My take on the Wizards game.

[Spiral]

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Marvin will be a BUST FOR THE HAWKS if He is not head and shoulders better than Deron, Paul, and Smoove.

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I don't see how you can make a statement like that. Using that kind of logic, that would mean that AI, Camby, SAR, Marbury, Ray Allen and Antoine Walker are all busts because to this point, Kobe Bryant (who was drafted in the same class, but later than all of them) has out-performed them all.

[Seano]

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What the Hawks fans expect is for you to eat the food because you're in the resturant. Well, I can't just smile and eat the meal when I don't like what's being served.. NO thank you.

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LOL. Dude, you are so ego-ridden. Do you ever step outside yourself and take a look? Do you really believe and take seriously all the nonsense that you spout? Do you ever think to yourself, "Man am I a windbag".

I believe that you have a sense of humor, and thus find it hard to believe that you really take yourself all that seriously- but maybe I'm wrong and maybe you do.

In that case, man....get a grip.

[Diesel]

So am I supposed to All the sudden Like Marvin because he's a Hawk?

You guys are like Wrestling.. YOu conjure up good guys and bad guys.

Like Diaw. YOu guys hate Diaw. I'm happy that Diaw found his niche. I realize he would have never found it here.

SAR was one of my favorite players before he was a hawk, while he was a Hawk, and even now.

I never liked JR Rider or Jim Jackson.. Still Don't.

I can't just change how I feel about a player because he puts on a certain Jersey. If you want me to change... PLAY better.

Marvin is doing nothing worthy of my praise or to make me think that he was worth the pick.

The last thing is this... So many of you hate Chris Paul. Why? He's probably the best Rookie player to come out in a while.. Him and Lebron are definitely neck to neck... Does the Wrestling fans of Hawksqauwk say..> Hate Paul because we were stupid and passed over him and LOVE Marvin because he's wearing a Hawks Jersey?? Please.

Here's my question to you.

If B. Scott lost his mind and said, we love Speedy Claxton and we need a Sf... We would trade Chris Paul for Marvin..

Would you do it?

Would you say NO?

Would your loyalty to Marvin make it not doable?

Would you hate Paul too much?

Would you think that Marvin is better or would be better than Paul sometime in his career so you decide to keep Marvin?

When you are honest with your answer... Then you can understand where I'm coming from. I don't feel the need to make up unicorns and dragons... I work with what's there.

[Seano]

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You guys are like Wrestling.. YOu conjure up good guys and bad guys.

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Who's "You guys"? I'm me, I'm Sean, I hold my own opinions. I'm not part of some monolithic "them".

Do you always see the world in such black and white terms?

[rascurrein]

Diesel COME ON!!!!!!

You started this post with an analize of the game against wizards and you end this talking about trade proposals. I thought you were better than this.

Diesel = no arguments

[exodus]

And Diesel always avoids the main issue. He has been going on and on about how much the Hawks need Harrington's offense, which is a bunch of nonsense.

The Hawks scored 100 ppg last April when he wasn't playing.

They went on a huge run against Chicago with Al on the bench.

They were 10 pts better against Charlotte with Al on the bench.

They scored 25 pts in 6 minutes with Al on the bench.

He continually makes up excuses to try to explain away this obvious pattern. I guess he must be running out of excuses because he still hasn't explained how the Hawks scored 25 points in 6 minutes without Al.

As he always does when he gets punk'd in an argument, he just tries to ignore it and hopes it goes away.

[Seano]

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As he always does when he gets punk'd in an argument, he just tries to ignore it and hopes it goes away.

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Well you're just as bad, and you're just as ego-ridden as he is.

I have a feeling that if we could lock away the two of you together in a room for all eternity, you'd still be arguing the same old stuff, neither listening to what the other had to say, until the end of days.

[Diesel]

I see the world as it is.

There are a whole lot of people who are just drones. They go from day to day with no original thought in their brains.. They need other people to think for them. They see things in the context of Good and bad and that's how they are led around.. Led by the nose by some overexaggeration of what's good and what's bad.

