RedDawg#8

He needs to get on the court for us to really know more. But he is loaded with talent and potential. I do have concerns that he eventually will be disgruntled by his circumstances. It ranges from mild concern about his position (a la Horford) as his camp has put out a few times that Jalen has played out of position his entire career and implying that he can be a perimeter player with the ball in his hands and not just a big man or rim runner. I am curious if this ever becomes an issue. The bigger worry is generally just about his playing time and role (a la Cam) and how long will he stay patient while his classmates are playing, winning awards, and contributing to winning teams. I do believe that his camp sees him as a big time player prospect and wants him to have a key role on whatever team he is on. This season will be key for him to get on the court and make a name for himself. We will see how everything plays out. The kid has game and wants to prove it.

My bad, I came in mid conversation. All I saw was Tatum better than anyone on Hawks. I missed the part about Warriors and Wiggins defense. (I was a little buzzed fyi). I agree defense is about slowing ppl down, not “stopping” them. Wiggins helped to do that. I give Wiggins major credit for adapting to the Warriors culture on defense. I do not think he could come to Atlanta and perform at that same level defensively. Likewise I think if Hunter was on the Warriors, he would be universally lauded as Draymond’s heir-apparent. A fully bought in team can make stars out of their defenders. Results go to Wiggins. His team was bought in and he did his part. I believe Delon has better instincts than Wiggins, and Dre can be trusted on an island against the world’s best. None of it matters though because our team is still overall poor on defense. We have no defensive culture and it shows when cats like Solo, TLC, Kris Dunn, Delon, Dre, Dedmon, etc…. all look average when they play for us because their teammates constantly hang them out to dry. Wiggins would be no different here.

Fundamentally incorrect. If you are saying on both ends then maybe. But Trae is unguardable 1 on 1. Tatum was shut down with one good defender because he couldn’t impose his will and settled (and missed) tough shots. Trae needed the entire Heat defense keyed in on him to slow him down. Tatum looks the part, and when he is on, he looks like the next great thing. But he and Jalen both came up short time and time again when they needed to make something out of nothing. Trae thrives in that situation. Apples to apples he is just better. Tatum shrinks, Trae rises.

JC fits like a glove next to Trae. That’s why that doesn’t make sense. Why not move the pieces that don’t fit next to Trae?

Too much smoke not to believe that we really are trying to move JC. It screams of us being cheap. The best piece we have left to package together for a “name” player, and we are jumping at the bit to move him for a draft pick. That is a money saving move if I ever saw one, and just shows again we are not serious about competing for titles.

Dynasty's become great by being the best version of themselves. Every dynasty has it's own identity different than any other one, not an imitation. That works in music, but not sports. We need to establish a winning culture built around franchise pillars. Are we fast, athletic, offensive minded, defensive minded, tough, smart, etc... these are the things we must identify and commit to. Right now, we are a devastating pick and roll unit with great shooters and bigs who can finish. That's a part of our DNA. But what else? Can we establish a defensive identity to match our offensive one? Once a culture is in place, you only bring in pieces that either fit that culture, or adapt to fit that culture. KD signed with GS because he wanted to be a part their culture and be on a team that moves the ball. Butler was brought to Miami because he fit their culture. The Spurs and Raptors established cultures focused on player development and international scouting. They groomed their organizations around players who played the right way. It's no coincidence that Kawhi jumped from the Spurs to the Raps and did not miss a single beat. We have to establish winning habits. Trae can claim he wants to win a ring so bad, but he has to back it up now by evolving his mindset even further. Every possession has to matter to him, on both ends. He doesn't have to be a great defender, he just has to give great effort. That will inspire his teammates to play harder. He has to make the right reads even if it means he doesn't score or get the assist. He has to put his body on the line for his teammates. These are things that will set a standard for everyone else to follow. No more being fun to watch. You have to hate losing more than you like winning. Which means doing the dirty work to win, and not only being flashy. The scariest part about this is that everyone player that Trae compares best with: CP3, Nash, Iverson, Harden, etc... None of them have ever held up a trophy. Trae has to channel his inner Isiah and Curry. Team over everything. Winning over everything. That's how you lay the foundation for what could eventually become a dynasty. It starts with one though. You have to win one first, before you can win multiple. My thoughts

