Kolb Not on the Braves Post Season Roster???????

[Hawkzzz21]

What?

Maybe you guys should stick to basketball. I just now picked up my Baseball America Magazine that was published back in the spring. Right before the season starts, and it clearly states that Kolb is the closer for the Atlanta Braves. They will be many questions this year for the Braves Bullpen, but closer won't be one of them, after John Schuerholtz contines to add nice pieces to the Atlanta Braves Team.

And you guys thought Kolb wouldn't be there. NONSENSE!

What's this? Davies or Thompson? Of coarse it's Thompson, after all Scheurholtz signed him. Just another great piece he has added.

Oh.....Hollandsworth won't be there possibly? No way....he's gonna be there, after all Schuerholtz signed him.

It's easy to add pieces, when you have all the money in the world (Ted Turner's). What about when it comes down to pure GM Talent.

I think it's great that the Braves are in another post season. I admit, I have counted them out the last 3 years in a row, and good chance I might count them out next year as well. It's great that the credit is being given to the young guys. I think they deserve it. But.....and I mean BUT WHY ISN'T ANYONE CALLING FOR THE HEAD OF SCHEURHOLTZ? Is it because what he's done in the past is good for a bad year? Or do you judge in the Janet Jackson way "What have you done for me lately?".

It's been no secret that our bullpen is weak. From day 1 all the way to the end. Not going out and bringing in quality relief pitching was a HUGE BLUNDER! Brower was cut, so he was a freebie. No credit given there. While Holandsworth was relatively free, given up 2 minor league pitchers, it just didn't make any sense.

When Julio starts, you have LaRoche and Orr off the bench for left handed AB's. If LaRoche starts, you are limited to the lefties off the bench, but is that a bigger deal than relief pitching? I figure relief pitching equals at least 3 innings of a game. That's 9 outs. One left handed bat that will pinch hit, equals 1 out. I see a 9 to 1 difference in that area.

Hopefully our starters can go deep. If bullpen is needed, then the Braves chances of a decade repeat is unlikely (95'/05').

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BRAVES!!!

[AHF]

This is possibly the dumbest Braves post I have ever seen. It is wrong on so many levels.

(1) Why fire the best GM in baseball? He makes mistakes but show me a GM who doesn't. I'll tell you how many GMs in the history of US professional sports have kept a team stocked with enough talent to put together a run like the Braves. One. I'll let you guess who that person is. I don't understand how any fan who has followed the Braves since the 1980s could possibly want to get rid of such an amazing GM.

(2) The Braves don't just buy players anymore. They have the 10th highest payroll in the league and will be in the BOTTOM half of the playoff teams if Cleveland or Houston fail to qualify.

(3) Kolb was a bust. Get over it. He was an all-star the previous season and was expected to provide a cheap option at closer. If the Braves had unlimited payroll they would have gone for a more proven option. He busted, it was a mistake and the Braves recovered nicely by getting Farnsworth who has been great.

(4) The pure GM talent on the Braves is clearly visible on this year's roster. Check out the amount of turnover from last season. Check out the fruits of the farm system. That is GM talent. The Braves do not have unlimited funds. They haven't spent Ted Turner's money in years. Even in their own division, the Braves outplayed both the Mets and Phillies who spent a combined $24,000,000 more than the Braves.

(5) The bullpen is a problem. If the Braves had unlimited funds they would have a great bullpen but they don't. The Braves did the same thing in previous years trying to cobble together a bullpen out of retreads and rookies. Some years it works better than others. I hope the Braves can overcome it this year.

[Hawkzzz21]

This has to be the dumbest reply I have ever seen.

Wow! Talk about your homerism.

I never said fire the guy. I was simply pointing out something. When teams win, the little things go unnoticed. When they lose, they get magnified.

As far as the young guys. The GM does pull the trigger and drats them. However, it's nothing to do with his scouting skills. He is simply the computer, and sorts out all the scouting reports.

As a die hard Braves Fan, the last few years have killed me. I did get use to adding a new superstar every year. The Time Warner AOL Group is operating the team as a business, and trying to profit from them. I thought this year was the worse.

