The Kruger Bashing Is Off-Base

[Nurlman]

You're wrong about Kruger. This team was ravaged by injuries each of the last two years and had modest talent. He never lost them; they kept playing hard. They kept developing, he kept teaching, this team never mailed it in. With a group of young guys making millions and being told at every turn how great they are, that's a tough gig.

He sifted through the hodgepodge of talent he had and found jewels. He developed players. I think we can all agree that not every NBA coach would have found the highest and best use for Ira Newble, for instance. He got serviceable minutes out of stiffs like Mottola. Was DerMarr Johnson a finished product defensively after his one year at Cincinnati?

When Jason Terry was a failed shoot-first point guard, did he bury him on the end of the bench, or did he find a way to use his talent to help the team and regain his confidence before moving him back to the point for another chance?

Nazr Mohammad was a throw-in in the Ratliff deal and played big minutes -- not a great player, mind you, but a guy who can contribute off the bench, especially with Ratliff back. Why? Because Kruger gave him a chance to develop, unlike Philly genius Larry Brown.

Now the Hawks have accumulated some talent. I think we can compete -- certainly a playoff team in the East, maybe a little deeper than that. Jason Terry, in addition to his wonderful offensive skills, looks like a leader on the cusp (don't forget, Kruger was a point guard himself and Big 8 player of the year in the 70s). SAR is just a horse. Ratliff is a unique player and defensive force and Big Dog is money (and looks to be a lot more team-oriented than George Karl would have us believe (perhaps the Kruger team and defense orientation is part of this?). And guess what? Suddenly the fact that Kruger developed players like Newble and Mohammad and Terry looks very promising.

1994, Gainesville, Florida, the Gators had a very modestly talented team. Dan Cross was a decent point guard, Craig Brown a good shooting guard. Andrew DeClercq (yes, the 10mpg/5 foul pg turd from the Magic) was the power forward. The Center was a 6-6,300 lead-assed hambone named Dametri Hill. The team was picked in the middle of the SEC. They played good team defense. The entire starting 5 averaged 5 rpg or better. When everyone looked up the team was 29-4, in the Final Four, and had Grant Hill not twisted off in the last 10 minutes of the FL-Duke semifinal, they might have gone all the way.

I'm not saying there aren't differences between the college and pro game - clearly there are. But this guy is a good coach -- maybe even a great one -- and he's put his money where his mouth is. Knock off the silly "he can't coach" posts and let's reassess at the end of the season. If you're right, Diesel, the fans get half a million bucks back and Kruger (and probably Babcock) loses his job. That's the American way.

[Guest]

Yeah that is right Nurl......have another losing

season because of a college coach and give the

Bucks a lotto pick....Afterall,we are good at making

other teams better.

I'm seriousally starting to question Atlantans basketball

knowledge.

Everyone but the people on this board can see Lon

can't coach.ESPN/Insidehoops/the fans with the

coaches ranking they all can see Lon sucks.

If you're right, Diesel, the fans get half a million bucks back and Kruger (and probably Babcock) loses his job. That's the American way. "

yeah and the team gets laugh at more....for what?

Some stupid college coach?Lon has done nothing

to deserve all the chances he is getting.You think

a mediocre second half record againest a bunch of

stiff teams like the Knicks and Warriors is enough

to warrent all of this?

You call Dermarr averaging 8PPG development?he

was improved but he was still a CBA cailber player

at the end of last season.All he was doing was hitting

a few three's.

"Big Dog is money "

Not anymore since Lon is too stupid to run screens

for him.Notice the fg% dropping off.Where are the

screens that he was getting in the first 3 games?

Lon is too busy using Darvin Ham in the post instead

of sitting screens for Big Dog.Why the [censored] was our

4 leading scorers on the bench at the same time?

There is no freakin excuse for Reef/JT/BD/newble

to be on the bench at the same time.No reason

at all!

How do you explain Email/Glover/Ham/Hendu/Theo

on the floor at the same time?Is that NBA basketball?

Lon is a nimrod.NBA coaches don't do this plain and

simple and anybody with a brain can see that.How

can you dare try to make a bum like Darvin Ham a

post player?What kind of idiot coach would think

Ham can do this?

What he done in college doesn't mean [censored] in the

pro's.

he will never be a sucessful in NBA coach because

he doesn't understand NBA basketball.I'm sorry,

but you don't put Darvin Ham in the post to pass

out to Dion Glover for 3pt shots.

