Maybe this might work..

[Diesel]

Grob/Glover/Nazr to Chicago

Fizer/Erob/Crawford to Miami

Jones/Blount to Atlanta.

Helps Miami with it's cap. Helps us without our defense? Helps Chicago with it's acquisition of quality players.

[Guest Walter]

While Jones may (or may not) be "on the blocks" I always understood that Miami's plan was to use the significant cap space they already have and go after Tim Duncan. If so, then they would need an all around perimeter player like Jones and they certainly don't need no-D E-Rob (yuck) or his contract when they have both Butlers, Fizer is OK and so is Crawford, both are reasonably cheap through next year, however, their upside potential was rated against the weakest draft perhaps ever. I just don't think Miami cares to make this sort of deal. Regardless, this deal can't be made.

W

[Diesel]

Struggling with Committment Walter?

You want to disagree... however you must have read the insider:

In reply to:

---

Miami, already out of contention in the East, is determined to rebuild," writes Smith this morning. "To do so the Heat has to rid itself of big contracts, and coach Pat Riley, when not upset at the officials, lately has turned his wrath on Jones. ... To single out his best player like that surely is a sign that Jones has become expendable."

---

What that really means is that if Riley can find the right mix of young players who won't ask for the max, he can build. Mainly, Riley needs to get rid of Jones and Grant if he wants to persue Duncan. Together they make 24 million. With the other cheap roster players that Pat has... He can go after Duncan and one more desired player? However, Fizer, Crawford, etc would be pure trade bait to help a sign and trade with San Antonio.

Also. You have to realize that Jones would be nice in Chicago but what they really need is a SF to play alongside Rose. That's where Big Dog comes in. Big Dog/Rose would be a perfect match in chicago. All they would need would be a good post player. With Chandler and Curry still on the roster, there's hope. Also, even after they got chandler and Curry, Krause wanted Nazr.

So commit to something Walter.

As far as making a trade work through RealGM... let me see.

How bout this LOSING WHINER....

Atlanta trades: SF Glenn Robinson (21.4 ppg, 7.6 rpg, 3.0 apg in 37.7 minutes)

  C Nazr Mohammed (2.6 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.1 apg in 11.6 minutes)

Atlanta receives: SF Donyell Marshall (15.6 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 1.2 apg in 31.3 minutes)

  SG Eddie Jones (17.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 3.6 apg in 37.6 minutes)

Change in team outlook: +9.4 ppg, +4.7 rpg, and +1.7 apg.

Chicago trades: SF Eddie Robinson (5.8 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 0.5 apg in 19.2 minutes)

  SF Donyell Marshall (15.6 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 1.2 apg in 31.3 minutes)

  PF Marcus Fizer (10.3 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 1.1 apg in 19.1 minutes)

  PG Jamal Crawford (6.1 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 2.8 apg in 17.5 minutes)

Chicago receives: SF Glenn Robinson (21.4 ppg, 7.6 rpg, 3.0 apg in 26 games)

  C Nazr Mohammed (2.6 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.1 apg in 7 games)

Change in team outlook: -13.8 ppg, -9.7 rpg, and -2.5 apg.

Miami trades: SG Eddie Jones (17.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 3.6 apg in 37.6 minutes)

Miami receives: SF Eddie Robinson (5.8 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 0.5 apg in 25 games)

  PF Marcus Fizer (10.3 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 1.1 apg in 20 games)

  PG Jamal Crawford (6.1 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 2.8 apg in 27 games)

Change in team outlook: +4.4 ppg, +5.0 rpg, and +0.8 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Atlanta, Chicago, and Miami being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Atlanta, Chicago, and Miami had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

You have been assigned Trade ID number 848066

[jezmund]

Atlanta trades: SF Glenn Robinson (21.4 ppg, 7.6 rpg, 3.0 apg in 37.7 minutes)

SF Dion Glover (8.5 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 1.3 apg in 18.4 minutes)

Atlanta receives: SG Eddie Jones (17.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 3.6 apg in 37.6 minutes)

PG Mike James (8.9 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 2.7 apg in 21.3 minutes)

Change in team outlook: -3.2 ppg, -3.1 rpg, and +2.0 apg.

Chicago trades: SF Eddie Robinson (5.8 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 0.5 apg in 19.2 minutes)

PF Marcus Fizer (10.3 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 1.1 apg in 19.1 minutes)

PG Jamal Crawford (6.1 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 2.8 apg in 17.5 minutes)

Chicago receives: SF Glenn Robinson (21.4 ppg, 7.6 rpg, 3.0 apg in 26 games)

SF Dion Glover (8.5 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 1.3 apg in 24 games)

Change in team outlook: +7.7 ppg, +0.2 rpg, and -0.1 apg.

Miami trades: SG Eddie Jones (17.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 3.6 apg in 37.6 minutes)

PG Mike James (8.9 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 2.7 apg in 21.3 minutes)

Miami receives: SF Eddie Robinson (5.8 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 0.5 apg in 25 games)

PF Marcus Fizer (10.3 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 1.1 apg in 20 games)

PG Jamal Crawford (6.1 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 2.8 apg in 27 games)

Change in team outlook: -4.5 ppg, +2.9 rpg, and -1.9 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Personally, unless we are getting a solid PF/C in return, I'd like to hold onto Nazr.