Yes, we now can stand up and cheer, cause we kept the streak going. We were really lucky too though. It sucked this year, knowing that we didn't add any key pieces to this team at the trading deadline. With all the injuries, and the Nationals having the 2nd lowest scoring in baseball, was running away with this league. I thought the Braves should have paniced, and pulled out all the stops.

Traded some of these young guys for established players.

All in all, my post was more of a joke, and just pointing out some of Schuerholtz Flaws.

As for them Braves in the 80's. I do miss Skip and the gang, and the way they use to call it as they saw it. Back in the ol days, they didn't hold back. Now they constantly take up for Bobby Cox and the Gang. 13 Divisional titles is great, and should be celebrated. It should be dually noted that in those 13 titles, only 1 World Series Title.

[CBAreject]

You said we should be asking for the head of Scheurholz. That's equivalent to firing him, in my book. That was an incredibly dumb post.

[CBAreject]

AGREED. This post is so freakin stupid.

I admit I have been reluctant to give JS credit for the teams he has built. I criticized him for trying to replace Glavine with Ortiz. I criticized him for trying to replace Maddux with Thomson. I blasted him for trading Millwood for what almost nothing. I was FURIOUS that we gave Cleveland Justice (who went on to have his best season) and Grissom for one year of a malcontent Kenny Lofton. My blood BOILED when we traded Klesko and Boone for two players who did jack (Sanders and Veras). The list goes on (Dye for Tucker, e.g.)

Here's the thing though....JS has continued to assemble winning teams despite continuing payroll cuts. EVERY ONE of those deals above was made because of MONEY (except for Klesko). He has made his mistakes, but what GM hasn't? What GM hasn't been saddled with a crippling contract for some horrible pitcher?

The Kolb deal hasn't worked, but how many deals have truly been busts? I would say the Klesko deal is the only one I can think of that really was a clunker for us. You could say the Justice deal (he was a team leader and a fan favorite). Who woulda thought Kolb would be as bad as he is?

I thought the deal to get Farnsworth has been nothing short of amazing. I think JS could've gone out to get a guy like Guardado, but AOL wouldn't let him spend the money. He managed to get about the best guy available without giving up any key pieces. HATS OFF TO THAT! Sure, we still need bullpen help, but we are so much better off with that one man to pitch the 9th.

[chillzatl]

I don't expect them to operate like the Mets or Yankmees do. THey've proven, for years now, that if you invest money into your farm system, you can get the things you need to make you better without having to spend 15m per season on a free agent. We drafted smart, developed them well and we have a ton of talent to either continue using or trade.

Francour, Laroach, Mccann. I'd rather win our division while techincally rebuilding than sign away young talent for old players, who still offer no guarantees, any day. We gave up a lot for Sheffield and Drew, what did it get us? It got us no further thanthe rookies did this year. Look at the yankees. Sure they have this powerful lineup of OLD lions. But their farm system is wrecked. We were heading in that direction several years ago but fortunately it wasn't a long term thing.

Quote:

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It should be dually noted that in those 13 titles, only 1 World Series Title.

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I think it's chickenshit to try and turn it around like it's something less than what it is becuase we only won one championship. You can't build a team that is guaranteed to win you a championship. All you can do is go on the field with the players you have and try to win and you can't win it all without first winning your division. Every team in baseball not named the Yankees would sell their souls to do what we've done.

[Hawkzzz21]

LOL.......wow, I guess more than 1 missed the point. Oh well, I'll play along. (just for the record, you are arguing with a Braves Fan, and not an outsider)

All comments so far, are ones that you and many other Braves Fans have said in the past. I don't give no credit, where it's not due.

My gripes with the GM or similar to the ones for Cox. So much credit is given to Bobby Cox, and it's not deserved. Yes, he deserves a lot of credit. No, I can't think of any other manager currently in baseball that I would rather have. None the less he has his flaws.

1) Letting guys get away with no hustling. That has always been a soar point for me. Some say Cox can't control the hustle plays. I disagree. Making a guy ride the pine can send a strong message. I have seen him sit a guy maybe once or twice over the last 14 years, for dumb plays. Never a star player though.

