TheNorthCydeRises

Quote: You are forgetting a plethora of other mistakes: 1. Not resigning Pryzbilla in favor of Collier (r.i.p.). Joel signed a deal for less money. 2. Trading Nazr for basically a 2nd round pick, Donta 3. a. Trading JT, Hendu, and I believe some draft pick for Antoine and Delk (a deal in money terms that only saved us $4 million) b. Trading Antoine for a draft pick that will probably end up being a late 1st rounder in 07. c. Trading that pick along with a 1st rounder and Diaw for a massively overpaid JoJo 4. "Throwing in" Dan Dickau into the Rasheed trade. 5. a. Firing Terry Stotts b. Signing Mike Woodson 6. Ivey over Duhon 7. Obinna Ekezie 8. Travis Hansen #3 is controversial and a little abstract, but all the others are fairly straight forward and obvious bad decisions. LOL. Some of you guys are going to extremes now. Come on now. Citing 2nd round picks as mistakes? About 75% of the 2nd round picks in this league fail to turn out to be much of anything. Most of the players that many of you have talked about ( Iggy, Deng, Duhon, Nelson, etc ), were or are surrounded by ALL-STAR caliber players or very good players. Why are people ranting and raving about Iggy, when he's playing alongside Allen Iverson? Deng and Duhon stepped into a Chicago team that had a decent PG in Hinrich, and a damn good young frontline in Curry and Chandler, along with Antonio Davis. Even Jameer Nelson started in Orlando with Steve Francis and Cuttino Mobely in the backcourt. I'm sure they taught him a thing or two. What the Hawks needed was a superstar player to build around. That's why you make the JJ trade and draft Marvin Williams. I think one of the major mistakes Knight made this year, was not bringing in a scoring guard to this team. That scorer could've been at the PG position or at the SG position. If we were to play JJ at the point, we needed somebody in the backcourt with him who could provide some scoring punch. You had a lot of SG's and PG's that were available this summer. But we couldn't get a one, outside of JJ and Lue. If you put another scorer alongside JJ, that may have eased some of the pressure off of him and maybe even off of Al. But that issue brings up another problem with the Hawks . . NO ONE WANTS TO PLAY HERE. How many guys this summer passed up this team, to play with a winner for LESS money? Even with the JJ situation, we had to overpay for him just to get him to bite. As for the rest of you talking about Diaw, where would Diaw play on this team? And who would he take playing time from? Does he sit Al down? How about Smoove? Childress? ( remember, most thought that Chill was our 3rd or 4th best player at the time ) Do we put Diaw at the point and JJ at the 2? ( remember, Diaw played the point on occasion during the Summer League in Utah. I don't remember too many people ranting and raving about Diaw then ) And what about Marvin? With Diaw on the team, do you take time away from Marvin? People, we need to stop the "would've, could've, should've" type talk. The talk should be about using what we have now, and how to make it better, or who we can bring in to make the existing talent better. "Would've, could've, should've" talk will only drive each and every one of you crazy.

One of the key things that Paul is getting that Marvin isn't . . is PLAYING TIME. That has a lot to do with Paul's success, compared to Marvin's success so far. It just so happens that Marvin had 2 or 3 players that the Hawks can justify playing ahead of him. In OKC, Paul immeadiately became the team's floor leader. IF Paul was the backup PG, people probably wouldn't be ranting and raving about the guy. I think we need to deal Harrington as quickly as possible, and insert Marvin in the starting lineup. Smoove will have to become the 4 on this team, especially on defense. The departure of Harrington may also enable the Hawks to do a little more with JJ on the offensive end.

I agree. But I'm sure Diesel will be heartbroken.