JT/DD

Jones/James?

Ira/CC/Ham

SAR/Hendu

Theo/Nazr/McCaskill

The main problem with that would be having a slasher/ball- handler coming off the bench. Maybe even test the waters with JT for a quality PG and an athlete at SG/SF.???

[Diesel]

That's good too.

I entered Nazr because I thought it might sweeten the deal for Chicago. However, the way that would have to work if is they were to send us Marshall. Even though Krause want the young guys playing, I don't think he would part with Marshall like that.

However, getting James and Jones would be pretty good too.

JT/Jones/Ira/SAR/Theo.

With this team, we would be able to really talk harder about being a "defensive" team.

I would even consider.... A trade for a defensive three. Wonderful would be a trade that gave us Battier? Something like Nazr/1st for Battier/trybanksi.

We'd have a very strong defensive team... With good play at every position.

[Guest]

Actually, Krause might part with Marshall but it'd drive Cartwright mad. The guy's playing well this year (despite many of our comments about how he looked overweight this summer), but he's stealing quite a bit of time for the young bucks....

Aldridge made the "fool's gold" comment about Washington and Chicago...he couldn't be more on. If they want those boys to develop, the teams' going to ahve to lose...with them on the floor, getting at least 25 a night...

thanks for the trades guys - I'd do either of them (of course really like the second/keeping Nazr).

[Guest Walter]

The worst part is that you suggest that we trade even less (in not trading DG) and get even more (Donyell Marshall). Consider that trade a laugher. Is that commital enough for you? Try to be nice on a holiday by pointing out the IMPOSSIBILITY of a trade and you get judged negatively. Geeze Scrooge.

P.S.

Chicago wouldn't give up Marshall, Fizer, Crawford, and E-Rob for Glenn and Nazr. NO WAY!

What I don't understand is why you, Diesel, want to change both the coach and the players at the same time. Do you think it is not the coach's fault (or responsibility to take the heat)? If you do then why trade so many important players? The likelihood of making a positive trade for this team at this time is almost nil (your fantasies aside). If you think it's the coach's fault as it appears you only do - as you have incessantly contradicted yourself by insisting that, unlike when Lenny Wilkens was coach, it is NOW the coach's job to motivate players until they play hard - and you know that this point in the season is not the time to make such a deal and the deal likely be positive for the team, WHY?

I'm not against changing players OR the coach. In fact, I am for changing Kruger as I see no advantage to keeping him. I just don't see why you do both at once. Work your team scientifically! Change ONE variable at a time to see what variable has the positive impact. Certainly, changing the coaching variable is enough change to satisfy everyone now. If more changes are called for later AT LEAST WE WILL KNOW SO.

W

[Diesel]

You've seen two examples of how it can be done. You yourself know that the major parts are Robinson, Jones, and Young guys...

Like:

Atlanta trades: SF Glenn Robinson (21.4 ppg, 7.6 rpg, 3.0 apg in 37.7 minutes)

SF Dion Glover (8.5 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 1.3 apg in 18.4 minutes)

Atlanta receives: SG Eddie Jones (17.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 3.6 apg in 37.6 minutes)

PG Mike James (8.9 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 2.7 apg in 21.3 minutes)

Change in team outlook: -3.2 ppg, -3.1 rpg, and +2.0 apg.

Chicago trades: SF Eddie Robinson (5.8 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 0.5 apg in 19.2 minutes)

PF Marcus Fizer (10.3 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 1.1 apg in 19.1 minutes)

PG Jamal Crawford (6.1 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 2.8 apg in 17.5 minutes)

Chicago receives: SF Glenn Robinson (21.4 ppg, 7.6 rpg, 3.0 apg in 26 games)

SF Dion Glover (8.5 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 1.3 apg in 24 games)

Change in team outlook: +7.7 ppg, +0.2 rpg, and -0.1 apg.

Miami trades: SG Eddie Jones (17.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 3.6 apg in 37.6 minutes)

PG Mike James (8.9 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 2.7 apg in 21.3 minutes)

Miami receives: SF Eddie Robinson (5.8 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 0.5 apg in 25 games)

PF Marcus Fizer (10.3 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 1.1 apg in 20 games)

PG Jamal Crawford (6.1 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 2.8 apg in 27 games)

Change in team outlook: -4.5 ppg, +2.9 rpg, and -1.9 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

However, you hide behind BS... in your opinion. Like a few weeks ago, you were all about keeping Lon. Even tried to hide behind Ira's words about it not being the coaches fault.... However, like ALWAYS... You gotta come back to the conclusion that Diesel is Right.

Why don't you try this... Instead of disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing... Try thinking.

[Guest Walter]

YOUR trade didn't work the first time because it plain DIDN'T WORK!

