Guest Walter Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 The idea that Belkin received more in a buyout the francise's worth is ludicrous. $60 million would equate to his 35%. I could see a MAX of an extra $5 million to make him go away. W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted August 21, 2005 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Forbes values the Hawks at 232 million. Forbes values the Thrasher at more than 160 million dollars.. (You did remember that the Thrashers/Philips Arena were in the mix). Philips Arena made a profit of 95 million this past year WITH most of the dates being lost to the Hockey strike... SO... When you add all that together, what do you think about the 30% now?? Please don't tell me that you think he only got 100 million from the deal? That's Ludicris... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lascar78 Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 yes if you add annual profit to worth, your worth will be alot higher. Why not add the profit the hawks make too, you can get even bigger numbers. And you know what, let's even add the debt of the phil as added worth. Fuzzy math is awesome! The fact that you think you know the worth of the 2 franchises + the phil (and its debt) so much better than the big businessmen who valuated it all less than 2 years ago (and that they are off by several 100s of %) is well beyond laughable I also liked how you used pre-lockout valuations of the hockey franchises. I can't wait til a figure comes out so we can laugh our @sses off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inside_Man Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Quote: Philips Arena made a profit of 95 million this past year WITH most of the dates being lost to the Hockey strike... Source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Walter Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 I based my stats on remembering an article form months ago so sorry about the missing the "3" in $232 million. I personally couldn't care much about this debate. However, you show your ass accusing me of something then wildly proclaiming pre-lockout NHL franchise value statistics count and claiming a $95 million profit on the Phillips. On the Phillips' profit, I at least cited Forbes', what's your source? W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted August 22, 2005 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 I can't put my hands on it now, but it was a praise report for Mullin. However, let me ask you this. How can you think the Arena is not making a profit? Pollstar ranks it the #1 concert arena.. Click Quote: hilips Arena earned the top venue rankings after hosting 13 of the nation's top touring acts. During January to September, Philips Arena celebrated a record-attendance performance by U2 with 20,919, as well as other sold-out shows such as matchbox twenty, Eric Clapton, and the venue's record one-night gross with $1,990,010 for Elton John & Billy Joel. The venue also hosted back-to-back sell-outs for Madonna, and was the site for international tours such as Sade and Janet Jackson. Philips Arena Earns 9 million dollars per year in Naming rights. Philips only loses 12.5 per year in debt to city and I don't know if that part of the deal was swallowed by Atlanta Spirit LLC 250? Quote: When Time Warner sold the two teams and the Philips Arena operating rights last year, it valued the deal at $250 million, which also covered liabilities being assumed, including $142 million in Arena debt payments. click Just the worth of the franchises at the time of purchase.... Quote: AOL Time Warner executives told a press conference Tuesday that the deal had an "economic value" of $250 million. The company said it would retain a 15 percent ownership in those properties, as well as the rights to future Hawks and Thrashers programming on its networks. The company took a $178 million charge in its second quarter to write down the value of the two franchises. Forbes magazine had put the value of the two teams at $333 million combined, with $199 million for the Hawks and $134 million for the Thrashers. Assuming the $250 million transaction price reflects only the 85 percent stake in the team that was sold, the deal would value the teams at just under $300 million. By the way those prices are higher now.. Click This is the bottom line.. Quote: Belkin would have the option to sell at a price based on fair market value, as determined by an independent appraisal. Belkin will not sell at the price that he bought in for. You guys are stupid if you think that's the case and he would be stupid. All the documentation I have shown you without the revenue from the Arena suggests that it's upward of 120 million ALREADY.. Hawks = 232. Thrashers = 160. Close to 400 million. 30% = close to 120... So how you guys think he would sell his stake in the Hawks, Thrashers, and Arena and get less than 100... Is beyond me. Belkin will make a profit. A big profit because the simple fact is... He didn't have to sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seano Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Meh, who really even cares about Steve Belkin at this point? I honestly don't care whether he gets another team, whether he doesn't, or whether he steps out his door tomorrow morning, gets abducted by space aliens and whisked off to their home planet in the Arcturus 5 system- never to be seen again. I just don't care. All I know is that he's not our problem any longer, and he can go straight to hell as far as I'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Walter Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 That's the difference in the amount Belkin makes from the start of this thread to now according to you. BTW, I wasn't considering the Thrasher aspect. While I suspect it, I don't even