Quote: You guys are missing the point i believe. Nobody has even touched on it. Granted this is not a no brainer trade but it is a much better trade than you guys seem to think. The reason goes back to a question: What is more important in basketball, offense or defense? The answer is defense, for a very simple reason. Even the best offensive players/teams blow hot and cold. That is the nature of shooting. Even the best shooters have days when they can't buy a bucket, and usually it affects the shooting of the rest of the team. Defense is different. A strong defender is generally a strong defender night in and night out. Some days a player may be tired or less motivated than others but overall their defensive performance will be much more consistent than the performance of a good offensive player. How many off nights do Ben Wallace and Bruce Bowen have on D? If you combine their off nights and add them up for a year they won't equal the number of off shooting nights guys like Ray Allen or Kobe Bryant have in a month. Earl Watson is one of the best defenders in the game at the point position. Salim is a scorer off the bench. Which will be more valuable night in and night out? LOL . . actually . . Salim as a scoring threat is much more needed for the Hawks than Watson as a defender. If Watson comes here, he's going to have to provide points as well as his defense. Because we'll still not be able to stop people on the interior, it will be important for us to still put points on the board. Part of the problem with the Hawks, is that they go through long scoring droughts ( 3 + minutes at a time ) in which the game usually gets out of hand. It's not the other team's PGs that are usually torching us on offense, it's the forwards and centers. Salim isn't a horrible defender like Lue, but he isn't Earl Watson on defense either. Once Harrington is dealt, we're going to need someone to score on this team outside of JJ. Salim may be forced to be that guy.

http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_3276283 Harrington likely to fly Hawks' coop By Marc J. Spears Denver Post NBA beat reporter Forward Al Harrington isn't a household name. No one who plays for the woeful Atlanta Hawks is. So why do so many NBA general managers covet him? Because Harrington can play both forward positions, he can score inside and out, he rebounds well and is an above-average passer. And he's only 25. The 6-foot-9, 245-pounder will be an unrestricted free agent in the offseason. And because Harrington is in the final year of a contract paying $6.9 million this season, expect several teams to make a run at him before the Feb. 23 trading deadline, or after the season if he isn't traded. "I try not to think about it. It's a reality," Harrington said. "My agent's working for me. He's keeping his finger to the pulse of what is going on. Obviously, if it were a situation where I do make a move or do get traded, it would be to a team that is at least competing for the championship. That would be a good thing to at least get to a team of that caliber and show what I can do on a national stage once again. I kind of hope it doesn't happen." Expect it to happen. While it could be risky to acquire Harrington now because he will become a free agent, the team he finishes the season with will have his "Bird rights," which will allow the team to sign him to a six-year contract with 12.5 percent pay increases. Other teams under the salary cap could sign him to a five-year deal, at best, with annual 8 percent pay increases. The New York Knicks would like to acquire Harrington now because they are over the salary cap and can sign him next year only if he is their free agent. Knicks general manager Isiah Thomas coached Harrington when both were with the Indiana Pacers. The Knicks are not fond of the idea of giving up young talent in return, however. The Chicago Bulls are believed to be interested in Harrington to improve their team and block the rival Knicks from getting him. New Orleans/Oklahoma City and Charlotte will have salary cap room to go after Harrington next summer. The Nuggets have interest in Harrington, too, but a trade is unlikely because Atlanta would want injured forward-center Nene in return. Harrington was averaging 17.6 points, 8.6 rebounds, 3.3 assists and 1.38 steals. Expect Harrington's agent, Andy Miller, to get his client a huge deal in the offseason. "I'm getting better every year. I'm 25 so I haven't reached the prime of my career yet," Harrington said. Said Nuggets forward Carmelo Anthony: "He plays hard at all times. That's what I like about him." Indiana traded Harrington to Atlanta on July 15, 2004, for guard Stephen Jackson. Word at the time was Harrington wanted out because he couldn't break into the starting lineup over all-star forwards Jermaine O'Neal and Ron Artest. Harrington, however, begs to differ. And if he's traded to a more competitive team, expect him to accept coming off the bench. "I had no problems playing the sixth man," Harrington said. "I never said I wanted to start. I never went to the coach's office or to Isiah's office when he was there and said I wanted to start. No one can ever say I said that. "I had no problems playing sixth man. Especially when Ron and Jermaine were out of the game, I felt I was good enough to carry the team. I wanted more responsibilities like that, and (Pacers coach) Rick (Carlisle) didn't want to do that." Hawks general manager Billy Knight wants to keep Harrington. But expect the Hawks to trade Harrington either before the trading deadline or in a sign-and-trade after the season so they don't lose him without getting anything in return. Unless they can improve their roster dramatically, Harrington doesn't figure to want to stay around. "(Winning is) very important to me," Harrington said. "I promise it is. I took winning for granted. It would take a lot for them to sign me back. Obviously, money, No. 1. No. 2, we just have to find a way to get some other players, some good veteran guys in here because I've got to start winning again. "It's the worst, losing all the time. Can't sleep. Can't eat. Your body feels terrible all the time. Winning is very important to me, which is the reason I'm going to go to free agency and just weigh my options." ************************** After last night's performance, please trade him now, so that we can get a very good look at Marvin. He should be gone to somebody by January.