2) Cox is a great manager for the regular season. Paces the team well, gets the bench guys involved, and their ready when they have to play. The problem is, he coaches the same way in the post season. He doesn't understand the concept of win every game. Use all your bullets. This should apply in the regular season, but it has to be applied in the post season.

3) JS gets all the credit for the good things he does. It never gets mentioned what he doesn't do, or his mistakes. Since it don't get mention, I thought I would mention it. Reasoning for my post.

I don't say things that are nonsense to type. Like Chillz comment:

"You can't build a team that is guaranteed to win you a championship. All you can do is go on the field with the players you have and try to win and you can't win it all without first winning your division.

What's the point in even typing this? It's like I said, you have to start a season with a team that is guaranteed to win a Championship.

I don't post things that are in the main flow. I can type a lot of great things about the Braves. The reason I don't, is because so many others cover it well. I might add a thing or two that might get forgotten.

Chillz don't kid yourself. The Braves being in postseason 13 times, and comming away with 1 Title is disappointing. It doesn't matter what other teams do, or would want to have our spot. It's the same as being in a normal league, and you have about 10 teams. In a ten team league, and you win 1 title over a 13 year period, is nothing.

The Bills are everyone's favorite joke. They lost the Super Bowl 3 or 4 straight years. I never hear anyone outside of Buffalo, saying they would trade places with them, or hey they finished 2nd!

There is only one winner. We know that. What seems to be missing, is there are about 30 losers. Whether you finish 2nd or last, it's still not the title.

CBA.......you might wanna recheck your book. I never said I was calling for his head. I asked the question, "why isn't anyone calling for it?".

Chillz your right, I'm sure all other teams outside of the Yanks would trade places with us. However, would you trade places with the Yanks, over the last 14 years?

But hey.....were heading into post season now. If we win it all this year, then our ratio goes to 1 title every 7 years. That sounds a lot better, than 1 title in 14 years. If we can string together a few titles, say 3 in the next 5 years, and keep our division streak in tact, then I love our place in history a lot better.

[CBAreject]

CBA.......you might wanna recheck your book. I never said I was calling for his head. I asked the question, "why isn't anyone calling for it?".

By saying 'why isn't anyone calling for it?', you are implying that calling for his head is the sensible thing to do. That's virtually the same thing, and you know it. Stop playing word games here. Your arguments are weak and ill-founded. I can mount an argument against JS that you cannot hold a candle to, as I demonstrated in the last post. I don't do it because he has done some very special things in Atlanta that I don't think other GM's could have done.

[Hawkzzz21]

Ok fair enough.

I have to quit this anyways. I have a fantasy league in baseball. I am the commish there. It's called the Peach State .vs. the Big Apple League. It has Braves and Yanks Fans only. Well....6 Braves Fans, 5 Yanks Fans, and 1 team were not so sure about.

I have to go there and make them believe that the Braves are the greatest thing since sliced bread. Then have to jump back over here and say how the Braves are the worse team in baseball......lol.

OK, as for the word games. You interperted it wrong, so I had to correct you on it. I'm asking the question, instead of trying to form a posey on this. I just wanted to point out where I stood.

Not on this board, but the Braves Message Board gets old every year. Everyone is happy entering post season, then get ill when we lose. The blame game comes out every year, once we get knocked out in post season.

I don't believe in that. I go against the grain. Not intentionally, but it's just much nicer seeing things said, when they don't have to be said.

For instance.......Republics and Democrats. When one is on TV saying something bad about the other. It holds no water with me. Even if I agree with what they say, it's hard for their version of things to withstand, cause I know they are talking about the enemy. Now if one party is talking bad about a member in their own party, then it does carry weight.

I was just uspet this year that the Braves didn't make a stand. Our division streak was on the line, and it was going to end, with no true effort to save it. Since we did keep the streak going, I think my argument should hold more weight. If it would have ended, and I came on here posting things of this nature, then it just makes me look like someone that is crying over spilled milk. We hadn't spilled the milk yet, and I would hope in the future, the Braves as an organization would show more support for the streak.

I just hear a lot of Braves Fans calling this a dynasty. I just don't see it. I can't think of one team in any sport, that I call a dynasty, that hasn't won championships.

