Ivey and Peja Drobnjak here. Are you serious?

[Nicholasp27]

i think of delk as a 2 more than a 1

and drobs is better offensively and ESPECIALLY defensively than Collier

he may not be great, but he's better than Collier, and would have helped a little bit inside...

[Nicholasp27]

when ivey is on the floor, we outscore our opponents by 8.2 pts...when he's off, we get outscored by 17.6 pts...that's a 25.8pt differential...

delk has a 2pt differential, from -10 to -12 on/off court

drob is +8

chill is +7.1

smoove is +9.2

we outscore our opps by 11pts when the following lineup is on the floor:

ivey/chill/walker/harrinton/drob

(in fact, EVERY game that 5some has been on the court, they have outscored their opps)

we outscore them by 7pts when its

ivey/barry/walker/harrington/drob

there is only one positive lineup besides those with ivey (and none negative with him in) and that's

delk/chill/walker/harrington/drob with +2

these confirm why we all like the lineup of ivey/chill/walker/al/drob the best...we've watched them outscore their opps by 11pts

our normal starting 5 of ka/diaw/walker/al/collier is -28 (and they have NEVER outscored their opps while on the floor), and ka/chill/walker/al/collier is -18

[Nicholasp27]

also, when IVEY is on the floor, our opponents' % of shots taken from close range drops almost 20% down to between 28 and 31%!! that's cause their pg can't penetrate as well with ivey in the game!

we also hold our opps to .375 and .360 fg% when IVEY is in the game...while they shoot .600 with our 2 main starting lineups that include KA...with Delk in the game, they still shoot almost .600...

IVEY is our only PG capable of stopping the opps! He should be our starter and play 25-30mpg when he returns!

because ivey hasn't played much, their PG position outscores ours by 6.4pts/game!

their center also outscores ours by 9.8pts/game, which is why we need a center...pf is -.1/game and sf is -1/game, so those are close enough...but we are lacking at pg (when ivey isn't in) and center

[Nicholasp27]

so is it still funny that i find ivey to be our best pg?

u can argue it with me, but the stats that back me up should make it no longer "funny"...

[phoostal]

I got Jackets back to a degree on this subject. This team stinks. Bottom line. There isn't much improvement at all.

I love how you think Ivey is an all star and is going to shut down Marbury. Are you on crack? Gimme a break. Drobs has played better than expected, but once again you are on something if you think he is the answer.

Next, you guys talk about improvement with this guy and that guy. However, there is no improvement with this team. That's the bottom line. I don't care how much a guy improves if it isn't helping the team win.

It also seems that win one guy improves another goes back in the S@!$er. Case in point Diaw and Childress. These guys switch every couple of weeks.

For all you guys that talk about how great it is that these young guys are getting experienced. One example for you Chicago Bulls. Those guys have been getting experienced for the last three years and what have they accomplished. Nothing.

This team is horrible at the line and their defense sucks. The funny thing is that these should be the first two things a team learns to play. Make free throws and play defense. For some reason the Hawks can't grasp this.

I know the season is young. Please don't throw the Pistions were 17 and 24 and look what happen in our faces. This team is no where in that league. Let's not pretend they are.

We need a center and we need a point guard. Ivey is good, but can you really say he is better than Delk. If you are honest, the answer will be no.

This team is frustrating to watch it is the same old same old each night.

Maybe its time to look at most people's god "Billy Knight". Just maybe he didn't bring the right mix of players together. Maybe he drafted the wrong guys. Maybe he didn't make all the right trades. As Hotlanta said earlier this year. Why is he genius, anyone can dump players for cap space?

We will see how this season turns out. I still support my team from thick through thin. I just think it is time for you guys to open up your eyes and realize what is going on.

As giddy as you get with a J. Smith dunk and block (even I do). There he is getting beat like a drum on the defesenive end. A. Walker as good as he was last night, he still can't make free throws and turns the ball over way to much. Let only in overtime he had the offense becoming stagnant by holding the ball until 5 seconds on the shot clock. Harrington is not consistent for an entire game (except Indiana). Diaw had his first big game last night. 14 games into the season. Hopefully that will jump start him. K. Anderson needs to retire. We have no center and the stiffs we have aren't really that good. Drobs has been a pleasant surprise on offense, defense sucks though. It is kind of sad when people actually start to think Drobs is good. He didn't even start for his country's team. Anyways you guys get the picture with this team too many flaws.

Improvement slightly. Definently nothing to get all excited about as most on this site do. Just let the season play out and don't try to cram this nonsense about how wonderful this team is improving. Until they start getting some wins, making free throws, and playing defense. This team isn't making any great strides.

Hey it's just my opinion.

P

[phoostal]

What's funny is that you can make stats say whatever you want?

I haven't sat and searched every possible lineup that the Hawks have had this year. I'm not really a geek that likes to do that. What I do know is what I see every game on the court.

Yes, Ivey is good and I like him. I think it is very skeptical thinking on your part to put him up there as being the best PG we have. I will agree he needs to be on the floor more than Anderson. However, I would like to go with Delk. He can score more, play decent defense, and seems to get the team flowing better. You also have to remember this is first real action in two years. Give him time to play.

Anyways about the stats. Football for example, name a qb you want for you team. The last name that is usually mentioned is T. Brady. His stats aren't that great. Guess what though, the guy wins. That's the bottom line. If you have a proven winner on your team that produces wins who gives damn about stats.

It's all about W's and L's. Sometimes we get to caught up in stats.

Right now I think Ivey would help, however I think Delk is doing just fine replacing him. If not better given the time. We should have a decent combo with Delk and Ivey manning the point. Still this team stinks and needs to get better. That's the remaining fact.

P

[Nicholasp27]

a) i never said Ivey is an all star, nor that he'd shut down marbury...i merely stated why i believe that he'd do a better job than ka/diaw/delk at pg...and since the game went into ot, ANY improvement there coulda won the game for us...

b) drob isn't the answer...i'm one of the biggest proponents of trading/signing swift/dalembert/whoever can block/rebound...drob is our backup center when we get the other and collier is gone...

c) the team lapsed last week, but it was improving...and this is 14 guys all new to each other...it takes time to jell..

d) defense needs an interior presence...ivey/diaw/chill/smoove are all above-average defenders...we need a defensive center and then let those guys jell and we can have some team defense...ft is horrid right now...

e) i say every time that we will NOT do what the pistons did...my point is that it is early and the team can still become good defensively...ie the season isn't over yet...

f) ivey is honestly better than delk defensively...and what good are delk's 20ppg if his opp gets 30? and ivey is young and will improve...i still think we need to draft paul/felton/jack/etc next summer and ivey will prolly be our long-term backup pg, but he may yet be our longterm starter...he's got the defense and the composure to run the team...

g) the team is frustrating, but it isn't same-old every night...the issues change, which is a good sign...sometimes we are way up the first 3 quarters to blow it later...others are close all game, still others we trail all game, but outscore them in the 4th...in other words, we aren't CONSISTENT...that comes with time...i'd rather be losing from inconsistency than consistently losing for the same reasons (a la the old team)

h) it's too early to tell how all this will pan out...what we do know is that knight dismantled a team that was going nowhere and got back real talent (ivey/smoove/chill/danta/al/walker)...where he goes from here, we don't know and is yet to be judged...but we now have POTENTIAL, FLEXIBILITY and those are two things we did NOT have before Knight...

i) smoove is 18 and just getting used to the NBA...we aren't expecting ANYTHING for 2-3 years, but he's already doing some good things in his limited mins, especially when Walker is not in the game...