Bill Lester

shock · March 19, 2006

Bill Lester is the first African-American to qualify for a cup series race since the mid 80's. He will be driving the number 23 Waste Management car for Bill Davis Racing. Obviously this is great for NASCAR, and long overdue. Good Luck to him and his crew.

Plainview1981 · March 20, 2006

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Bill Lester is the first African-American to qualify for a cup series race since the mid 80's. He will be driving the number 23 Waste Management car for Bill Davis Racing. Obviously this is great for NASCAR, and long overdue. Good Luck to him and his crew.

Why of course it's great for NASCAR. More hype and Money. Now they can pull the whole Jackie Robinson routine. It's ashame NASCAR is going to be applauded for being 30 years behind most everything else pretty much.

On the other hand, Lester himself seems like a nice guy and he's in his late 30's am I correct? Not every guy reaches the top at that age so it took him a long time to get where he wanted but he obviousally stuck with it.

Isn't he also from Atlanta?

shock · March 20, 2006

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Why of course it's great for NASCAR. More hype and Money. Now they can pull the whole Jackie Robinson routine. It's ashame NASCAR is going to be applauded for being 30 years behind most everything else pretty much.

On the other hand, Lester himself seems like a nice guy and he's in his late 30's am I correct? Not every guy reaches the top at that age so it took him a long time to get where he wanted but he obviousally stuck with it.

Isn't he also from Atlanta?

Im not sure what you mean by the "whole Jackie Robinson routine", but i think your completely wrong. That opinion might work better for you if we were talking about Wendell Scott, though I still would disagree.

As far as applauding NASCAR for being "behind in the times", lets applaud BILL LESTER. I dont think its a secret that very few African Americans like NASCAR, much less want to be a driver.

You are correct that 30 years has been too long. But they are trying to right the ship. And yes, Lester is from GA.

Plainview1981 · March 20, 2006

As far as applauding NASCAR for being "behind in the times", lets applaud BILL LESTER. I dont think its a secret that very few African Americans like NASCAR, much less want to be a driver.

You are correct that 30 years has been too long. But they are trying to right the ship. And yes, Lester is from GA."

Trying to right the ship? I question motives. They've really taken a sharp turn since Dale Earnhardt died. In fact, it kinda reminds me of my cousin. Nice kid until my uncle died then she went all to shyt. NASCAR has that same feeling to me.

What happend to Shauna Robinson? You know, the chick they used to get some cheap hype and now she's never to be heard from again.

Plainview1981 · March 20, 2006

I already said I'm happy for Bill.. H*ll, not many guys get they're first start at 45 years old! I was shocked that he is that old.

shock · March 20, 2006

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What happend to Shauna Robinson? You know, the chick they used to get some cheap hype and now she's never to be heard from again.

She sucked.

Squawker24 · March 21, 2006

While it's not NASCAR, Carmelo Anthony will be a co-owner of the Hemelgarn team in the Indy Racing League, a partnership designed in part to broaden the series' appeal to a younger generation of race fans.

On another note, American speedskater Shani Davis became the first African American to win an individual gold medal in the Winter Games when he raced to victory in the 1000m.

And I ask you, Are the winter Olympics behind the times also or is there just a lack of interest in particular sports?

CBAreject · March 21, 2006

"It's ashame NASCAR is going to be applauded for being 30 years behind most everything else pretty much."

So you're arguing NASCAR should feel ashamed that no black people are among their poster boys? Why? It's not as if they were discouraging blacks from racing. It is certainly true that blacks are less interested in racing, in general. You could certainly argue it's because few are involved in it for them to emulate, but then it is they who are being discriminatory, failing to be interested in a sport simply because they don't see anyone of the same skin color playing it. Of course, I DON'T REALLY THINK blacks are being discriminatory...but I don't think NASCAR is, either. Just making a point.

Should NASCAR be applauded? No. Why would we applaud NASCAR because someone with different colored skin decided to dedicate his life to racing? What did they have to do with that? Applaud the racer for working hard to excel in a difficult sport. Applaud him for succeeding under stressful conditions that all drivers face.

OR....maybe you're thinking NASCAR should've been actively recruiting black drivers 30 years ago, strictly on the basis of their being black, so that they would be with the times. WHY IS THAT ADMIRABLE? There's no substance there. Then, they would just be trying to avoid being accused of being exclusionary.

The problem is not with NASCAR. The problem is that in 2006 we still feel the need to say "the first black....". Why do we continue to segregate accomplishments? In a time when blacks were discouraged from playing sports in "all-white" leagues, it was a milestone for a black athelete to "break the color barrier" against great public pressure. Nowadays, it's purely a matter of whether a particular black athlete wants to compete in whatever sport. Go ahead and applaud him...I certainly will, but I will applaud him as a great competitor, not as a black hero. We should reserve "hero" status for Jackie Robinson, Carl Lewis, etc.

