ATLien_

I would also add the Baylor played mostly zone defense which tends to drive rebounding numbers down. I'm not sure how it impacts steals and blocks, but it's sometimes hard to compare.

Larry Drew is number one on my ish list. This moron single handedly set forth the events that kept the Danny Ferry core from fulfilling its true championship potential. Follow me. Firstly, the offseason we were going hire coach Bud Larry Drew was still under contract until after the Draft, but asked to be released early so he could pursue a new coaching job. I'm sure the Hawks expected him to get an assistant coaching opportunity. Thanks to the incompetence of the Bucks he gets their head coaching job. He proceeds to draft Giannis Antetokounmpo whom he knew was number one on the Hawks board one pick before us. We did Drew a solid and he screws us. This denied us of our Superstar slash Kawahi Leonard clone that completes our Spurs east core. We end up with Bebe and Schröder instead of Giannis and Schröder. I realize we drafted Dennis after Bebe, but many speculated at the time we did it just to humble Dennis since we owned back to back picks. Now I have to watch Giannis get developed by a mental midget that wants to put a guy with 7 foot plus wing span at PG instead of coach Bud. He'll never maximize his potential there and small forward is still an issue for the Hawks. Secondly, because we had a Giannis size hole at SF Danny Ferry saw fit to pursue Luol Deng. This free agent pursuit lead to the now infamous "a little African in him" comments that set the franchise back atleast one year, and caused a tons of negative publicity for the team. We have a better ownership group, but I would rather have Giannis. We went from one of the most experienced front offices to the least over night. Which is likely why we don't move Teague and maybe Al sooner get more for them. One thing we can all agree on is Ferry was not afraid to move big name players. Lastly, I want to punch Larry Drew's face everytime I see it. I know we can't be 100% certain everything would have went down like I described. However, if this was Mythbusters, then I feel confident my narrative would be deemed plausible.

I'm with you. I understand his decision better, but it's still a bit%&! move. Trust your front office and coach and their ability to handle Dwight.

Forgot to mention that he said the Hawks brass felt they needed to take a risk on Dwight. They feel if they can resurrect his career other big name free agents will take notice and start taking the Hawks seriously. Right now the Hawks can't even get to the table. I understand why they did this, and I've been saying all off season the Hawks need to take risk.

Zach Kline was just on 92.9 the game. He said Al didn't like the Howard signing and that's the number one reason he's gone. He said Al and Dwight don't see eye to eye on a lot of things, and Al didn't like what he brought to the locker room. Al felt if he was going to sign long term he wanted to be comfortable with the locker room. He also said Al's heart was in Atlanta if it was 100% up to him he would have been back, but he had alot of people in his ear. Tito, wife and new agent that talked him into Boston. Apparently Al is this guys only client and he wanted to make a splash. He convinced Al he can get another max in 3 years at 34, so Boston offered an opt out in year 3. He also talked about Tito's crowd comment, but said that had little impact. Said during playoff series Celtics fan booed everyone but Al, and they were telling him come to Boston when he walked off the court. Lastly, he said he loved Horford and will miss him, but he wouldn't have given him the 5 year max either.

Whoreford in the Hawks greatest hour of need you refused the call. Tommy Heinsohn said "(Al) Whoreford, as much as you think he’s a great player, he’s not a great player. Get a man on him and he has trouble scoring.”. YET YOU STILL REFUSE THE CALL! Well Alice house Schröder remembers. House Millsap remembers. House ATLien_ has been supporting the Hawks for over 20 years and we know no team other than the Hawks. Coach Bud may be a bastard, but he's our bastard. He's got coach Pop's blood running through his veins, so he's my king. Bud! Bud! King of the Hawks! Bud! Bud! King of the Hawks! For the game of throne fans. Apparently, we don't have a Lyanna Mormont amongst our players. It's a damn shame when a 10 year old girl has more guts than grown ass men. Welcome to 2016 folks. Can an administrator help with the images. I hit insert image from url. Not sure why it's not working.

Al Horford signs with the Celtics he's dead to me. Sign with the Hawks biggest rival! If he went to OKC, Spurs or GS fine I get it go get a ring. He signed with the team we beat in six how is that an upgrade? This only makes sense if KD is going there. It's a bit&%* move either way though.

Lol you've convinced me. Yours is the proper spelling. I'm going to take it like a man and not faux blame auto correct. I wish we could have went after Crabbe as you suggested. You convinced me of that as well. I'm really wondering what he will ultimately sign for. If it's around 10, then I think I'll regret the Baze deal. He's restricted though so Portland likely would have matched.

You said you wanted to be convinced, so I had to go all Doc Holiday on you :) I always enjoy debating with you Sturt.

