Plainview1981

Of course Reef is better than Baker, but along with the dreadful play of the team..After Baker is positing solid 16PPG/7RPG numbers and probably should be comeback player of the year if they had such an award.

Reef will get disrepected by me until his teams actually have a decent record. Reef is NOT better than Kenyon now. Maybe if you could sub out players on defense....

The allstar teams should look like this: PG:Baron Davis/Jason Kidd SG:Allen Iverosn/Pierce/Carter SF:Tracy McGrady/Ron Artest PF:Jermaine O'Neal/Kenyon Martin/Baker C:Ben Wallace/Big Z It's called the all-STAR game. You can't be a star and never have won in 8 years of play. Sadly, Big Z is there due to the lack of centers in the east.

He should lose his starting job as of tonight. You van't play THAT poorly on both ends and retain your job.

As bad as the team is Reef has no business being an allstar. In my view you have to play in atleast some import games to be allstar worthy.

If the Hawks could have made shots and played good defense Toronto wouldn't have been able to get back in the game in the first place. Over and over the Hawks fail to make clutch shots.

He had another shot when he was wide open..A mid range wing shot and missed badly. If JT was shooting for Shyt he wouldn't get a wiff. The bottomline is the team failed to make shots and answer the challenge...Dion also missed a big ft to take the lead...He was without a doubt Torontos best player.

Jt had atleast 3 open shots in the 4th and he MISSED all of them. He IS to blame. These players just can't play in the NBA and win. JT would have had a nice 4th period if they Hawks were down by 15 he'd hit everything then...

Who's gunna guard Vince then? Vaughn? JT? Diaw? The team just isn't good. Blaming the coaching staff is dumb. The coach doesn't play ball.

Nice OPEN 3 Jt barely drew iron on...what a clutch player...

Nice game Hawks.lol

Wait, am I missing something? This lineup is not much of a drop off from the starters? Which person in this lineup is capable of scoring 20+ pts per game? Who is capapble of averaging 9 to 10 boards?" Somebodies got to put up numbers..That's what SAR/JT do in meaningless games. Reef is like Dog, he doesn't play defense so it's easier for him to pickup rebounds.

I think Thomas is the better player 1)He can score 2)He can rebound 3)He's tough 4)He has winning experience However, this doesn't help in a building a team effort. The only player on the team currently with any potential is Boris Diaw...The only real potential he has though is being a Ron Artest lockdown defenders. Ron Artest is the best defender in the NBA...Yes better than Ben Wallace. Artest has locked down Tmac/Paul Pierce and tons of other swing men and forwards. I think Boris can be that type of defender but I doubt he'll ever have the offensive game that Ron Artest has.

Sanford and Son is my favorite also. I could watch every rerun 1,000 and they'd still crack me up. I like the ones where Fred rips on Rollo.

Agreed. I just would like to see Billy do the right thing and start doing what Kiki done. It only teams a year or so and you got a young team ready to go. It will not seem as hard to be a Hawk fan when you have got a team that you can build around. Say we can trade Reef/JT or just one of them in a package and get a lotto pick.... We could have possibly Oakfour/Boris/Dwight Howard/Nazr/ and hopefully a first round steal to start rebuilding around. We'd already have a team on the right path...Maybe try and get kwame at a SMALL price...

Garrity is out for the year

And before you EVEN BEGIN to spout off about being true fan means I can't criticize, no one said that. Just make it constructive. We aren't going to change the world, nor the Hawks for that matter, in here.... this is a place for people that like the team and want to do better. Not a place to be reminded how bad we have it. " Ok. you want me to lie basically. I know where you are coming from in this post and nobody here can change anything...But I'm just like a coach that hates to lose... I'm a Bill Parcells as a fan.......I'm a Bobby Knight as a fan...[censored], I'm a Tony Stewart as a fan...It's just the way I view things.

No one, and I mean no one, enjoys you coming here and incessantly whining and "I-told-you-sos". Just shut up. No one wants to hear it. If you have something constructive to add, then do so. " They'd enjoyed being fed fable comments like"The Hawks are a better team with Big Hog/Big Load" or Reef will average 25PPG with Dog to open things up for him" "Is Reef = Duncan... no. But, we all feel he can be a great player in the right situation" YOU feel he can be a great player in the right situation... But the guy is below average in passing,rebounding, leader ship, ball handling ability...That's alot of things to lack for a supposed great player. " rather than posting the thousands of POSITIVE things that other players and coaches have said in the span of Reef's career. You focus on two compared to the many. " That's because coaches don't like to say bad things about other players all that much. "If you can be constructive, provide examples of what a player could work on, what could we do better... then go ahead..." This team can't win, so what does it matter? When the team has young talent like Denver then we call talk about what players can't improve on. Right now, the team is stuck with fully developed players on a team headed NOWHERE. "We don't need you to shoot off every three seconds about how we stink and we don't have a team. Teams with less talent are winning. Teams with more are losing." Honestly, I don't think there is a team less talented... Even the Jazz...Right now Arryo is providing 16PPG 7APG and is a pure PG. I'll take him over JT..Thank you very much. Matt Harpring is better than Jackson, Stevenson is better than Dion, and it's questionable if Theo is better than Greg Ostertag....GO is a real center than Theo is not...Greg rebounds....Theo does not.... But all I'm saying is quit blaming the coaching staff for a team that simply has not enough talent to win. Nobody, should get mad...It just means that JT/Theo/Reef should be gone and the team should be built over. And unless the Hawks land a top notch FA which isn't likely to happen due to restricted Free Agency then this team will not win games. Stotts isn't perfect, but he's done a respectable job with very little.