It’s neither, or just a combination of both if you ask me. For instance. One of the golden rules of basketball, when your star gets doubled someone else has to step up. For the majority of the series that did not happen. Dre, Bogi, Gallo, Wright would all hit a few open shots due to being left open. That’s it. In game 5, that helped Dre get in to a shooting rhythm, but it wasn’t going to be enough on it’s own. Dre flipped a switch and started playing with aggression. That’s the “star” mentality we started to see. He began creating offense for himself to take advantage of the switches and late close outs by Miami. He did not just shoot open shots. He started getting in to lane and attacking, something Miami didn’t expect, and due to his size and length, Miami couldn’t just knock him around like they did Trae. Once Dre realized this, everyone in the building did too. With Jimmy/Lowry out and PJ focusing on Trae, it was obvious that Dre could eat against their defense. Eventually, Miami started adjusting to account for Dre. They put PJ on him, they even started to double him more. None of it mattered. Dre’s confidence was on another level. He was now hitting everything, even when tightly contested. And he was doing it on both ends, which is another reason I can’t give Trae all the credit. Dre was a defensive playmaker as well. To me, a true “star” can get theirs no matter what. I do not know that Dre is there yet. Not consistently anyway. But what he learned was how to play off of Trae and attack a physical, aggressive defense in multiple ways using his full bag of tricks. That’s what guys like Middleton do. They keep you honest to where you have to respect someone other than the star. None of us fear Middleton. But he will be the reason you lose if you do not account for him. That’s what Dre can be right now. Especially if we start game-planning to get him going. If we can get him to make a quick 3-4 shots out the gate each game, Trae’s nights would be so much easier. It will keep defenses honest and on their heels.

Farreal? That’s highway robbery

Here is a great breakdown of game 3. And despite the focus of the vid, my biggest takeaway was our slow reaction time to get the ball out to the corner, be shot ready, or go backdoor on the weakside corner defender whose eyes were completely locked in on Trae. To me, this was the missed opportunity of the series. Trae, who I love, was the main culprit of over-dribbling and not taking advantage of their over extending the defense on the ball. Look at these possessions. The corner is wide open, even with poor spacing half the time. We got hot enough that game to barely win, but we clearly did not gameplan for this weakness in their defensive strategy. That corner guy should be eating on backdoor cuts, offensive rebounds, and attacking closeouts. We did not take advantage of Trae’s half court gravity. If anything it looked like Nate told Trae to just slow down and play “calm and cool”. The better decision would have been to have him get the ball out quicker to the open teammate. This was a series that we could have won if the team bought in to the hockey assist and not the stand and wait for Trae strategy. That rock should be moving as soon as the help defender comes over to Trae. Im ok with the misses, because those shots were wide open and the corner 3 is the best shot in basketball after a layup or FT. If we had hit enough 3’s, Miami has to adjust their scheme. That loosens up the aggressive defense and gives Trae more room to work. We tried too hard to keep it simple and did not play smart. Miami got away with a risky strategy.

Bingo We have 48 minutes of Capela + OO at center right now. Both very talented defensive centers. And all the talk is about needing to bring in a center that can play defense…? We have TWO of them, and their combined salary is by far less expensive than the one we want to add. Something doesn’t add up to me there. Meanwhile, there isn’t a single guard on this team other than Trae that can attack a defense and get to the FT line. And other Delon, none that can stay in front of their man. Let’s take inventory: Trae: Superstar, check Dre: 2-way player with size, major offensive upside and real defensive talent, check JC: 2 way big man that can stretch the floor, get buckets in the mid post, and is a big time finisher at the rim, check Clint/OO: between the two of them can guard ANY big man in the league with proven results, check. We insert a SG, Combo Guard, or Wing in to this equation that can defend at a high level and take pressure away from Trae on offense and you are talking about a complete and contending lineup. What’s that you say? Oladipo is an UFA? He played under Nate before? His market value is still low? Got it, let’s trade 2 of our best players for a draft pick and a Center. That’ll fix the problem.

