RedDawg#8

He balled out last Summer, didn't make much difference to Nate. Why waste his legs again (I know he is injured, but even if he wasn't)

Agree Elite teams have found ways to get their young guys on the court. Doesn't mean they have a huge role on day 1. But they get more run than garbage minutes when the bench gets cleared. Nobody looks good next to other scrubs. It's too much chaos and disorganization. But you put AJ in for 6 minutes a half with some of the main rotation vets and he cannot have that big of a impact of whether we win or lose. I think more than anything, you have to let guys prove themselves on the court. You cannot determine if they are ready based just on the practice scrimmages that no starter participates in during the season. And don't get me started on the G-League. JJ balled out in the G-League last season, tell me if that makes any difference in how comfortable we feel about him being the primary backup at PF? It might as well count for nothing at this point.

It was reported that one of them would be on the court at all times. I don't like this because it pulls them apart for longer stretches. But that seems to be the scenario that we want to roll with. An elite playmaking PG on the court for 48 mins.

I seriously doubt we retain him after this season, regardless of how well he plays.

So is no one sad about Mays possibly not returning? Kid is a solid basketball player. I am assuming Coop returns, then possible Martin signs on a Two-way deal. Again, all we are missing on the depth chart is a 3rd center. And if we are greedy, then another scoring threat off the bench.

J Holiday’s contract is expiring. I doubt we have long term plans, or any plans beyond this season for him. He is a stop gap like Snell, TLC, and **sigh** Wright, just to fill out the roster. I wouldn’t worry about his age or ability too much. That won’t be our problem after this season. The issue is Nate, he has to realize the value in getting Griffin minutes so that he’s ready to crack the rotation in 23-24.

You can’t steal someone that’s under contract for multiple years. Heck, I don’t even think you can even contact a player that’s under contract. The only thing that can happen is for JC to publicly demand a trade to force the Hawks hands. And even in that scenario the Hawks hold the power just like the Nets technically do with KD. But JC isn’t that type if player, and whether he is happy or not, he will either say nothing or say how much he loves the organization and wants to be here. The Hawks want to improve. If they were willing to lose JC for nothing we would have traded him already for those crap deals. We want to add another big piece and that’s the only reason JC is available. As long as they were clear about that with him and his agent I don’t think there will be any animosity.

Honestly, if we can get our defense to be average, we are back to being contenders. If we can get it to be top 10, we are a Finals team.

We could totally use a veteran as our 3rd center. All other positions have a ton of overlap already. We got nothing if CC or OO go down.

Because, unlike some of the posters on here, the Hawks organization only wants to trade him in a deal for a clear upgrade to the roster. That does not imply that he holds no trade value. We are trying to flip him in deals for Star level players. We are not just trying to give him away and nobody will take him. Big difference. All teams want to win trades. It is no secret that the best player in a trade is usually the team that wins the deal. So we are coming in at a disadvantage as a team with no stars to trade. Unfortunately, some people fell in love with the idea of moving JC for a draft pick are mad that Schlenk is too smart to do that. You guys act like we are having a yard sale and nobody is stopping at his table. No. We made Cam available and took what we could get for him. We are using JC to try and to date up. We are not being rejected by ugly girls. Ugly girls are still shooting their shot at us for him and WE are saying no. Even cute girls are looking our way but we are not interested in a lateral move. We want an upgrade and so does the other side. That is not a knock on JC’s value because we refuse to sell low on him like we did Cam and Kev.

If our roster is basically set, then we are looking at hopefully Dre and OO taking a leap (which I assume was always the plan considering we made them off limits) If they both come back with the improvements that they said they would work on, (Better ball handling from Dre, outside shooting from OO) coupled with the Murray acquisition, I think we will be much improved. I wanted the size of D Wright to go along with Murray and Trae, but otherwise I am good with every move we made. JC and CC are not perfect, but they are elite in their roles especially at their price. Both guys embody leadership and winning characteristics that cannot be easily replaced. Dre no longer has any real competition at the 3. He should be planning for his role and minutes to increase heavily, similar to 2020. Plus, he should benefit from facing more compatible defensive assignments as opposed to generically guarding the best 1-3. He should now only have to face 2-3’s and maybe SOME 4’s depending on matchup. That being the KD’s and Lebron’s of the world. OO is now big man #3. He has an opportunity to seize a lot of playing time from JC and/or CC. His health out of the gate and ability to match up with elite bigs makes him a significant wild card for us. His growth could single handedly push us over the top. Bogi, like Dre, will benefit from less competition for playing time as well. Bogi now officially has THE green light for the second-unit. He needs to stay healthy, but the shots are there for him to take. Nate should have more sets arranged for him like he did in 21’ The Holidays, Harkless, and Johnson; just stay ready. Bring energy, hustle and IQ (except JJ). Don’t do too much. We have a squad ya’ll. That 3rd piece may very well still be out there waiting, but we have a lot of talent on this team with much clearer roles going in to next season.