LOL . . I don't know if Lenny would come back here. Silas seems to be a guy that has no problem coaching young talent, and molding them into something tangible. Whomever we get, we need either an offensive minded coach, or a great teacher. Maybe a Donn Nelson Jr. Hubie Brown would be ideal, but I don't think he's coaching again. Although they coached in the WNBA, I'd even take a look at guys like Michael Cooper and especially Bill Laimbeer. Laimbeer, if anything, could make us a tougher team mentally. I'd even give Nolan Richardson a call, and see if he would be interested.

LOL @ Ex. Offering to trade Salim for Watson, on a team that already struggles mightily to score? How about trading Lue for Watson, and we keep Salim?

Quote: Northclyde, you make some interesting observations. All of us want things to work out and hindsight is always said to be 20-20. Players turn out to be better or worse than projected on draft night. Some are already giving up on M.W. because he isn't leading us to the promise land. Looking back, we see what players were available and what they are doing for their teams RIGHT NOW. We want things to work out for us and when they don't right away, we tend to panic. This is a long term project. "Lord, give me patience and give it to me NOW!" seems to be the prayer of all of us who follow the Hawks. LMAO . . exactly. I'm just glad that these guys are competing night after night and haven't even begun to give up on the season. Some of our fans could take a note from this team on what perseverence is. As bad as we feel about the losing, no one feels as worse as they do. Especially when they've been so close in 1/2 the games this year. Hawk fans need to understand that while we could've added a key piece in Paul, we may not have other key pieces here strictly because of circumstance and what the situation called for. It's like the movie "It's A Wonderful Life". When George goes back to his town, things aren't nearly the same as when he was there before.

And after that team goes 2 - 13 . . 1 - 14 . or whatever, we'd be crying about how we needed another scorer here to play alongside Paul and Harrington. What would the rumor be then? Childress for Deshawn Stevenson? Childress for Voshon Lenard? Or would everybody be talking about drafting Rudy Gay, and playing him at the 2? Or worse, would everybody be talking about drafting JJ Reddick?

This team has lost 5 games by 4 points or less . . and with a chance to either ice the game with FTs, get a stop to ice the game, or flat out win the game on the last possession. And yet, some of you act like this team is light years away from being decent. Ish . .we could've been 7 - 8 right now even with all of these holes in the lineup. I'll say this again about Chris Paul. If we draft him: - we take Ronny Turiaf in round 2, not Salim . . because it makes no sense to draft two small guards, when you have a need for a big after you already get your PG in round 1. - instead of Cenk at #59, we take Randolph Morris - we go after one of the Chicago big men, not Joe Johnson, because we still needed a 5 more than we needed a 2 . . especially after the guys we really wanted ( Ray Allen and Larry Hughes ), were off the board - if we get Curry or Chandler, we probably don't make a 4.4 million a year play to get ZaZa . . seeing that the ZaZa signing was a direct result of us not being able to get Curry or Chandler or Dalembert ( whom a lot of you wanted to pay big money for ) - we probably don't make a play for Lue, and just go with Ivey and Delk as the backup PGs - and after we find out that Turiaf has a heart condition, we probably bring back a guy like Ekezie. These are probably the Hawks, if we drafted Paul PG - Paul G/F - Childress F - Smith F - Harrington C - Chandler ( because we'd probably would've been too spooked to offer Curry a big deal . . especially after he blew us off in June ) Bench: G - Delk G - Ivey G/F - Diaw G/F - Donta F - Turiaf C - Morris C - Collier ( R.I.P. ) THAT is probably the Hawks team we're looking at right now. Everything we did after the draft was a direct result of the players that we drafted and the players we COULDN'T GET in free agency. With Paul, you'd have no Salim, no JJ, and no ZaZa. Instead, you'd have Turiaf, Chandler, and Morris. I'll take the team we have now, thank you.