That seeps onto Hawksquawk.

Everybody wants somebody to believe their perception of truth and they villify to try to gain support. Diesel has never needed a crowd to be right... Notice that.

What I said about the food in the restaraunt is how I feel many here are...

"Oh.. Well, I disagree with the pick.. but Marvin is a Hawk now, you might as well support him."

To me... that's more of that same BS. Being led around by the thought that just because he wears the Jersey, he's automatically a good guy worthy of the pick...

When the truth is that our GM has made mistakes before and this is probably the biggest mistake he's made to date.

In the same breath..

How many times have I heard people talk about Chris Paul's defense or whatever they like to use... However, I watch the games and Paul is dominating every aspect.. Just like he has on every level. I watch the game and Marvin is on the bench... giving up his spot.. Just like he's has done on every level.

So, I'm supposed to love Marvin and hate Paul?? come on now..> Those same people with the exception of KB will jump at the chance to trade Marvin for Paul.

As far as your individuality.. How are you Sean? I'm glad to see that there's somebody not looking for the crowd mentality or the crowd approval to know what is true... That is of course if you are an individual. If you're not, then you probably won't understand a word I'm saying.

[exodus]

Just try and think about how many times Diesel has been right about something. doesn't happen often.

Yet he still comes across as if he is some kind of basketball expert, when in fact he knows less than most of the people here.

That makes him and easy target for me. He just invites abuse.

[Seano]

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I see the world as it is.

There are a whole lot of people who are just drones. They go from day to day with no original thought in their brains.. They need other people to think for them. They see things in the context of Good and bad and that's how they are led around.. Led by the nose by some overexaggeration of what's good and what's bad.

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Ok, so you see yourself as being somehow superior- with much of humanity just being drones unable to think for themselves? But you have the capacity to see beyond that, right?

Is that really how you see the world?

[Diesel]

No mono.. It's not about a trade proposal.. It's about perception.

Also. I started out with MY TAKE on the Washington/Hawks game...

I felt we loss because our offense failed for 10 minutes in the first and second qtr. I believe that was my first sentence...

I knew that there would be people running to talk about the run and what could have been ... but again.. We made a run against a mixed team of subs and starters. Blatche was out there for developmental purposes. Thomas was out there giving Heyward a rest. I don't know exactly what happened to Jeffries. But when their starters (all of them) came back in the game, it was lights out. That was the bottom line of the game. Hawks fans talk about we did this and we did that.

First off, I don't think any team in the league prepares for another teams second team. So the fact that our second team did well against thier mixed team is not surprising. They probably have absolutely no scouting report on Batista or Marvin. The game was lost when our regulars couldn't score. Bottom line. The real truth will come out when our second string become our regulars... THEN you will see how our team really looks against competition. That's why I'm hoping we trade Al. He deserves better than this fanbase and this fanbase wants clipperville.

[Seano]

It's just fascinating to me, the interaction on this message board. Diesel is a character, and so you are you. I don't mean that negatively towards either of you, in fact I'm pretty fond of both of you as far as that goes- and I have no doubt that you're both good guys. I hope you never allow your disagreements to become personal.

[Spiral]

Let's look at something for a moment. I do agree that Al will talk with BK throughout his free agent period. The problem I see is if Al gets offered a max deal & goes back to BK and says, "Hey, Chicago offered me a max contract." What can BK do if Chicago says, "We are not looking to trade with you. We offered Al this deal in hopes that we can keep our draft picks." BK has a few options...

1. Go ahead & match the Chicago deal and sign Al for more than he's worth.

2. Let Al walk & get nothing in return.

3. Try to convince Al that he's not good enough to be a max contract player & that Chicago is not right for him.

4. Try to find another team that Al is willing to go and willing give him max money that will do a SNT.

I would think option 4 will only be there as long as Isiah Thomas is in charge.

Also,

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't Al's Bird rights go with him if he's traded. If they do, I don't see him being a 'rental' type player because any team that we trade him to will be able to exceed the salary cap to re-sign him.

[Diesel]

Is that not how the world is???