The Buffalo Bills was a dynasty? Just sounds too weak. If the Braves are a dynasty, then no doubt the Portland TrailBlazers are one too. Their impressive playoff streak has just ended, and no one is really giving them a lot of credit for their dynasty.

You can't say, what the Braves did was harder then what Portland has done. When you start to go that route, you have to then say, that Championships is harder to do what the Braves done. It becomes a question of "How many division titles equal a championship?". That's a hard one to answer, and no really true answer is there.

OK......I'm outta here! Thanks for the input all. I'm sure we will be talking about this next year, as we wait for basketball tos start again.

Just for the record: I see the Hawks winning 49 games this year! I keep trying to scratch that magical 50th game, and I just can't find it. The 2005/2006 Hawks are going to really come close to that 50th Mark!

[CBAreject]

1) I never said the Braves were a dynasty, but I do think that one could say that and not be entirely wrong.

2) Portland is clearly not a dynasty. Making the playoffs in the NBA is hardly the same as making it in the MLB or winning the DIVISION every year in the MLB. 16 teams make the playoffs in the NBA....isn't that more than half?????

MORE THAN HALF???? Woo hoo! we're in the top half of the league for several years in a row! We're a dynasty.

Again, weak, ill-founded arguments.

[Hawkzzz21]

Woooo HOooooo! Were in the top 1/3 of our league every year!

[CBAreject]

1/3? winning the division is top 1/3?

Braves are generally one of the top 2 records in the NL. They have had the best record in the NL multiple times. Top record baseball more than once.

Do you think before you talk?

[Hawkzzz21]

Yes I do. The question is do you?

"1) I never said the Braves were a dynasty"

HMMMMMM........ I never said you did, or did anyone else.

"2) Portland is clearly not a dynasty."

Oh really. I guess you didn't get my warning to not go down this road. I even warned you not to, and you still did.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRR.....WHY YOU DOING THIS TO ME? I wanted to stop, but I guess you want let me. Ok, let's disect this thing. Now that you have put it in in writing, as calling the Braves a dynasty, I can use it to support the overall argument here.

WAIT!....I have to get this correct. You didn't actually say the Braves was a dynasty, but could see people saying it, and not entirely be wrong.

However.....Portland is clearly not a dynasty? Now I have it, right?

OK, so your saying that it's ok for people to consider the Braves a dynasty, but in no way can Portland. You even go on to make fun of someone, that might consider Portland a dynasty.

Ok, the basis for this argument is that it is harder to win division titles in baseball, than oppose to just making the playoffs in basketball. However, you have to factor in the rest of the equasions. Salary cap perhaps (a more level playing field), 21 .vs. 14 (the number of year the feat was done). Yes, it may be harder to win a baseball division, but going 1/3 longer than the Braves so far, can't be overlooked eiher.

Yet....you don't want to give Portland any credit, and will support the Braves People hollering dynasty?

Now, the way you look at Portland is the same way the Yankees look at us. We have 14 division titles going, they just won their 7th or 8th in a row. We have one title, as opposed to the Yankees 4. We actually played them in the World Series, and they beat us. Not once, but twice! I think in 10 World Series Games with them, they beat us in 8 of them.

WARNING: Don't get the Yankees Payroll involved. It isn't like we haven't had the clear advantage too with most of our opponents.

Saying the Braves is a dynasty (just in general, not referring to you as saying this), you have to include the Yankees too.

Now you sorta have a problem. Two teams, both having dynasties in the same time frame? I really can't think of any good double dyansty teams. Celtics and the Lakers is probably as close as I can come to thinking of one. They may be some, but only one that jars my memory. They had each had two great players, that battle for the duration. There streak began at the beginning of the 80's decade, and practically wrapped up close to the end of the decade. They both were champions, and actually having the opportunity to play against one another multiple times, and beating each other.

If I'm the dynasty fairy, and was handing them out. Then you might have hurt the Braves Chances. Since you give absolutely no credit to Portland, I would reserve handing the Braves Dynasty until they won it 21 times.