Plainview1981 · March 21, 2006

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What happend to Shauna Robinson? You know, the chick they used to get some cheap hype and now she's never to be heard from again.

She sucked.

Yeah, but so does Kyle Petty and others.. But they've hung around for years and years.

Plainview1981 · March 21, 2006

Quote:

While it's not NASCAR, Carmelo Anthony will be a co-owner of the Hemelgarn team in the Indy Racing League, a partnership designed in part to broaden the series' appeal to a younger generation of race fans.

On another note, American speedskater Shani Davis became the first African American to win an individual gold medal in the Winter Games when he raced to victory in the 1000m.

And I ask you, Are the winter Olympics behind the times also or is there just a lack of interest in particular sports?

I don't know enough about the Olympics to comment. The Olympics happen every 4 years, correct?

Plainview1981 · March 21, 2006

Quote:

"It's ashame NASCAR is going to be applauded for being 30 years behind most everything else pretty much."

So you're arguing NASCAR should feel ashamed that no black people are among their poster boys? Why? It's not as if they were discouraging blacks from racing. It is certainly true that blacks are less interested in racing, in general. You could certainly argue it's because few are involved in it for them to emulate, but then it is they who are being discriminatory, failing to be interested in a sport simply because they don't see anyone of the same skin color playing it. Of course, I DON'T REALLY THINK blacks are being discriminatory...but I don't think NASCAR is, either. Just making a point.

Should NASCAR be applauded? No. Why would we applaud NASCAR because someone with different colored skin decided to dedicate his life to racing? What did they have to do with that? Applaud the racer for working hard to excel in a difficult sport. Applaud him for succeeding under stressful conditions that all drivers face.

OR....maybe you're thinking NASCAR should've been actively recruiting black drivers 30 years ago, strictly on the basis of their being black, so that they would be with the times. WHY IS THAT ADMIRABLE? There's no substance there. Then, they would just be trying to avoid being accused of being exclusionary.

The problem is not with NASCAR. The problem is that in 2006 we still feel the need to say "the first black....". Why do we continue to segregate accomplishments? In a time when blacks were discouraged from playing sports in "all-white" leagues, it was a milestone for a black athelete to "break the color barrier" against great public pressure. Nowadays, it's purely a matter of whether a particular black athlete wants to compete in whatever sport. Go ahead and applaud him...I certainly will, but I will applaud him as a great competitor, not as a black hero. We should reserve "hero" status for Jackie Robinson, Carl Lewis, etc.

" It's not as if they were discouraging blacks from racing."

How do you know they were not? What efforts have they made until recently?

"It is certainly true that blacks are less interested in racing, in general."

Bill is like the 3rd driver in 4 or 5 decades. That's hard to believe. I don't believe NASCAR really attempted to make it more open years ago. That's my point. What has NASCAR done over the years to decrease the pressure if that's what you want to call it. What have they done?

I believe it took NASCAR way too long to reach out. So now it comes off as a business type of thing. Afterall, this is the business that is basically full of billboards. That's about all NASCAR is anyway.

NASCAR is a business and even more so the last 5 or 6 years.

NASCAR was a stupid event before, but now it's just overhyped and contrived. But that's about what america is all about... Afterall, Pro Wrestling is still around all these years, and stupid people over the age of 18 still watch it. So I've come to be surprised by very little.

"

OR....maybe you're thinking NASCAR should've been actively recruiting black drivers 30 years ago, strictly on the basis of their being black, so that they would be with the times. WHY IS THAT ADMIRABLE?"

I'm saying why did it take so long to make the changes NASCAR has made? Considering NASCAR's history and it's reputation for so long they seemed to do little to change that.

Now they've had such a change in heart over the last few years. Yeah, but for what reason? Sorry, I don't trust the old white men in fansy suits the way it appears that you do.

CBAreject · March 21, 2006

Oh, please do comment. Those Olympics folks are bigots. Actually, we don't use the word "bigot" nearly enough. What's interesting is that calling someone a "bigot" is bigotry.

Seriously, though....a decade before Jackie Robinson, there was Jesse Owens. The Olympics are NOT "behind the times".

And just for the sake of being repetitive....being "behind the times" is not, in itself, immoral by any reasonable measure of morality.

CBAreject · March 21, 2006

You miss a crucial point.

I argue that NASCAR was INDIFFERENT to black drivers. They neither encouraged nor discouraged them in the sport.

I feel you miss this point because you quip "How do you know they were not [discouraging]? What efforts have they made until recently [to encourage]?"

1) It seems you believe that the fact that I cannot prove they were not discouraging blacks is evidence that they were, in fact, discouraging them.