All we done was beat a bunch of bad teams at the

end of last season.We can't keep wasting seasons

on a nimrod like Lon Kruger.He isn't worth it.Bring

in a somebody WITH PRO expeirence.[censored] mediocre

college coaches.Lon is right close to Sidney Lowe

and Tim FLoyd.

This team is in terrible shape and can't afford any

more losing seasons with no reward.If we have a

losing season again what do we get?Not even a

first round pick.We can't keep going through this

crap for a piece of crap like Lon.

Lon gets alot out of underachievers but doesn't use

NBA players the way they are supposed to be

used.Big Dog is supposed to be coming off screens

and hitting the 18 footer and not shooting 3's.

Don't give me the"jell as a team stuff"because

Big Dog's game has been this for 8 years and

they were doing it the first 3 games.

There is also no excuse for him putting lineups

that can't score on purpose when we get big

leads.it's half the time he makes a effort to

prevent blowouts.We can be up by 15 points

and here comes this stupid units on the floor

that have no business being out there together.

[Guest]

When Lon stops putting us in position to blow

big leads and starts subbing better I will give

him his due...But there is no excuse for some

of the dumb things he does.It just pisses me

off because alot of it isn't understandable.

[swolehawk2]

Man, I don't usually agree with you...but u r right on this one. He did the same thing in Phoenix at the start of the 4th putting 4 bench players on the floor and it cost us the game.

Seems as though he would learn. I have league pass, so I got the Laker's broadcast, and even the Laker announcers were wondering what the [censored] is was doing. [censored] shame, it is just common sense.

I have to give props to Ira, he made almost all of Kobe's shots tough...

But I wonder if Stotts and Heard say anything to Lon about giving away leads with the blue team on the floor!

[JTFan31]

He still is running those screens for Big Dig, just not as much. Why do it all the time? you also have Reef which is a great threat inside and he can dominate a game inside any night, he did it against the Kings and against the Lakers. Lon did a greta job there, he knew reef can dominate the Lakers inside and just kept feeding him, thats great coaching, analyze the opponents weakness and strike.....attack, and the Hawks did exactly that.

[Guest]

This is a team game.You can't throw everyone out

of the offense besides Shareef....You milk Big Dog

AND Shareef as much as possible.You can't just

give Reef the ball and so to [censored] with everybody else.

[Guest Walter]

...and often bashing done over simplistically.

I've already discussed how it is premature (We are 5-5 despite 7 road games.). An example of how simplistic any criticism is is for example insisting Lon no longer runs screens for BD. First, that is to say that Lon did run screens for Big Dog that were very effective. Sounds like good coaching. It's not like teams don't know Big Dog and won't respond quickly to focusing on shutting him down. It's not like screens aren't being being called (They still are.). It's not like SAR has returned to the lineup making us less dependent upon 30 pts from BD.

It seems like defenses are keying in on the calling of our screens for BD, either making them less effective or ruling them out altogehter in instances. Moreover, we have another, likely better, option in SAR that we must go to. Only the simpleton calls the coach only out for this, especially a .500 coach over 7 road games with almost a new team behind him.

I don't get it. We could be undefeated and there would be a handful of forum goers that would call for Lon's head for a variety of lame and/or selfish reasons. Hotlanta just to be negative, Black Hawk Down just to white coach hate, Diesel to rehash some ol' Lenny-lust, Babs(and not Kasten?)-hate, and feed his emaciated god complex...As it is we are .500 with a vastly new team and after perhaps the league's hardest opening 10 game schedule. I'll take that!

W

[emeans]

Exactly...some of these games should have been won easily and they flat out blew the Pheonix game because of some clueless substitutions in the 4th quarter.

You have to milk your stars as much as possible. He doesn't do that enough. If they can play the entire game and not hurt the team then they need to play the entire game.

Keep you stars in the game during crunch time and even when you need to shut the door on a team far behind. Nail them into the ground. Don't let them back into the game with bench players.

I hate when that happens. I will continue to give Lon a chance but if I continue to see us dominate and blow it again...Lon has to go!!!

[Guest]

You can say what you want....But there is NO

EXCUSE for having our 4 leading scorers on the

bench.

We are 4-4 so freakin what???When has this been

considered anything special?Just because we have

been worse over the last three years?That makes

it good??

Hey if we only win 37 games this year...So what

it's better than last year so it is supposed to be

good enough.