Now let's look at the streak. Is it really a streak? I see our streak as tainted, and here's why:

1) Salary. Not the Braves fault. However, you can't deny that we have started many seasons, where a lot of teams had no way of matching or exceeding our salary cap. Salary doesn't necessarily equal more wins. You can give several examples both ways where salary has got wins, and where they have not. So having the uneven playing field in baseball, is a black eye. Scary part is the Yanks do have a streak going, and a 200 million dollar team. If baseball doesn't fix this problem, only the Red Sox can dethrone them. So as it stands now, the Yanks really have a 50/50 shot at winning their division every year.

2) Why has it took us 15 years, to win 14 straight division titles? Oh, that's right. The strike year. Montreal Expos did have a comfortable lead that year at the All Star Break. Yes, I know.....we had came back in the past. Comming back against the Dodgers and Giants, was two great seasons. Who's to say what would have happen this year. However, if you had to give a title out, wouldn't the Expos get it? I mean, you can't really say something as simple as "Well the Expos had a 2 game lead, and played 2 more games than us. If we had just won our next 2 games we would have been tied with them". Their lead was much bigger than that. Baseball didn't hand out a division title that year, but as fans, can't we?

Well......no we really can't, cause we wouldn't have got it. This is part of the Skip Caray Brain Washing Tactics, that I like to refer to often. The 94' Year hardly gets mentioned. If the Braves had the lead that year. You can bet that we would be celebrating 14 and a half years. Heck, some might even go ahead and say really 15. Every time the Braves have won a division title, that year would be getting brought up. If we would of had the lead.

3) The streak has a World Series Title in it? Yes, we won it that year. We didn't necessarily blow anyone away. After all, it took us 6 games, and that 6th game was won 1 to 0. So, saying we won the World Series, could actually be overstating it. Saying we "sneaked" one in, might fit it, like saying I could see how people can refer to the Braves as a dynasty.

See, as impressive as the steak is, when you really look at it more closely, it's not as impressive as one might think. I mean it's up to you on your standards. Mine are very high. I think it's fair to say, that any fan would rather have Championships over titles. Since winning the championship is the ultimate prize, then it's what I want to strive for. Heck, just winning one now days isn't that great. They do hand them things out yearly. A dynasty needs to be something we might recognize 100 years from now. There's still debate on the Patriots being a dynasty. Time will tell.

Last Tuesday Night was soooooooooooo great. That whole evening watching the Braves clinch another title was great. The one thing that stuck out that night was what John Smoltz said.

I can't exactly quote him, but let me paraphrase:

"this is great, it's great to win another divisional title, a lot of people doubted us, I wish I could have all the sports shows, and the call in talk radio shows played back right now, for all those that thought we couldn't do it"

See, having the high standards that I do. I really hated to hear Smoltz gloat like this. He's been here for the whole duration on the streak (so yes, it does give him the right to say whatever the freak he wants to) (but because you have the right, doesn't make what you say is right). He seemed like someone that was pointing the finger, and saying "I told you so".

1) he even admits hisself, he had his doubts comming out of spring trainning that the Braves couldn't do it. (so he can point the fingers at others, while admitting this?) Even one other Brave's Player said that night, that they could see the concern on Smoltz's Face this year

2) I heard a lot of the call in talk shows, and sports shows he is referring too. Yes, a lot thought the Braves Streak would end. However, there was just as many saying the Braves would win the streak, but wouldn't win it all in post season.

That's what bothered me about his comments. It's like he's already celebrating, and the job isn't finished yet. I did hear other Braves Players say it, but Smoltz never really mentioned that the Braves were going to take it all the way this year. He didn't even give the politcally correct statement, that usually goes something like this:

Yes, it's great to have done this. However, our work isn't finished yet. We believe we got a lot more baseball to play, and the celebration won't be complete until we win that 4th game in the World Series.

I think Smoltz and the Braves Fans in general, have learn to accept 2nd best. Celebrating something, that is not the most celebrated thing.

I mentioned Skip Caray's Brain Washing Tactics. I watch a ton of Braves Games every year. I feel like I know how Skip reacts to 90 percent of the things that happen in baseball.