if he is being bought out regarding them. I do know that Hockey franchise numbers aren't as good the year after a lockout. The $160 million value of the Thrashers is inflated. W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catapult Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 I strongly doubt that arena profit figure too. Nobody would sell a business converting a yearly profit of 95M for 250M, nobody. Let alone giving NBA and NHL franchises as freebies on top of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted August 22, 2005 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 120 million is just with the 2 teams. You haven't added in the Arena NOR have you considered his take based on years... Let's take a lowball look again. What if the Arena's take were ONLY 60 million per year in profit... If he had decided to stay on til 2009 when his governor ship is up... He's giving up 90 million dollars in profit. That added to the 120 million comes up to 210. What I said is that since the profit is somewhere closer to 100 million. If he had held out til 2009, he would have to be asking for somewhere between 210-300 million dollars. Moreover, I concluded that he must have asked for a lot because originally the other owners wouldn't go for what he was asking. Now if he had only been asking for 5 million more than what he put in... (80 million) why would the other owners be at arms about paying him? Hell if he had only asked for 100 million which is 25 million more than he put in, why would that cause a problem. You are talking about guys who have decided to pay JJ 70 million dollars. You think that they would object to paying 25 million extra to Belkin so that they could have 30% more of the team? This is foolish talk to me. Especially knowing how much both the Hawks and the Thrashers will prosper. Moreover, Hawks ticket prices went up and they are expecting MORE people to buy tickets... So even at the gate, they are looking to recoup... So again... Your argument is weak and has no real basis other than you want to disagree. Hell Walter, your first comment in this was one that referred to the value of the Hawks ALONE. You didn't even consider the value of the Thrashers estimated at 160 million nor the value of the Arena Which is the #1 concert Arena (Pollstar) and the #4 arena nationwide when it comes to yearly revenue (Billboard) ... You just assume that the Arena is worth NOTHING? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Walter Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 for the next family's profits when they decide to sell it in the future? Nonsense. Once Belkin sells he no longer is on the hook for debt or liability or deserving of potential partial profits. I would love to sell my house for $120,000 and earn say another $20,000 when the next owners make a profit on it say 5 years from now, but that ain't how it works! W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted August 22, 2005 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 It's not a house. It's a business. If you decided to sell your business, you would consider how much the business stood to make in the future before selling wouldn't you?? It's called Good valuation. ONLY the bank look at "Price" when considering big business sells and purchases..... When you talk about the valuations of the franchises plus the arena, there's no way Belkin or an independent evaluator will look at that arena and say it's only worth the cost of the bricks and the mortar? That's stupid. The Arena is a Money Making entity... The evaluator will have to determine how long Belk could have remained in that position if he wasn't "forced Out" and how much he stood to earn... Even in the original deal. TBS who originally owner the Hawks/Thrashers/Philips.. They held on to 15% of the profits from Atlanta Spirit. This is because they sold it at a discount and they realize that the Arena if ran correctly would make lots of money... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Walter Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 That's why the franchise value has increased dramatically according to Forbes. That's why you remain wrong and I'm done discussing this. W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted August 22, 2005 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 2 things (really) controls the franchise value. 1. Owners kickbacks (I think it's called BBI) - Which is really based on TV contracts (like the 2.4 Billion dollar deal that ABC gave.. and the Contract that the owners signed with the players union was to a great advantage to the Owners... 2. Merchandising, Marketing, and retail. How much of a stir will your players make? For instnace, Companies will want to advertise with the Hawks because of who plays for us. Both of those things can be quantified and forecasted... That's the franchise side. The Arena is different. The Arena makes Money because of the franchises and because of the ability it has to market itself to venues that have NOTHING to do with the Franchises. Billy Joel didn't think.. OH, this is where the Hawks play before he came and made the Arena ~2 million dollars in 1 night? So when you talk about valuation.. You have the franchise & the Arena.. And they are seperate entities. Where the franchise will increase in worth over time (look at what Milwaukee's owner did recently... What he bought at a low price some time ago, he sold for a very high price recently).. But an arena is something that can make money outside of the franchises. It would be nice if the franchises could win.. that put more butts in the seats for the arena and gives the arena the ability to charge MORE for space in the building to the vendors.. BUT the Arena is a cash cow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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