Quote: so i guess i'm the only one that thinks that Joe Johnson can be our point guard? look he may not be Jason Kidd, but he is definitely serviceable as a scoring point guard and i really don't think his play is the reason for our demise. we should focus on what is really causing our problems and then later can tweak the things the are smaller(joe being a scoring point rather than dishing point)...and to me, it's D in the post and getting a 3rd player to step up on scoring. i truly believe that every team needs a big three. (( clapping )) Great posts Doc. I agree with everything you said. While people are trying to trade this and trade that, we should be trying to make the best out of what we have right now. I absolutely hate to see Salim in the game for 4 - 5 minute stretches at a time, and only getting one shot. Run some plays for the guy, instead of just letting him stand out on the perimeter and wait for the ball to be swung to him. Salim should be getting 10 - 15 shots a game. And you're right on the money about JJ playing the point. He would be fine if he had a veteran SG out there with him. A Spreewell or even a Wesley Person would be adequate for JJ right now, until we get that PG here. But people act like it's a crime for JJ to be playing the point. Shoot, he may be the best option we have right now at the position. If Lue played like he did last night in every game, I'd have little problem with him. LOL . . but we all know that he doesn't play like that most of the time. If Lue runs the team, and JJ is the fist option, I have no problem with that. But Lue is too passive of a PG these days to justify giving him 30 minutes a game. Because of that, I want to see JJ at the point at least 20 - 25 minutes a game, along with Salim beside him at the 2 . . with PLAYS being ran for Salim. JJ could run the team, while deferring to Salim and others for offense . . and JJ could still get his own shot whenever he wanted.

Quote: Salim does seem to be bothered by taller defenders, so they definitely need to run some plays for him to get some clean looks. I think if the offense as a whole improves then that will open up more opportunities for Salim. When the ball is moving quickly the defense can only rotate so fast and Salim doesn't need much time to get his shot off. You're right about Salim being bothered by taller defenders. And you're right about how quicker ball movement can get him easier looks. It might be scary to see how he shoots, if he actually had some plays ran for him.

Quote: smoove needs to get mins at pf, at least on defense and what about batman? he could develop into a nice bruiser for us...he did well on jermaine and hasn't played since I agree totally. Whether if he can guard them or not, he needs to be in the game regardless, just for the threat of a block. But it's a delicate balance with Al. We need his offense, but not his defense. We could take Chill out and put Smoove at the 4 and Al at the 3 . . but he'd just get burned by the 3's in the league. So the other alternative would be to take ZaZa out the lineup, and put Al at ( gasp ) the 5 and Smoove at the 4. Or we could try to rotate JJ down to the 3 - 4 spot on defense somehow, and have Salim/Lue and Chill/Ivey on the guards, with Smoove and JJ on the forwards and ZaZa/Al on the 5. In Phoenix, JJ has guarded some 4's for short periods of time. LOL . . damn. We need a Big 4 or 5, a PG, and a BIG or defensive minded 2. Call Spree and see if he wants to play with the Hawks for about 1.75 million for this year only. And call Randolph Morris and tell him "ummmm . . the NCAA isn't letting you go back to Kentucky, so you might as well come down here to ATL and sign a rookie minimum contract for a year."

Quote: Let's see if his point total can exceed his field goal attempts. Hasn't happened in awhile. LOL . . so much for the challenge.