Proof that Capela is already someone else's Prom date since he was Dallas' first choice?

I thought that Gallo's contract was not worth the full value in a trade or something like that? Or am I confusing that with Ayton... Either way, if that means we can take back a player or pick from Minny I am cool with that too. Kev wasn't included in the Ayton deal iirc. But yes, that just opens up more minutes and scoring for Russell. Wright, idk, just got to squeeze him in some kind of way, I'm not the money guy. I am a visionary lol

I'm in to this nickname! lol My best case scenario based on today's updated info is coming out of the offseason looking something like this: Trae/Russell Delon/Kev Dre/ JC/JJ (Ayton or Gobert)/ OO And fill in the rest of the roster with a couple of cheap vets. Russell is a exactly the kind of scoring/creation type player we need off the bench but obviously get starter's minutes. Kev's role gets reduced but he get's to back up both the 2 and 3. Nate finally owns up to his defensive reputation and gives Delon the starting nod. This opens up more shot opportunities for Dre who finally stays healthy and takes a leap Dre and Russell will average 18 to 22 ppg apiece. Russell is in the mix for 6MOTY, Hunter gets talks of MIP. JC and the Center we bring in average a combined 32 pts and 20+ rebs. Delon and OO have low counting stats but make a huge impact outside of the boxscore. Kev and JJ are able to have huge nights here and there with out being counted on to contribute every night. Kev becomes the wildcard for us that when he is on, we blow teams away, but even if he is off, we still have more than enough fire power to win.

I hope it's the latter. As that means maybe we can offload a couple of contracts like Gallo+Bogi and they actually go for it with out trying to win the trade

Boom, I agree. And there has to be a way we ca upgrade the 2 with out moving JC for a pick. And honestly, if we get Gobert, I am interested and just running it back with the remaining pieces just to prove he is not good enough to make up for the lack of perimeter defense on the roster by himself.

“The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.” Sorry I missed the memo where this was a trade/FA signing only discussion thread. That being said. JC’s name is the most referenced in regards to trade rumors. I do not see an issue with diving in to his value and impact as it relates to our opinion on what is being rumored in return for him. We are only talking about JC because the insiders and rumors are talking about him. He is one the hot takes right now. Gobert being the other. I think its a little nit-picky to try and filter that out. Once the insiders report that his name has been pulled off the trading block maybe then we can re-focus the conversation.

Listen for yourself, from the mouths of everyone in the organization. Believe them, not us.

I see no need to move JC right now. It screams of desperation and frugality. OO is not a PF today. We do not need to rush this process. There will be another draft, there will be more vets that want out of their current situation. If it’s not there its not there. No need to force change. Losing a bonafide starter for a rookie and a scrub vet is cheapskate team management. Contenders do not make those moves. They are not giving away proven talent for picks. I hate we even think this is a reasonable idea.

That’s the part that sucks. He would have dominated and established momentum ahead of his sophmore season. It’s the Rife show now I guess.