Quick glance at basketball reference shows they are identically horrid sub 40% shooters outside of 3 feet from the basket. Passing is definitely hasn't been a strength of Howards, so you won't get an argument from me there. However, I'll also add that Dwight does draw a double on offense and Splitter is simply not capable of providing the Spacing Howard does. I guess I'm trying to say Splitter needs to be a better passer because of this. Splitter's shooting by distance http://m.bkref.com/m?p=XXplayersXXsXXsplitti01.html&t=5 Howard's shooting by distance http://m.bkref.com/m?p=XXplayersXXhXXhowardw01.html&t=5

Are we not overrating Millsap's offensive impact? Is not a zero sum game if he leaves others will get more shots. He averaged 17 ppg and Al averaged 15ppg. Sap attempted roughly 1 more shot a game than Horford. Horford actually made more fg's per game on 1 less shot per game. Millsap's scoring average is higher because he attempted 5 free throws a game to Al's 1.6. Al can easily make up for that scoring by taking more shots. Howard will definitely replace Saps free throw attempts but won't convert at a 80% clip like Sap and Horford. The Hawks should definitely look to add more people that get to the line, and create off the dribble. I would be more worried about that than his raw scoring. Just so we are all on the same page my preference is to keep all three. I'm not advocating trading Sap, but we should if we don't plan to resign him.

Look no further than Tiago Splitter. He started for the Spurs for years at center. Bud saw Splitter as a fit and traded for him last year. Dwight is better than Splitter at everything except probably passing and maybe positional defense. Neither guy can shoot and they spend time around the basket. We also drafted Walter Tavares. I think it's a big misnomer that Bud only values stretch bigs in his system. I believe Bud wants versatility. He wants to be able to make teams adjust to us and throw out different lineups.

Karl Anthony Towns is their power forward and superstar of the future. I can't see them trading for Sap even though I love alot of their young talent.

Pelican's is my guess. I proposed a trade for Splitter for Tyreke Evans earlier in the off season. Now we would just want a pick back. The Pelicans need a center so Anthony Davis can play PF full time. Between Asik and Splitter they should have one healthy when the other is hurt.

NBA TV is saying Al can still be resigned. Nothing is official until the grace period is lifted. They may have to move Splitter's contract and renounce Scott.

Bingo! Korver benefits the most from this signing because we actually have a player that has to be doubled now. Horford will get open looks too.

They can actually do a sign and trade now, but it's pretty silly to give up assets for a player you have enough cap space to sign. Unless Al is pressuring then to do it so he doesn't leave Atlanta high and dry. That would be really unusual though.

Why would the Celtics do this when they can sign Al outright?

This is a really smart move for Howard. His reputation is mud and he was playing his way out of the HOF. This coaching staff resurrects careers. If he brings a championship to the city of Atlanta all will be forgiven just like LBJ and Cleveland. He will be a lock for the hall. Lastly, this staff does not abuse their players. He will get plenty of rest and not be overused. I really love the versatility of lineups we can play now. We can be big small and extra medium if needed. Next move is to package splitter and Scott for a SG. Or trade them for capspace and sign Courtney Lee or make Portland match for Crabbe.

I think removing the maximum salary would accomplish this. The problem right now is star players can't really make what they are worth, so they are finding other things they value. Going to the largest markets to maximize endorsements, playing with friends, creating super teams to ring chase. If Lebron could be paid 50 million a season there's no superteam. It's harder to turn down an extra 20 million a year just for friends or rings. This reduces the problem of role players getting over paid, because the stars will be more evenly distributed across more teams and making more money. Right now small market teams can't compete on price for star players because every team can only offer stars the same amount. For example OKC would have to choose between KD and Westbrook because a team could come in and offer Westbrook 45 million a year. You can't have your entire salary cap tied up in two players. If they choose to keep both players with no max salary then they would be surrounded by minimum contract guys or paying a crap load of luxury tax to resign their own players over the cap.

100% agree @JTB. This is why I would like to see the Hawks take a risk on a player that has been a victim of poor player development, but actually has legitimate star talent. If we can do this with Baze & Carol what could they do with a Rudy Gay ,Tyreke Evans or a Jeff Green? Speaking of Tyreke what would it take to get him from New Orleans? Splitter's salary works for a trade, but would they want more? We need a backup point guard and Evans could fill that role for us and be sort of a 6th man. He can backup 1, 2 & 3 adding to our versatility. New Orleans does the trade because they need a center to allow Anthony Davis to play PF full time. Between Splitter and Asik they'll have one healthy center while the other is injured.

I agree Atlanta is always radio silent and talking heads and "journalist" never know what we are doing. It started under Ferry and continues under Bud. If we hear a rumor it's either fabricated or leaked by the Hawks purposely, in both instances it's probably not true. The Hawks front office should work for the NSA, and I believe that's a good thing. It does suck for us fans though.

Ugh this is bringing Dejavu; It didn't work out to well last time . Maybe we've learned.

Good healthy debate. I still think Thad's deal is good when there are rumors that Festus Ezeli will get 17m. Unfortunately that's the new NBA. Here's a little something to cheer us both up.

Much appreciated. I've been trying to search all day for a good roster, but 2k search is awful. It's like they don't want you to find off season rosters.