Quote: we lose because we're a two-player team instead of a three player team...especially when one of those (al) makes some mistakes. The Hawks need to get out of denial about the makeup of this team. We're not a shut down defensive team. We can be a decent offensive team dependin on who's on the floor and what their role in the offense is. I'll give Lue credit tonight. While his shot was off, he did do a good job running the offense while he was in there with JJ. But Woodson is going to have to get a 3rd scorer in this offense. And we all know who it should be. Whenever Salim is in the game, plays need to be ran for him 50% - 75% of the time. Run the pick and roll, slip screens, or set multiple picks for the guy, so that he can get his shot. If he is to be our "Ben Gordon", he needs the same amount of shot attempts that Gordon gets, whether his shot is falling or not. 10 shots per game minimum for Salim. Perferably, 15 shots a game. We're just going to have to use our best offensive weapons to try to outscore people, instead of trying to turn bad defensive players into decent defenders.

LOL . . I didn't say anything about Phoenix's overall rebounding. I said that Marion grabs about 3 - 4 offensive boards a game. What I didn't add to that, is that Marion usually SCORES off of those offensive rebounds. That team takes a lot of long jumpshots, so of course they'll get outrebounded on most nights. But that team, when they do grab offensive rebounds, make you pay dearly for it either with a putback or by kicking it out and draining a wide open 3. That's how they get up on teams so quickly.

And Diaw didn't get an opportunity here? Come on now. Diaw was arguably one of the most passive players ever to put on a Hawks uniform. We literally had to beg the guy to shoot sometimes. In Phoenix, a good or a bad shot is OK, because they have a freak like Marion that can grab about 3 - 4 offensive boards a game.

Interesting 3-way trade right there. With Voshon Lenard pouting, maybe we could acquire him as well in the deal, and send Denver Lue. Not sure how all that plays out salary cap wise though.

LOL . . will everybody please stop about Diaw? It's obvious that the Phoenix system is maximizing his skills. Sometimes, when guys go to other teams in a different environment, they just play better. Do you think the Bucks would've let ZaZa go, if they thought he could be a 13 and 10 guy, like he is for us? Instead, they give a HUGE deal to Dan Gadzuric. Then for some reason, they felt that Danny boy wasn't ready to log big minutes and they were very uneasy with Bogut playing center, after his Summer League performances. So they trade Mason to bring in Magloire . . another big. These days, Gadzuric will be lucky to log 10 minutes a game, while ZaZa is becoming one of the few nice stories for the Hawks as a starter. Gadz is destined to be a benchwarmer for the Bucks for at least 2 more years, until Magloire's and Smith's deals run out. Talking about Diaw is senseless because his situation in Phoenix is FAR DIFFERENT than his situation while in Atlanta. And you can say the same thing about ZaZa.

It might take the Phoenix game in order to show Woodson how we should be playing. That team, while it tries on defense, knows that they're not beating anybody with their defense. But we try to play like the Pistons, and shut people down while running a half court game. I hope Woodson will see that maybe this team just needs to play a little faster, instead of worrying about getting into our offense. Most of our guys are good enough ball handlers to at least push the ball into the frontcourt, then get it to one of our guards to possibly set the offense. Phoenix will show the team how to play "team ball" . . then we'll beat them with a good 2nd half showing.

Quote: Like I said before...we need a vet proven coach in here quick....Al is poutin because he thinks this should be his team, but he can't produce like a superstar....the Hawks don't have a Wade or Shaq or Kobe or KG or AI....but they do have enough talent to compete if they share the ball. What Al and Joe have to learn though, if Salim or Marvin or the Joshs are playing better than them...then we need to run plays for them too....Salim does not have enough plays run for him...neither does Marvin....I would rather Salim take 20 shots that Joe take 20....honestly. That's not Al and Joe's job though. That's the job of the coach. It's the coach that's not running the plays for Salim. Man . . if all of this is happening on this team, maybe Woodson isn't the right guy for the job. Everybody on this team needs to start doing the small things to win games.