(3) You obviously don't watch much of the Spurs. Quite often Duncan is left as a passer/rebounder in the fourth. " You don't have to score to be effective in the 4th. Reef dissappears alltogether. "Consider him Neo. He can offensive charge his way to the hoop. Comparing him to ANYONE is an attempt in futility. " I'll take Hakeem over him anyday. Hakeem won his titles before the league become watered down and boring like it is now. Hakeem was not only a HOF offensive player, but a HOF defensive player aswell. "Putting in the lineup of: Glover Vaughn Diaw Mohammad Crawford" Sadly, that isn't much of a drop off from the starting until. And the hawks blow leads No matter who is in the game. You could tell this game was going to be blown when Detroit picked up the defensive pressure.

YOU may not consider the players stars, but they are. Sorry to tell you, but Reef is still considered a top-tier player in the league." By who, you? lol Reef is considered what he is....A second string PF...Which puts him in the Walker/Jamison slots. Too bad you are too blind to notice..... "You believe Reef scores because teams don't consider him a threat. " I said teams don't really worry about concentrating on him always until late in the game. Players have ALready said it. Coaches have also said Reef isn't that great. Just ask Pat Riley....Ah what would he know...right? "You also feel JT is a complete waste. While he is definitely a tough player to use, he is HARDLY a waste. He just isn't a PG. " He isn't a starter on a winning team either. You don't know how to respond because your an idiot that rides the jock of the losingest player in the NBA...But right, that McGrady isn't all that great. Can't be as good as Reef! lol

He could not come in here and make this team win, that is for sure." Shaq couldn't make this team win. "where shooting percentage and team play takes a backseat. " McGrady shoots 45% for his career...That's allmost as high as your boy Reef and Tmac is a guard and often has to take lower percentage shots. "I mentioned McGrady, Bryant and Francis because those are players that get to dribble the ball and play in similar roles as Jordan did. None of those players possess the ability to force teams to win, like Jordan could. " Reef ain't Tim Duncan either so what's your point? "As for your mentioning of Carter, I said I believe he has the SKILL. Not the attitude. I think he is the only player I mentioned that COULD do what Jordan did. Doesn't mean he will live up to that potential. Again, reading is simple. " MJ in his prime shot 51% and Carter doesn't have that ability....MJ rebounded.....Carter has never shown that kind of ability. All Vince can do is score...He has the potential to do very little else. " Okay, good, you brought Shaq up. Shaq CAN force the team to win." Like he forced The Lakers passed the Spurs?

(2) You don't make wholesale substitutions, because most benches are not equipped with the personnel to handle the game. Thus, you remove two or three starters at a time. When those starters are rested you sub them in and removed the ones you left in. Not the entire lineup at once. That is COLLEGE/HIGH SCHOOL basketball. " Not when the drop off from the starters to the bench is so small.....Only Reef on the team is a legit NBA starter and that isn't saying much. "(4) You can make the assumption that players, especially stars (whether Hotlanta considers them stars or not is a moot point), can play what they normally play." Nobody considers the players here "stars" besides the 3 or 4 Hawk fans out there. They aren't "stars" Stars actually win games. Not sit in mediocrity for 8 years. "(1) You leave in a hot player until he cools, or give him a couple minute breather. You play a hot player as long as humanly possible. If that means he comes near 48 minutes, then so be it." Reef doesn't have that kind of endurance... Again, look above the messages here: Offense 90PPG Defense 96PPG Go show me the teams that win doing that? Stotts does the best possible with this untalented squad.

McGrady, Bryant, Francis and the rest can't do what Jordan did. I think Carter has the skill, but I don't think even he is capable. " LOL Vince Carter....Vince is a TERRIBLE defensive player and really is nothing but a scorer. Never has done any thing but score...Much like the overrated Nique did. McGrady, Bryant, Francis and the rest can't do what Jordan did" And your point is? Shaq isn't as good as Hakeem was in his prime, but he's still worth more than the Hawks entire roster. Never fear, as long as the Hawks have the great Reef they'll always be moving swell. lol Tmac might not be MJ, but he's still worth more than the hawks entire franchise.

Also, again, for you basketball ignorant mind, Reef - as all post players - will typically become a non-factor in closing minutes. It is the name of the game." Yeah whatever. I haven't seen it stop TD or Shaq. Reef is on the same level as Antwan Jamison. They are worth about the same. " If you put a lineup in and immediately the opponents go on a 10-0 streak, then you might want to call a TO." And do what? This team does this all the time. Losing teams will always find away to lose one way or another. These players don't have the ability to regroup...... " but is responsible for lineups. " Yeah look at what he has to work with...next to nothing.

The Hawks couldn't get Tmac for Reef/JT/Theo. Tmac is better than ANYONE that has ever even played here for this team.