Phunkabilly

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

In the neverending quest to give @shakes a heart attack, we have nbaradio recap theater ...

So today, Kam and AD are talking 5 most underrated players in the game today.

Kam says his #5 is Trae.  Kam says his numbers aren't only on track for HOF ... they're on track for him being an all time great!

AD also had Trae and agrees he's an alltimer.  Can't understand why people don't recognize his greatness.

Hmmm, why would this cause shakes dismay?  Well, yesterday, these guys listed their top 5 PG's in the game today....

.... Trae wasn't in either of their top 5's.  Barely made their top 10.

Shakes, you pass out yet?  

Maybe they were listing the top 5 players they underrate themselves??  That's either amazing self awareness, or split personality disorder.

6 hours ago, thecampster said:

The camp battle 4 people, 2 spots. 

 

Why Johnson over Bey at the 4: Johnson makes his opponent work. He moves without the ball (and with). He makes the defense work as he's always a threat to pass. Good hands and makes rebounding look easy.

Why Bey over Johnson at the 4:  Bey shoots a better percentage from 3. Bey hustles. Not normal hustle, the guy never gives up on a play. You reward that. He's next level hustle.

Why Bey over Griffin/Hunter at the 3: see above, hustle. Best rebounder at 3 and best hair. Bey makes defenders work harder.

Why Hunter over Griffin/Bey at the 3:  Best 3 point shooter. Best 1v1 defender, more versatile defender. The contract. Decent drive and score game 1v1.

Why Griffin over Hunter/Bey at the 3:  Best potential 3 point shooter. Best team defender. Highest bbiq. Best handles.

 

Camp battle will be fun. We will see if DH has been working privately or not.

Agree with all your points except about Hunter being the best 3 point shooter over Griffin and Bey.  I think Griffin is clearly the better three point shooter, with Hunter and Bey being pretty close to each other.

Even though I'm a huge JJ stan, my hope is that Bey and Hunter start with JJ coming off the bench, so long as JJ gets 20+ mpg (preferably 25+ mpg).  I really really like him out there with the second unit with Trae/Bogi or DJ/Bogi as opposed to getting most of his minutes with the starters with Trae/DJ.  To really maximize his skillset, he needs the ball in his hands a decent amount, and I think that's much more likely to happen with the second unit as opposed to having the Trae/DJ duo dominate the ball.  Bey and Hunter aren't really playmakers, so they would probably fit in with the Trae/DJ duo better.

I'm sure wanting to find some more minutes for JJ probably had something to do with it, but I think the primary motivation was to create financial flexibility, both this year and in the future.  Creating the large trade exception, getting under the LT in order to get the full MLE, and not to mention avoiding the restrictions that you have to deal with when trying to trade while you're in the LT... I thought all of those were worthwhile benefits for us, especially early in the offseason, even if the actual "assets" we received in the trade were pretty lackluster.  But now we sit here in August with the bulk of the offseason over and done with, and we haven't really done anything with those benefits I spoke of.  The offseason isn't over, of course, and there's still some optimism that something could work out in September, but it would be hard to blame fans for yelling at Ressler for being "cheap" without any further moves to take advantage of those financial benefits we received in the JC trade.

Edit:  It probably wouldn't be fair to avoid mentioning that shedding JC's salary had a hand in allowing us to extend DJ this offseason.  Obviously that was a huge move for our future, although we still haven't really done anything with that financial flexibility to help us this year.

In 100% agreement with @AHF on this debate.  The whole purpose of the per36 stat is to normalize the minutes played so that you can make more of an apples-to-apples comparison when analyzing different players, which is exactly what AHF was using it for.  And of course ANY stat is near meaningless when there's not enough data to draw from.  In the DJ example mentioned above, the 322 minutes played his rookie year is simply not enough data to draw any conclusions from.  It makes much more sense to analyze the following 3 seasons when his total number of minutes played was much more significant.

And if you make the argument that a player's per36 numbers should go down with more minutes played due to fatigue, you could easily make the counter argument that they'll go UP due to the player having a chance to get "warm" and in a rhythm when they're on the court longer.  In the end, I suspect that those two relatively minor factors probably balance each other out and you're probably not gonna see a significant change in per36 stats when "minutes played" is the primary variable that changes.

25 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Today is the day.

If Bufkin is being moved, this will be the day...

I want to say that we're going to slow cook him and bring him up but really, there's no place for him to grow into .   Nobody wants to be drafted in the first round to be a BU. 