Too many people have this type of thinking.This

is small picture thinking.

First people act like a mediocre records are something

to brag about like the 17-16 last year and the 4-4

record so far...You know what,it's not even about

records.It's about Lon Kruger doing stupid a** things

that other coaches don't do.There is no excuse for

Email/Glover/Ham/Hendu/Theo to be on the floor

at the same time unless we are up by 20 with two

minutes to go...That is it.

I was talking to Lakers fans and they said even the

Lakers broadcasters were wondering what the [censored]

Lon was doing.Even other freakin broadcasters can

pin point it.I guess those broadcasters are just

being negitive also?Or maybe the fans that voted

Lon as a horrible coach...They are just being negitive...

Hardest open schedule??What a old Utah Jazz team,

a subpar Suns team,a beatup Kings team and a Shaq

less Lakers?That is tough?It looked so at the start

of the season,but the Suns/Jazz aren't good teams

right now.

As far as Big Dog goes he is not being used properly

he is barely shooting 42% and is shooting 3's and

that wasn't his game with the Bucks and it shouldn't

be his game here.You darn right Big Dog is well known,

but he has been getting points from screens in years

past....yet it isn't happening this season.

But everyone is just out to get Lon and hss some

secret Adjenda.[censored] Lon the world is againest

you!

Lon is a great person and obviousally a good college

coaches,but you don't even have to look at his win/

loss record to see he is a mediocre NBA head coach.

[Nurlman]

Walter, I suppose we're saying pretty much the same thing. I have a feeling Kruger is using his bench liberally to test for what he'll need later in the year. I remember one year Lenny played Mookie, Steve, Ty, Laettner and Mutombo 40mpg until their tongues were hanging out and we were all complaining (me included) about the lack of quality depth...

HotLDude, a couple points. I agree, curious substitution patterns at times. Cost us games? Maybe (Phoenix).

Ham in the post... if you had Hendu, a hurting SAR, a rickety and so far foul prone Ratliff (geez, his complaints about his hips make me nervous), Mohammad on the IR and a recently dredged-up scrub named McCaskill, you might be seeing if your 245 pound SF could give you some minutes down low (a more skeptical person might suggest that you would criticize Lon for not trying Ham down low if he hadn't.).

I'm inclined to let the season develop a bit before laying the wood on Lon. He's a good guy and a good coach. Players play for the guy. If this team falls short of the playoffs it will have underachieved, but I'll bet you it won't.

[Guest]

Ham doesn't belong in the post...

1)He isn't a ball handler

2)He doesn't have any skills other than dunking...period

3)He's undersized

4)there is nobody out there to hit 3's.

5)Dion is not a spotup shooter and he looked very

unconfortable in that role.

It is simple....You take out Newble and bring in Dion

and take out SAR and bring in Hendu and you have

JT/Dion/BD/Hendu/theo out on the floor....

Or you take out JT/Newble and bring in Email/Dion

and you ahve Email/Dion/BD/SAR/Theo and I don't

even mind Hendu playing center.

What you don't do is sub and bring in a bench team

at the same time.We are not Kings/Clippers/Detroit/

Dallas.When you bring in the bench all at the same

time you put Hendu and Dion at a dissadvange because

they aren't going to score as first and second options.

The only players that belong in the post are SAR/Hendu/

Theo and sometimes Big Dog.That is about it.

" If this team falls short of the playoffs it will have underachieved, but I'll bet you it won't."

And what if the teams has potential to go further

and doesn't because of Lon?Lon is not worth taking

the chance of missing the playoffs again.

[Nurlman]

It's hard for me to argue with your incredible knowledge. You're right -- fire Lon now, start over with a coach with pro experience. I hear Sidney Lowe is available.

[Guest Walter]

In game 7 of an 82 game season which hopefully if not likely will include UP TO 5, 12, 19, or 26 MORE games?!?

It's not like our "stars" or starters didn't average 36 or more MPG in the last 2 games since Theo asked for more MPG (save Ira, who got 30 minutes 2 games ago)! How many minutes over the 40 minutes SAR played in each of the last two games do you want him to be "milked" for in games 7 and 8 of a LONG, 82 game season???

Looks like we are playing our stars JUST FINE!

"Easy" wins are never easy when you run your starters to death on the road to make it "easy", when you show a lack of confidence in your bench and fail to develop them, etc. It's a long season. Coach like it. Play like it. Act like it.