Almost every Hawk fan, outside of yourself, is convinced that this organization will HAVE to deal Harrington in Feb. or sometime before then. Maybe you're in denial about that, but the rest of us aren't. They HAVE to trade Al, or risk losing him for nothing. Most of us know this too. This is the main reason why they took Marvin Williams, once Bogut was off the board. I'll even admit that trading Al may be a mistake, but if he bounces at the end of the year, we have NO CHOICE. BK and Al can talk all they want about their relationship with each other. When a borderline playoff team or a low seed playoff team comes at Al with a 6 - 9 million dollar deal . . and we try to go a little over what they offer him . . he's taking their deal and leaving us like an ugly girl at the Prom. And here's another angle that you and others haven't looked at with Al. He's playing with JJ, who arguably isn't even a better player than he is . . right now. I think most believe that JJ is more talented, but not necessarily playing better than Al. Problem is . . he's being PAID like he's head and shoulders better than Al. And that could be a problem in the offseason, if we don't trade him before the deadline in Feb. If I'm Al's agent, I'm coming at the Hawks just like this: "Look . . you know my guy wants to stay here. But we can't stay here for cheap. Your organization hasn't been able to sign any unrestricted free agents since you've been here. And the guy that you did get last year, you had to give away not only money, but future players, in order to get him. So point blank, we're looking to get paid . . if we stay here. My client is better ( arguably ) than the guy you're paying the max for, so we want HIS kind of money . . or close to it. Let's start with a 4 or 5 year deal worth 10 million a year, and go from there." (( I can hear the Hawks fans now reading this, saying HELLLLLLLLLLLL NOOOOOO !! )) It would be foolish for Al to re-sign with a bad, young team like this one, and not try to get as big of a contract as possible out of them. He's not re-signing for 6 - 7 million, if he has a similar offer from other teams on the table. If BK TRULY wants Harrington around for the next few years, he should try to sign him to a 4 year - 32 million extension ( which is still too much, but probably necessary to keep him here and have him sign early before he tests his true market value ) If they fail to re-sign him, at least you have 7 million off the books to work with in the offseason. But I think most of us would rather have some players in a Harrington trade, than to take a risk and have to attract UFA's to the team in the summer. *************** As far as Chris Paul goes, here's been my take on him since Day 1. If the Hawks organization wasn't convinced that he was the 2nd coming of Isaiah Thomas, they COULDN'T take him at #2. Why? Because in the last 25 years, only Isaiah, Kenny Anderson, Allen Iverson, Mike Bibby, and Jay Williams have been guys who were 6-1 and under, who have been taken within the top 2 picks. There have been other PG's taken that high, but they were all bigger, and most were very good defensively because of their size. ( Williams struggled big time on a bad Chicago team in his rookie year . . and it looks like Paul may very well be the next Isaiah. Oh well . . hopefully Marvin can be the next McGrady or James Worthy ). ( Note about the 1998 draft: That class that had a HORRIBLE Top 3 back in 1998 that saw Olowokandi go #1, Bibby #2, and LaFrentz #3 taken as "need" picks . . while guys like Antwan Jamison, Vince Carter, Larry Hughes, Dirk Nowitski, Paul Pierce went after them, but were all top 10 picks. By the way, there's a lot of high quality SF's/swingmen in that group ) If we draft Paul, he'd have to almost be the focal point of our offense. He just couldn't be a guy that managed the game. He'd have to provide some big time scoring punch along with it, for us to be competitive. If he averaged 17 ppg here, would that mean JJ's or Al's produciton would suffer, or could they play at the same level or even better? And people just can't sit there and say that if he were here, things would be different. Paul's presence may help Al and JJ, but what about the other guys? Even with open looks, they're still not knocking down shots. A few of Paul's assists may lead to easy baskets, but he can't shoot the ball for Smoove and Childress. And keep in mind, the JJ talk didn't start until AFTER the draft. So who's to say that we even go after JJ, if we draft Paul? We'd probably be looking at Eddy Curry or Tyson Chandler here. With a team that is rebuilding like we are, it's more important for us to try to amass talent, at whatever position, than to try to fill a "need". You talk about a SF being a "dime a dozen". Well, there have been a lot of quality PG's taken in this league, that weren't taken in the top 5 of the draft just in the past 10 years. - Hinrich and TJ Ford went #7 and #8 in 2003. In that same draft, Ridnhour goes #14 - Tony Parker went #28 in 2001 - Dre Miller went #8 in 1999 - Bobby Jackson, a guy I'd love to have here, went #23 in 1997 - Nash went #15, and Derek Fisher went #24 in 1996 - Damon Stoudamire went #7 in 1995 I won't deny that even I would liked to have Paul here. But like people said, it's over and done with. WE took Marvin, not Paul. But this team is strapped for talent just about everywhere. For us to complete any type of rebuilding process, we're not only going to need a PG, but also a couple of superstar players to play with him. Without Marvin, we'd be counting on either Al ( if we're able to re-sign him ), or Smoove or Chill to become stars. Here are some factors that has contributed to Paul's immeadiate success. - Byron Scott is his coach, a guy who coached the Nets and Jason Kidd when they were winning the East. - Speedy Claxton: A true luxury for the Hornets in the fact that he can push tempo just as well as Paul. That team doesn't lose a step if he plays the point for Paul. And they're damn good when he AND Paul handle the ball. They let him play the point, while Paul plays the 2. That's a luxury we just don't have here, seeing that we can't even get one of our PG's to even be consistent with JJ at the 2. - PJ Brown: A wiley veteran who is tough defensively and can still rebound with the best of them. If, like you say all the time, we can get a guy like Rajon Rondo to run the point, push the ball up the court, drive and dish, and drive to the basket and score, it'll only make the Marvin Williams pick that much better when he starts to be comfortable with the NBA game. We'll have our PG and our "potential" superstar. Or . . Maybe the Hawks could re-sign your boy Al, and get a guy like Claxton to run the squad next year. My prediction is that if this team doesn't re-sign Al before Feburary, he'll be traded. We can't risk losing him for nothing, so we have to do it.