 

I would say developing into a solid rotational player is a good outcome for your average non-lottery first round pick.  I'm sure Bufkin himself would eventually like to become a starter, but I don't think it's necessarily the expectation of the front office, especially for the first 2-3 years.

58 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

The Outsiders..

Cast:

Spud:

 @kg01 :

 @JayBirdHawk: 

 @warcore : 

 @akay: 

 @theheroatl: 

The inside(h)ers:

 

Movie release is expected sometime in 2025, production will get under way in 2024.

Nice... uh... pixels! Jaybird!

2 hours ago, JustSomeGuy said:

 

Only one clip in there where JJ was the defender.  Wonder if that meant he got the stop in his other reps? 

I mean there is such a thing as growing organically, guys.  If we had a team full of veterans, then you could reasonably expect to get the same results by running it back with the same squad.  But you have to remember that we still have a very young group.  Outside of Bogi and Capela, every single one of our important players are 26 years old or younger.  I think it's fair to expect that most of those guys will improve just from the natural progression that comes with age and experience.  Now throw in a new coach who is known for his player developmental skills, and you have a recipe to accelerate that growth even quicker.  And it's not outside the realm of possibility that one of those young guys, whether it be OO, JJ, AJ, Hunter, Bey or whomever, to break out this year and become that third star that most fans are clamoring for.  I'm just saying it's not the end of the world if we do end up running it back, especially with this squad.  I would much, much, much rather Landry do that than end up accepting a bad deal.

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Man, you lurkin in the TPE-target thread?  That's a new low, insider. 

Jose Bartholomew Alvarado

Bring Jose home!!

I gotta ask... what in the world is a "dollybrook"?

I thought this was a good (short) read.  I believe it was @AHF or @thecampster who has been trying to stress the point of allowing RFA to work for us.  This is a good example of that very point.  Basically, the Lakers were able to keep Reaves at half price just because of the threat of being able to match an offer sheet.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/07/spurs-considered-lucrative-offer-sheet-for-austin-reaves.html

3 hours ago, kg01 said:

Nah, it will most likely be an indication that the same a** posters chime in with the same a** concerns literally every year and pretend it's some new a** sh*t.  

That's not aimed at you MH.  I'm just sick of the same ol', lame ol' posters posting negative a** sh*t and pretending they're actually paying attention even though we all know they're not.  They're just complainers.  The sh*t is tiresome. 

The Ignore button is a beautiful thing, kg.   Believe me, it makes the squawk a much more enjoyable experience.

7 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

See.. now you’re all gangbanging  up on me. I am not giving OO or AJ but want Siakam, that’s it. Jj is available 

Spud, give JJ a chance.  I think you're gonna really like what you see out of him this year.

4 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Found him.... this guy 

....apparently, we are ALL suffer from sheer delusionism. .

They have a player they seem to not have a clue what to do with...keep him and pay him? They also want to build around Barnes who plays the same position. 

All Hawks have to do it sit back...watch and wait.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2308629&start=1180

WuTang_OG, imma need you to go ahead and pick you out a switch so you can get this butt whoopin'

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

No. The September wait is for Bogi to be eligible to be traded in a potential deal to Minnesota. 

The Siakam situation is bizarre and a little sad. He really wants to stay there...on a supermax deal. The team does not want him there. HIs teammates want him gone so it will be "their" team (Barnes and OG) and his staying there squashes their shots and usage. 

So his camp has tried to sabotage his trade value. It has worked. Teams are not going to give up the farm or anywhere close to it for a pouting good but not great player who is demanding a supermax contract. Oh, and lest we forget reports from his camp leaked a month or so ago that he wouldn't resign with a team that traded for him. He's pulling a reverse Harden by literally forcing the Raptors to keep him because they can't afford to trade him for his actual limited value due to the reasons listed above. His defense, btw, has declined the last two seasons and he's going to hit 30 this upcoming season.

What front office in their right mind would give up a lot of value for this? Raps fans are in literal denial thinking they are going to get some kind of cornucopia of assets for him.  

Something to consider for all of us and all teams: remember back when the CBA was designed so only true superstar players got max deals? And under that came the almost but not max deals? With the second apron being a hard cap (and yes, it is a hard cap) we are back to that reality.

Teams can't afford to give out max/supermax deals to players that truly do not deserve it. Siakam is a top 30-40 player in the NBA. Is that supermax? In the old CBA, sure. In the current CBA? Naw, fam. He's not. Teams are now adjusting their financial commitment to players accordingly with the new CBA. There's a reason our guys like Capela, Hunter and Bogi are being asked about in trades. 