I get what you are saying, but I still think every team needs a throw in the post and score or a. get to the foul line type player. There are always situations where the game slows down and you just need a tough basket Our two best players are both smallish guards. I think it’s almost necessary for us to have a go-to post threat with some size. Especially in the playoffs. It’s got to be Dre unless we add someone else. JC can post against mismatches but struggles against stronger defenders. I think Dre has just enough explosion to take advantage of a bigger player. Gallo was so good at making something out of nothing and helping us keep a lead, or make comebacks, all by getting to the line. Not every game will be a big lead.

I definitely doesn’t help. Even in the Bud era, you saw this well oiled machine look gradually less and less polished as his coaches got away. Having so much talent on your bench allows guys 1-15 to get quality individual attention at all times. Having experience around allows you to trust judgement and opinions other than your own. I remember when we hired Bud some were upset that we didn’t hire Snyder or Atkinson as the HC, and then they come on as our assistants and we were like, WTF just happened??? We literally hired all of the best available candidates to be on the same coaching staff. That makes a difference. Wild times.

We really could use some infusion of experience on the bench. I already thought this last year heading in to the season. Even moreso now. At least 2 experienced coaches would be nice considering the expectations we have for our group.

I would be down for TJ Warren. Gives us another guy like a Bogi who can get red hot on any given night and play like a borderline All-Star. I like that he can score in a few ways that we currently lack. He can space the floor but isn’t strictly a floor spacer. Reminds me of when we had Parker off the bench. He was a professional bucket getter even if he gave us nothing else. Plus, I don’t hate the fact that he and Jimmy are not the best of friends. Would love some of that feistiness on this team.

So is Collins 6’11 now too or what, you tell me?

https://crownhoops.com/2019/10/08/complete-list-of-nba-player-height-changes-and-updates/ All good, this happened after he was drafted. The year they updated everyone

I gave 2 links already you have to back track bud

The issue is he is officially only 6’9. But continue. I am an OO at Center guy so I don’t think height is a deal breaker for that argument. I just feel like it needs to be genuine. Simmons is 6’9

Neither. The scouting report is widely public on Simmons, the moment he gets the ball on the perimeter his defender sinks down below the FT line. In our case the defense would just cheat over to help on Trae. Or Simmons defender would play free safety and roam. Either way, ain't a single team in the league guarding Ben Simmons one-on-one outside of 15 feet. He is officially self check until he gets in the low post.

Ben Simmons is the same height with and without shoes as John Collins. But for whatever reason the NBA rounds JC’s height down and Simmons height up. Im not going against your center argument but I just want it to be clear, if Simmons is 6-11 then so is JC. In reality they are both 6’8.25 barefoot and 6’9 +change in shoes. Simmons draft combine https://www.nbadraft.net/2016-nba-draft-combine-measurements/ JC draft combine https://www.nbadraft.net/2017-nba-draft-combine-measurements/ Official NBA measurements after they updated everyones height https://crownhoops.com/2019/10/08/complete-list-of-nba-player-height-changes-and-updates/ Ben and JC are both officially listed as 6’9. I don’t know how his 6-11 height keeps being floated around. He was never that tall.

Y’all remember how mad at Trae everyone got those handful of games it looked like he was protesting his critics by standing around not moving without the ball and not being engaged? Y’all are going to turn on Simmons real quick, especially with him playing the 4 and Trae and Murray with the ball in the half court. Simmons is good for transition offense. Otherwise he will be in the dunkers spot with his hands on his hips.

People look at Simmons and say he can’t shoot. That’s not just it though. Simmons not only can’t shoot, but he wont shoot. That’s what is scary. And not like CC or OO who don’t shoot because they play to their strengths for the better of the team. Simmons won’t shoot even when it hurts the team. Simmons already lacked a jumper, ok fine. He sucks at the FT line, ok cool, so does Capela. The difference is, Capela will still put the ball up. Simmons has gotten so shook that he has started to fear contact that may send him to the FT line. Dude shot 33% from the line against us. He did not take a single shot in the 4th quarter of multiple games. That’s basically unplayable. Capela sucks at the line but at least will stay around 50% or more even under pressure and intentionally fouled. Simmons shrinks when his team needs him the most. That is not a winning player. Forget talent. Capela went out and publicly told the Knicks we were about to send them on vacation. OO has stood toe to toe with Giannis and got up in KAT’s grill when he started jawing at him. Bullied them both. JC has some of the most energizing plays that gets the entire team hyped. None of our guys will ever be confused as more talented than Ben, but they all are gamers who want to compete and don’t back down from challenges. Ben would suck that out of the locker room the moment he freezes up, we lose, and he starts pouting when asked about it after. He has a losers mentality, not a champions mindset.

Simmons is a lemon at this point. He needs way too much work to justify his price tag.

Nah, he did say Kev had more trade value, but that we wanted to keep him in a Hawks uniform because of his team friendly contract. There were no indications given that we WANTED to move him. Only that other teams wanted him. That subtle difference plays in to people’s disappointment when the return doesn’t seem to match what we thought his value was based on their reports. Similar to the Cam trade. When you tell us for months that we like certain players too much to ever give them away for nothing, then they get traded for expirings, I think the confusion is understandable. And I don’t mind the Kev deal, just pointing out my observations.