W

[Nurlman]

I did a little research to assist you in selecting the next coach from your posts from a few days ago. Career records:

J Van Gundy 248-172 .590

Br Hill 222-227 .494

Bob Hill 113-108 .511

M Dunleavy 398-390 .505

Impressive choices. Let me know who we're going with.

[Guest]

JVG is not available to accept any coaching position in the NBA due to his agreement/ previous contract with the Knicks. Anyone wanting him to come in mid-season can scratch him off the list...

[Diesel]

This is Kruger's yr to be judged. Injuries or NO, we must judge him now. Aside from the excuses, there is the truth. The truth is that he has bad substitutions and always have had em. The truth is that he chooses CBA talent over good players consistently.

Those two things are worthy of Babcock calling him to the office and asking him to work on. However, if we are still floundering by Dec. 19, I say we get a new coach for Christmas.

[Diesel]

The truth is that we have the TALENT to be underfeated... However, we are not because of Coaching. Coaching has caused us one win already and has jeopardized all of them.

While you want to ignore it... or change the subject, stick to the subject for a minute...

What do you think about Lon's game losing Substitutions?

What do you think about Lon's inability to recognize who to keep in the game and who to take out?

What do you think about the large Leads that the Hawks have lost because we went with Squads that make absolutely now sense?

Walter, all I'm hearing from you is excuses excuses. The truth of the matter is with the talent that we have... Being poorly coaching we can still be close to .500. However, with everything on the line right now, we should have greater goals than the underachieving that you applaud.

Secondly, you say that going away from what works really well because the other teams starts to stop it is good? Come on man.. You need to go to the Magic Johnson school of coaching. Even Magic knows that if somebody is working, you don't abandon it... However, Lon doesn't. I don't care if Big Dog is averaging 82 ppg and SAR and JT don't get a touch... IF it's working, we keep going to that well until it runs dry. And if they begin to stop it, you don't just abandon it, but, you find out what you can do next. That's why the Stockton and Malone pick and roll was so successful for so many yrs. They never abandoned it. They knew that teams would come to defend it... However, their Coach had a plan. There are always other options. Defense is reactive... That means that in every instance, the offense is in control. However, you just applauded Lon because he allows a defense to control his offense.

I guess you don't get it.. and you never will.

[Guest Walter]

...never did (or I assume then it was Bab's fault)?

[censored], you even compare the (defensive gem, cutting, slashing, put back find) Ira to (stand and shoot just inside the 3) Corbin (entirely erroneously I might add), but Lenny didn't have ANYTHING to do with wanting Corbin (snicker).

W

[Diesel]

First off, your argument is very weak in that you refuse to criticize Lon the same way that you criticized Lenny. IF there's a hypocrite here....IT's you.

Secondly, Lenny didn't have a choice.

Lenny played all of his stars...

Smitty, Laettner, Deke, Mookie..

That's all he had. Babcock gave him other guys: Norman, Gray, Lauterdale, C. Martin, Etc. Bad draft yrs. And Lenny did what he could.

However, Lon has a multitude of good players and he benches DJ and Glover for Lrob? At one point he benched JT for Matt Maloney?

Nazr for Hanno? Nazr for Cal? Come on man.

Also, I know you want to talk about JT... Well look at this:

Lenny insisted that JT would never make it as a SG... He wanted JT to learn the PG position. After Lenny Left, Lon experimented all over the place with JT... But finally, who was right? Lenny. JT had to be made a PG unless we decided to go outand get Penny or GP.

Lastly, why is it that a Toronto team with NO Vince is better coached than us??

[Nurlman]

...So now the failed Lenny Wilkins is your barometer for good coaching. I remember the whole town throwing up their hands because Lenny wouldn't go more than 5 deep. We'd go out in the first round because Steve Smith's legs would go after playing 43mpg down the stretch and in the playoffs.

You're going to absurd lengths to prove your thesis, which is that Lon can't coach. Your logic is circular at best.

Lon needs to improve his substitution patterns, yes. You and Hotlanta, among others, have pointed that out, and you're right. He needs to improve in this area.

Lon handles people well. Lon understands and teaches defense. Lon motivates his players. Lon develops players. Lon helps players improve themselves. Everyone on the roster has a chance to contribute. He puts them in a position to succeed. Lon is a [censored] good coach and you're ignoring all of those positive qualities that he brings to the job.