We all know how valuable rookie deal rotation players are. They are basically platinum value in the new CBA. Proven veterans that are making good but not great money? Yep, that's the new muscle car out there. We've got three of them. We just traded a fourth and had we not squandered his trade value we could have gotten more. 

So guys like Capela, Hunter, Bogi have far more trade value than Siakam as a result. They are good players locked into long term deals that also aren't "the face of franchise" guys or demand a lot of usage. They are more valuable by a considerable margin than Siakam.

Quite frankly I would pass on Siakam in the Hawks FO and go after KAT or simply wait (I know some of you don't want to hear this) to see if another trade presents itself. Our guys value is not going to go down. We really can afford to wait things out and let our young guys (OO, JJ, AJ, Kobe) prove themselves.

Preeeeeaaaccchhhh Soth!  I agree 100%

12 minutes ago, thecampster said:

The floated deal is CC, Hunter, 1st, Matthews.  There was a grade the trade the other day showing this with Dallas as the 3rd team and Javale McGee also coming our way.  I suspect that was publicly floated to gauged interest to all 3 fanbases.

Found it:  https://soaringdownsouth.com/2023/07/18/atlanta-hawks-grade-trade-pascal-siakam-3-team/

Even better!  I would definitely be down for that.

7 minutes ago, pro9wu said:

Any offices open in the JJ fan club? I want to join!

Hawks, Braves, Falcons, and GT fan since 1988?  Are you sure you're not me??

27 minutes ago, Diesel said:

The timing of it all and the need tells me it may be:

CC, Hunter, 1st, Bufkin.  with a third team involved. 

...Diesel... The outsider

Yeah, this is the type of final offer I would make for Siakam.  I feel like this is very fair for both parties.

14 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Definitely a safe receipt.  No one is going to pull this out if all these guys never really develop into anything more than decent bench players.  Chances at consolidating them won't be as top of mind as if we trade them and they flourish, because we would never know the heights we could have reached if we did trade them for Siakam or whoever else.

Being optimistic about young prospects is normal, but it doesn't change the fact they don't pan out into anything.  Imagine how upset Hawks fans would have been if we traded Cam+Hunter+salary and a first for a known all-star like 2-3 years ago.  Two promising young players and a pick for an all-star -- my guess is more than half of us would have been really upset and called it an overpay, citing potential, salary differential, etc.  And I think that would have been a mistake based on what we knew at the time, even if we might have been better off for it given what we know now.  Hind sighting is fool proof and easy... I try to judge GMs on how well they assess risks and probability which can only really be evaluated over a long period, not an individual move.

I totally get what you're saying.  It's kind of like Peter Griffin choosing between a boat and the mystery box...

HOWEVER, one distinction that I would make is that JJ, AJ, and OO are all ready to contribute RIGHT NOW.  At this time last year, I would've been willing to include JJ and AJ (although probably not OO), because they hadn't shown me that they were NBA ready yet.  However, I feel like all three of those guys are ready to be valuable contributors of a team competing for the championship.  And you need guys like that on cheap contracts to pair with your expensive stars.  IF we were going after a stud, I would be much more willing to part with any of those guys.  However, Siakam ain't at that level to me.  He's a fine player, for sure, but on a max or near-max contract, he will at best be market value.  To part with high value young guys who are ready to contribute right away, I'm gonna need a star that is gonna be a good value on a max contract... not a second or third tier star like Siakam.  With that said, Siakam is certainly an upgrade for this team, and I would be willing to part with any reasonable package that doesn't include Trae, DJ, OO, AJ or JJ.  If that's not enough to get it done, then I would just move on.

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Respectfully, I disagree with just about all this.  JJ is our wildcard on both ends.  The fact that iRobot didn't want to play him is criminally negligent.  The warts you're seeing are related to the missed development time under the prior coach.

He's basically an ultra-athletic version of Slomo Anderson, which doesn't sound like high praise but it definitely is. 

Well, I think hero is right in that JJ does need to improve his three point shooting.  I am optimistic that he'll at least become a 35%+ guy, although he might never get to the 40% levels.  But the great thing about JJ is that he can positively impact the game in so many different ways, even if his shot isn't falling.  The incredibly annoying thing with Dre to me is that he flat out disappears far too often.  If his shot isn't falling, he's about worthless on the offensive end of the floor.

7 minutes ago, warcore said:

No - JJ is a lot more fluid, has handles, and fantastic vision. Dre is doo doo in the handles and vision part. I see them as very different players. I think his vision is the biggest reason we need to keep him. He's our only front court option to play make. 

Beat me to it, lol.