2) It seems that you feel that if NASCAR has not made efforts to encourage black drivers, they are, by default, discouraging them.

Both of these are fallacious points of view. First, if neither of us has evidence that NASCAR was NOT discouraging, there's no reason why we should assume that they WERE discouraging them. Second, I never said NASCAR had EVER encouraged black drivers to join, even recently. My claim is that NASCAR is INDIFFERENT to the color of their drivers. The fact that they haven't encouraged blacks DOES NOT MEAN that they prefer white drivers to black. Why do you say they've had a "change in heart"? Again, you assume that they had their hearts set against blacks in their sport...an unsubstantiated claim.

Furthermore, why would you assume that I trust old white men in fancy suits? I am highly suspicious of corporate and political corruption always and everywhere. I AM NOT claiming that what NASCAR is doing is MORAL. I'm claiming that it's NOT IMMORAL to be INDIFFERENT.

Let's say that the old, rich white men in fancy suits decided 25 years ago to recruit black drivers to increase black viewership to make more money. Would that be MORAL? These guys care about DOLLARS. The only reason they will recruit black drivers is if they think it will increase revenue....and it likely will.

Branch Rickey recruited Jackie Robinson because he thought he would help him WIN GAMES...not because he wanted to crumble racial barriers in baseball. "Reaching out" is most often about just grabbing money.

It seems that you are the one who believes in some of these white farts in fancy suits. After all, you applaud those organizations that "got with the times" 30 years ago or more, recruiting blacks to help them make more money. There was no altruism there.

Plainview1981 · March 21, 2006

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Oh, please do comment. Those Olympics folks are bigots. Actually, we don't use the word "bigot" nearly enough. What's interesting is that calling someone a "bigot" is bigotry.

Seriously, though....a decade before Jackie Robinson, there was Jesse Owens. The Olympics are NOT "behind the times".

And just for the sake of being repetitive....being "behind the times" is not, in itself, immoral by any reasonable measure of morality.

No. But I think NASCAR's moves the last 5 or 6 years show it to be nothing more than a cash grab. Which isn't really immoral, but it's still lame and predictable consider the times were in.

Plainview1981 · March 21, 2006

I argue that NASCAR was INDIFFERENT to black drivers. They neither encouraged nor discouraged them in the sport."

And now all of a sudden the last few years (after not doing it for so many years)they are. I'm questioning the motives behind what they're doing pretty much.

'

Furthermore, why would you assume that I trust old white men in fancy suits? I am highly suspicious of corporate and political corruption always and everywhere. I AM NOT claiming that what NASCAR is doing is MORAL. I'm claiming that it's NOT IMMORAL to be INDIFFERENT."

Well, it's wrong in my book. Just because it isn't wrong in your opinion doesn't mean it can't be wrong in my opinion.

I'm just saying non whites should have been given bigger shots before. It probably wouldn't have been for all the right reasons if they had done this 20 years ago, but to me

they look even worst now.

How people support this business is not understandable to me.

"

Let's say that the old, rich white men in fancy suits decided 25 years ago to recruit black drivers to increase black viewership to make more money. Would that be MORAL?"

No. HOWEVER... Non whites would have probably been more involved by now. I'm pointing out there with so many years past, NASCAR looks more and more guilty in my book. It's a bad problem that just got way worse that's all.

You got to remember, this is only part of my problem with the current NASCAR. But I understand where you're coming from. But I have my views and will stick with them.

CBAreject · March 21, 2006

"Well, it's wrong in my book."

Being indifferent is wrong??? So, anyone who doesn't show preference to blacks is in the wrong? Because I treat blacks and whites the same, I am immoral? I should be treating the blacks better than I treat the whites. Great.

"Just because it isn't wrong in your opinion doesn't mean it can't be wrong in my opinion."

That is true! HOWEVER, the fact that we may disagree over what is right and wrong DOESN'T MEAN there is no objective truth. Your opinion does not create the truth.

When all else fails you should appeal to symmetry. If we agree that men are equal, it makes no sense that it's best to treat one race with preference over another. That's why people thought segregation was wrong in the first place.

"I'm just saying non whites should have been given bigger shots before."

And I'm just asking why you think they weren't given shots! It's not that they were held back. If they were, I WOULD THINK NASCAR WAS WRONG TO HOLD THEM BACK! They just didn't have much interest in the sport, and with good reason. Racing is silly.

See? All you're doing with this last quote is recapitulating the argument from the beginning.

You say "Nascar needs to get with the times and stop holding back black folks!"

I say "Nascar wasn't holding them back"

You say "I'm just saying Nascar shouldn't have held them back."

We're going nowhere with this discussion.....

Plainview1981 · March 22, 2006