He did start a new brain washing tactic this year. It's the 162 games, really give you the true champions of all the divisions. He's right. It does. However, he kinda always would take a slight jab at the playoff system. It's clear, he was giving the out most respect to the Braves Streak, and giving an excuse for post season flaws.

I mean for pete sakes, look at the Florida Marlins. They wouldn't even in baseball when we started our streak. They have won 2 World Series since our World Series Win. Talk about sneaking one in. That 97 World Series was the best one ever. They did sneak that one in, but did beat the same team we beat in 95'. They have even beat the Yankees in a World Series.

If your a fan of any team, you have the right to give them any props you want. I don't argue that.

Heck, in my late teens and early 20's, Dominique Wilkins was better than Michael Jordan. No one could tell me any differently. It wasn't until the first MJ Retirement, did I accept that. I had a chance then to see what he had really done, and it was clear then, he was the better player.

If I came on here, and said that LaBron and AI don't have to pick up another basketball, they have already out shinned Michael Jordan. I wouldn't even get any replies. If I did, they would all be in fun, and in the joking manner. I would never make you guys believe I was serious.

Why is that? Cause Jordan doesn't need no one to plead his case. I think what he has done speaks for itself. Same way with Barry Bonds. I don't have to represent Bonds. Whether steroids helped him or not, you'll never convince me that it made that much of a difference.

The fact, that the Braves Conversations come up every year, and in basically the same fashion, leaves me thinking. What have they really accomplished? Why so many different views on them?

I have just learned, that there's no need to sugar coat things anymore. Accept things for what they are. Have your own oppinion. Because someone has a different one, doesn't make yours or theirs wrong.

Through my examination of Georgia Sports, and Research, here are some more of my non popular views. I strike up debates on all of these, that residents of Georgia love to agrue with me.

1) Mike Vick is not a top 5 quarterback in NFL. Yes, he has the potential to be the best, but hasn't even broke the top 5 in my "book". 5 years ago I could have started a poll on the Falcons Board, "What is the most important stat for a QB?"...they would have said things like QB Rating, Yards completed, completion percentage. These days, they won't even answer that question. Right away, they accuse you of being a Vick Basher. Then some will say, most important stat, well there really isn't one, it's a guy that can lead his team, and the team "wins", is the most important stat.

Hey, whatever it takes to make your superstar or team to fit the mold, huh? It isn't like saying Vick isn't one of the top QB's is gonna hurt the Falcons. It's gonna be the same way for Marv. However, I expect different things from him than most.

2) Willie Mayes was better than Hank Aaron. I never seen anyone of these guys play. I have heard that there has been a long debate going on, on who was actually the best. I assume Hank was, afterall he is the homerrun king. However, when I went back and looked at the stats. I have to give the nod to Mayes. Very close race, it's just that Aaron took longer to get his stats, not much, but longer.

3) Josh Smith should have not won the slam dunk contest this past year............yeah right......Just Kidding....he ruled!!! However, if I had to rank the top 3 dunking perfomances ever. I do give Vince top honors, Josh 2nd, then Nique 3rd. I wouldn't waste my time arguing someone from Chicago that Nique was better than Jordan. I think Jordan was close enough, that if I lived in Chicago I would give Jordan the edge over Nique. I really , really think Nique was better than Jordan. Since I live here, I can't say for sure if I'm right. Fingers crossed for a Vince/Josh showdown this year. He might overtake Vince with another performance similar to the one he had.

OK....my poor fingers are wore out now. Thanks CBA.....I owe ya one.....lol. But hey, I won't rain on your parade anymore. By all means......march on! All in all though, I would like to ask one question. Why even talk to me, since you think I'm so far off? You have the main stream opinnion here. You really didn't bring anything new to the table. Did I? I'm sure I did. I usually catch a lot of peeps off guard, when they know that's not the way they are saying it on TV.

No need for me to post a few paragraphs on Josh Smith and his dunking abilites. You guys know the deal! What ya'll don't know, is that Marvin Williams isn't going to be in the rotation. I keep seeing Marv as in the top 8 on the team. I hope I'm wrong, and the Utah Play was not a true test.