Doesn't most of this nation listen to Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity or someone else...

When you listen to these guys, it's so textbook.. This is what they say..

" Let me tell you how to interpret this."

" This is really what they're trying to say".

i.e. Let me tell you what to think.

Brainwashed. Daily.

Brianwashed by the staged calls. And the mode of brainwashing:

Good vs. Evil.

"It's us vs. them".

" We're the good guys, they're the bad guys"..

This is not the only media but it's the major media.. More people are stuck in their cars at least 3 hours a day to listen to these brainwasher than can go home and watch TV. 3 hours of brainwashing all day every day. I see these people. and some bring that same mentality to Hawksquawk. The problem is that they can't think for themselves. Too many people have to have things broken down and explained for them.

The individual thinks for himself.

I don't like a guy just because he puts on a Hawks uni. I like a guy when he produces for the Hawks.

So to answer your question...

is that how I really see the world...

Did you watch the state of the Union?

Why do people stand up and applaud?

That's how the world is.

Perception.

[exodus]

It is funny about how Diesel keeps saying Al's Bird Rights are so important if he stays a Hawk.

But then he says that the Hawks won't be able to get much if they trade him before the deadline because he would just be a rental. In this case his Bird rights don't matter, in Diesels mind.

[Seano]

Well if that's really how you view the world, then I don't know what else to tell you other than I'm sorry for you. I really mean that. I would imagine it must feel terribly lonely to feel so different from everyone else.

[Diesel]

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1. Go ahead & match the Chicago deal and sign Al for more than he's worth.

2. Let Al walk & get nothing in return.

3. Try to convince Al that he's not good enough to be a max contract player & that Chicago is not right for him.

4. Try to find another team that Al is willing to go and willing give him max money that will do a SNT.

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Yes, this is true. These are the 4 possibilities. Notice that only 1 in the 4 is bad for the Hawks from a value point of view.

But let's say Chicago offered a max contract and said... We're not trading back anything to you for Al..

Chicago leaves themselves open to being screwed later.

They have: Gordon, Deng, Hinrich, Duhon, and 2 lottery picks on the way that they will have under contract.. If they sign Al to a max deal, they will be at risk to lose at least 2 of these when FAcy comes around.

Like I have said before... Chicago refused to sign Scottie Pippen to a deal above the 4.5 Million dollar MLE and keep their dynasty together because Reinsdorf didn't want to spend the money. I have a hard time beleiving that he will ante up and go over the luxury tax for Al.

Al bird rights makes him no less a rental. You're right the team that holds him has a great advantage in negotiations...

However, what happens if Al is traded to a good team before the break but he doesn't get along with the coach or the front office?? Then it becomes a little more sketchy. I still think Al would work a SNT but that team is taking a much bigger risk than we have here...

[Diesel]

That's the thing. It's not lonely... There are a lot of people who think differently. That's part of the joy of coming to a messageboard.. If you look, you will see those who need to be led and those who think for themselves. I normally don't give the Shepards a hard time, but always the sheep. Because the sheep discuss me. Not the sheep personally, but the sheep collectively. The sheep can do better. Something so simple as Hawks basketball.

Should you always follow the GM?

NO.

Is the coach always right?

No.

Is the coach always to blame?

No.

The sheep don't even realize that it's not a one player game.. It's a team sport. However, i attribute that to Nike and David Stern. But thank God for the Pistons.

[Diesel]

Luefan, I don't know why I waste my time with you... Maybe I would like to see a sheep do better.

However, let me remind you...

YOu were the one who said and tried to argue that the year and % didn't mean much. Stupid statements like that makes me wonder if you have ever worked.

So let's see what you have learned..

Do you believe that Al's Bird Right (6yrs, 10% raises) are important in this free agnecy period to come??

[exodus]

They are of minimal importance with Al in my opinion.

Reason being is that he isn't a max player. if he was, then they would have a lot of importance, as they did with Bryant and Redd.

The fact that he isn't a max player, plus the fact that he is tired of losing and playing with young players, minimizes the value of his Bird rights.