Oh ye of little faith. I don't expect this team to play well against good to great teams. I do expect them to be in the game against mediocre to bad teams. Ish . . we still have the Charlottes, Torontos, New Yorks and Orlandos of the world to play. Along with the other mediocre teams in the east. Those are the types of teams that the Hawks will win against. Not the San Antonios and Detroits of the world. And who would've guessed that the Clippers would be this good? We've played them twice already. There are a lot of reasons for this slow start. But there are reasons to believe that this team will start to improve throughout the year and win some games too.

LOL . . you've waited this long for the team, surely you can wait some more. Let me tell some of you something. A team that is only projected to win 30 games at the max, are destined to have PLENTY of games like tonight's game. Especially when we play good teams. REalistically, we can't expect to beat any of the upper echilon teams. Those teams should be us by 15 - 20 every night. Against the top 6 - 12 teams, we'll probably lose by 7 - 15 points 75% of the time . . while only winning 15% of the time. Against everybody else, we should at least be competitive and be able to win at least 40% of the games. AT home, we're not going to win more than 15 - 20 games. On the road, that number drops to 5 - 10 games. I mean, are you people expecting this team to play at a high or even a mediocre level every night? Well . . it's not going to happen. Especially against a team that arguably has a top 5 player, and 3 - 4 other guys who have been former All-Stars in this league. To put things in perspective, we were 2 - 12 this time last year too. And we lost 9 of our first 14 games by 10 points or more. This year, that number is down to 6 . . with 4 close losses. Bottom line is that this team is going to match up well with some teams . . and be horrible against others. But you can't expect a young team like this to play well night in and night out.

Quote: this is what we have ?/ivey jj/slim marvin/chill smoove/? zaza/? we need a starting pg and a backup big...andersen/rmorris/batman/edwards may grow into one or two of those bigs, who knows i'd like to draft rondo to be our pg and use al to figure out our big situation i don't wanna trade jj/slim/marvin/chill/smoove/zaza The trick to all of this, is to NOT PANIC, like Chicago did after they blew up their squad and tried to rebuild it. If this thing is going to work, we have to stick with our core 6 guys ( JJ, Smoove, Chill, Marvin, ZaZa, and Salim ) for the next 2 - 3 years. Personally, I'm all for re-signing Al too. If we do, then the priority turns to finding a quality . . maybe even 2 PG's to bring in. But the Bulls were trying to find a quick fix to everything, and let some big time players go before they fully developed into good players ( Brand, Miller, Artest, Trenton Hassell, Fred Hoiberg, etc ). WE just need to stay with the core, and add to it. The more these guys play together, the more cohesive they'll be out on the court. But we can't do anything stupid . . like trade Al and Smoove or Childress for a STephon Marbury.