He was injured, and might of been protecting the hammy a bit. He would have been real lucky to win a top 8 position on that team. When he comes to Atlanta, and figuring the all around upgrade in talent, from his teammates to the opponents. I can't see him getting solid minutes in the first 20 games or so. Not that he's a waste, and never should of been drafted. However, many here like to use the phrase "he's not played in one game yet, and your already.......". I disagree, I think he has played a game already. In fact, about 3 full games, and a couple that was cut short due to injury. His preseason games, I will notch up too. He might not be givning 100 percent in these games, but you can definately get the feel of what to expect.

If you make the argument that you can't judge summer and preseason. UH OH! And you say you can't count it, until the games count for real. UH OH! LOL ......just teasing. I will give him comeback player of the year, if he does work into the Hawks 8 man rotation. Has a rookie ever won that?

I'm gone........Good Night!

[CBAreject]

I refuse to read all of this, but I'll comment on what I got through.

"Yet....you don't want to give Portland any credit, and will support the Braves People hollering dynasty?"

Wrong on both counts (as usual). I wouldn't say the Braves are a dynasty. When did I say I wouldn't give Portland "any credit"? Quit setting up a straw man to argue with.

"1) I never said the Braves were a dynasty"

HMMMMMM........ I never said you did, or did anyone else.

No, but in rebuttal to one of my posts, you said "The Braves are not a dynasty" or some crap like that. If you're going to say something like that in an argument, I have to assume that you are using that as an argument against my points. In fact, you were....as such, it seems that you have assumed that I would call the Braves a dynasty. Either way, you are setting up a straw man to argue with. I never said the Braves were a dynasty, but that was the point you wanted to argue.

There are 2 ways to recognize an idiot by his arguments:

1) he doesn't realize the key issue and argues peripheral points

2) he disregards your points and chooses to rail at a straw man

[Hawkzzz21]

You interpeted my words wrong. I thought I had yours on the money.

Not only did you say Portland was clearly not a dynasty, you went on to mock someone in fun, like they would be bragging they were in the top half of their league.

I did say you gave Portland no credit. Reason being, cause I didn't see you given them any. However, (unlike you) I recgonize that you are the author, and won't debate your own words.

After you misinterperted my words. I came on here, to just let ya know, exactly what I meant. Yet, you wanted to argue that.

It's like me saying Josh Smith has wore the number 6 Jersey like no one else on the Hawks. You would come on here and say, "no Josh Smith is #5". I would come back and say, "yes, I meant #5 and no other Hawks Player has struted that number as well". Instead of comming back and arguing another #5 Hawks Player being better, you would insist on saying "no, you said #6".

I see me asking the question "why isn't anyone asking for John Scheruholtz's head", how you misunderstood it. After I try to explain exactly what I meant, you insisted telling me I was wrong. LOL.........too funny.

Nice chatting with ya.....take care!

[Hawkzzz21]

Oh yeah......on your 2 ways to determine an "idiot".

"2) he disregards your points "

Your first line to the last post was "I refuse to read all of this"

NUFF SAID

[AHF]

Hawkzzzzz

When you write:

Quote:

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But.....and I mean BUT WHY ISN'T ANYONE CALLING FOR THE HEAD OF SCHEURHOLTZ? Is it because what he's done in the past is good for a bad year? Or do you judge in the Janet Jackson way "What have you done for me lately?"

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That implies that you want him gone. The reason no one is calling for his head is obvious. The man doesn't deserve to be fired. You clearly implied that he should be fired by asking why no one was calling for his head in all caps. You can spin this any way you like (and already have done so) but it is not a matter of everyone else on this cite misinterpreting your clear and concise language. It is a matter of you writing something asinine like suggesting he be fired when you meant to simply ask why no one criticized him. On the last point, many Braves fans have criticized him on many occassions. I have. I have been right sometimes and wrong others (like with the Millwood trade). What is clear is that he is the best GM in the game.

(As an aside, no one in the history of sports has won 14 division titles in a row in any sport. That is what makes it different than Portland or other teams who simply made the playoffs over an extended period of time. Of course, that is still not on par with the great runs of teams like Canadiens, Yankees, Celtics, etc. in their prime).