Gobert’s teams have never gone past the second round. Not a single time. Goberts team finished 1st place in 2021. Still got bounced out in round 2. The only other years he made the playoffs they were no higher than the 5th seed on 4 different occasions, and finished 6th the other time. That is him “raising our floor”. Gobert’s teams have been eliminated by the Mavs, Clippers, Nuggets, Rockets, Rockets, Warriors. All of those teams beat the Jazz because of elite play from guards or wings. Even the Nuggets with Jokic, got past Utah because Jamal Murray went OFF against them. Why is that? Because Gobert cannot slow anyone down outside of the paint. All that elite defense and he was neutralized by putting a stretch big in the corner that he had to honor, and they just worked the other 2/3’s of the court. My point. We NEED improved play from the SG position on both ends. Gobert doesn’t defend guards. That is what we are lacking on this team. As many stated, we can keep Clint or get Ayton for less. We will be weak defensively no matter what until Trae gets another defender next to him. Gobert has not gotten out of the 2nd round. I cannot stress this enough. He has NO impact when the games matter most. ZERO. He is on the WRONG side of 30 as a big man. Meaning he will NOT live anywhere near up to his contract in a few years once his lower body starts to age and he can’t move away from the paint just like he barely can now. If we do not sure up our perimeter defense we are in big trouble. Does not matter who is on the backline when our guards are playing like matadors. Gobert cannot defend wings and guards. That is why Utah routinely gets bounced every single year. We already have OO who has proven in just 2 seasons that he can hang with both Giannis and Joel, the only 2 big men worth fearing in our conference. We do not lack defense from the 5 position. We have 48 minutes of Clint and OO, who combined will cost 15 million less than Gobert annually. Meanwhile, we have 30 million+ tied up in 2 SG’s who cannot defend their position, and cannot consistently punish teams for trapping Trae. This is not rocket science people. There is a clear problem on the roster and Gobert does not fix it AT ALL.

Upgrade center. Hold out for a better wing option to open up down the line. I would not move JC for a draft pick. He is the last available chess piece if we want to eventually trade for a star. That star may not be available today, but he will be at some point. Things change fast in the NBA. We cannot move all of our tradeable contracts in one offseason without bringing in that star piece we have been searching for since Trae was drafted. 4 years later and we tell Trae, hey, we are trading JC to draft this kid with major upside for you. Trae going to say, so what was Dre, Cam, and OO for ? The best player TS drafted other than Trae is JC. He is a perfect fit with Trae. They have chemistry and are battle testing together. Why grasp straws to “hopefully” find another player like this when he already exists? You know who fits really well next to Gobert? JC

None of this sounds promising to me FYI. But, whatever. Instead of upgrading our only true weakness, which is a bonafide SG option next to Trae, we are going to ship out 3 starting level, high impact players for 1 max contract at center who can't perform in the playoffs and the roll of the dice to draft a wing that will sit behind whatever vets we have left on the roster. Got it. We are about to get hosed.

KVon is thee man. Kevin, however, is wildly inconsistent. Kevin needs to go to the bench or be shipped out. He is too talented and skilled to disappear the way he does. If he was just a shooter, I could understand having off nights or slumps. But he can get to the rim off the dribble if he wanted, yet lacks aggression. Defensively, he showed that he could hold his own in ‘21, but came crashing back to earth in ‘22. The issue with Kevin is that he plays better as a starter than as a reserve. The team needs an upgrade at SG though. More toughness and aggression next to Trae, not soft tissue. People can toss around JC all they want, but Kev is just as attractive of a trade piece. I would not make him a sacred cow. Our team was night and day better with Delon next to Trae. Imagine building upon that strategy.

A good defender at the 2 can offset the need for elite defense at the 4/5. For instance, Trae, Delon, Dre, JC, Ayton is 4 good to great defenders next to Trae. OO is the first big off the bench. Whichever wing we keep between Kev and Bogi goes in for Trae and Delon moves to PG. That is a solid defensive unit Heck, we had Clint and still struggled defensively. It wasn't because the Center was weak, it was because the guards were. Were we not a better defense when Kev was locked in last season? Upgrade perimeter defense and the entire profile of the team rises. I would be just fine if we added Ayton for Capela and assets and added a bucket getter off the bench. I'm fine with losing Bogi, Kev, Gallo, or #16.

Bird in the hand vs 2 in the bush. Some are willing to make change for the sake of change. Trae is the first real superstar we have had since Nique. You don’t trade away his best teammates for the opportunity to select the 7th best player in any draft. Especially one that is a leader and highly effective and efficient next to Trae. If we lose JC it needs to be in a deal for a proven upgrade. Not chasing rookie potential. Trae is too competitive to accept us taking a rebuild while Luka, Ja, and maybe even Zion, if he plays next season, get all the headlines while their teams compete in the postseason and we are at home celebrating a lottery pick. This season was a disappointment, Trae wants us to be better next season, not worse.