YOUR second trade didn't work because you kept Dion and expected to get Donyell Marshall in addition to Eddie Jones. WHAT? Marshall, Fizer, Crawford, & E-Rob for Nazr and Glenn Robinson!?! That's in essence what you were suggesting Chicago WOULD do!

Read it for yourself!

In reply to:

---

"Chicago trades: SF Eddie Robinson (5.8 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 0.5 apg in 19.2 minutes)

SF Donyell Marshall (15.6 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 1.2 apg in 31.3 minutes)

PF Marcus Fizer (10.3 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 1.1 apg in 19.1 minutes)

PG Jamal Crawford (6.1 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 2.8 apg in 17.5 minutes)

Chicago receives: SF Glenn Robinson (21.4 ppg, 7.6 rpg, 3.0 apg in 26 games)

C Nazr Mohammed (2.6 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.1 apg in 7 games)

Change in team outlook: -13.8 ppg, -9.7 rpg, and -2.5 apg."

---

YOU'RE A MADDDDDDDDDDDDDDD MAN to think Chicago is going for any deal resembling that!

On a slight side note...

I find it humorous that "Diesel is right", even when he doesn't believe it. Diesel, you won't even stand behind your own trade suggestion. You abandon your own trade suggestion in favor of another poster's. You uses another poster'strade suggestion, one I had not even seen or commented about, to accuse me of "not thinking". Bah humbug to you too Diesel.

As far as the trade you cited in your post YOU KNOW THE TRADE THAT WASN'T YOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

While Miami might want to rid itself of EJ's contract they don't want to do so to take on E-rob and his contract (with almost no output) and their having the two butlers at Sf already, Fizer, or Crawford (whose numbers are less than James who they must trade to make this suggested deal work). The fact is that Miami can't rid itself of cap space for this upcoming offseason (the offseason they want cap space for, and remember, they already have enough cap space - due to Mourning's contract expiring - to make an offer to Duncan) unless they trade for players with deals concluding THIS YEAR. None of the players mentioned do. Moreover, their salaries combined CANNOT BE more than 10% less than (and might be 10% more than) the salaries of James and EJ. In otherwords, THIS DEAL DOES NOT CREATE ANY REAL CAP SPACE (and may cost some).

Miami likely would trade EJ and very well might for the right deal. Chicago likely would like to trade Fizer, Crawford, and/or others. These all appear reasonable conclusions. However, what makes ANYONE think Chicago wants G-Rob. Maybe Rose would play the 2 (although he doesn't look comfortable there). I just don't see it for all the above reasons and others including it's a major three way deal before mid-season. Trades will happen. They will quite possibly include some of or all of Chicago's and Miami's players mentioned. They will not include G-Rob to Chicago.

Which brings me to my final point which you can't seem to address. Why do you want to change both the coach and the players of this team when you blame the coach for everything bad?

W

I find it humorous that "Diesel is right", even when he doesn't believe it. Diesel, you won't even stand behind your own trade suggestion. You abandon your own trade suggestion in favor of another poster's. You uses another poster'strade suggestion, one I had not even seen or commented about, to accuse me of "not thinking". Bah humbug to you too Diesel.

W

[Jester]

What's with all this trade stuff? Wasn't it Diesel who was glad we finally had acquired a bonifide Small Forward in Glenn Robinson? What is it to be unhappy about now? We are never going to have a team full of superstars; no team has more than 2 or 3 bonifide stars; not the Lakers, not the Nets, not the Magic. No team. We have Theo, we have Sar, we have JT, we have GRob. We have more of our share of good to great players. Ira is not that shabby and we need his D and intensity. BTW, we have a very good bench too, and it would have ben better, had Dermarr (DJ) not gotten injured. NOw with C. Crawford out, and Emanual Davisout, we're hurting some, but still, overall, this is a very good team:

POS HT WT DOB FROM YRS

3 Shareef Abdur-Rahim -C F 6-9 240 12/11/76 California '99 6

4 Chris Crawford F 6-9 235 5/13/75 Marquette '97 5

15 Emanual Davis G 6-5 195 8/27/68 Delaware State '91 5

12 Dan Dickau* G 6-0 190 9/16/78 Gonzaga '02 R

5 Dion Glover F-G 6-5 228 10/22/78 Georgia Tech '02 3

8 Darvin Ham F-G 6-7 230 7/23/73 Texas Tech '96 5

44 Alan Henderson F-C 6-9 240 12/02/72 Indiana '95 7

1 DerMarr Johnson* G-F 6-9 201 5/05/80 Cincinnati '03 2

11 Matt Maloney G 6-3 200 12/06/71 Pennsylvania '95 5

2 Nazr Mohammed C 6-10 250 9/05/77 Kentucky '99 4

14 Ira Newble G 6-7 220 1/20/75 Miami (Ohio) '97 2

42 Theo Ratliff C-F 6-10 230 4/17/73 Wyoming '95 7

13 Glenn Robinson F 6-7 230 1/10/73 Purdue '94 8

31 Jason Terry G 6-2 180 9/15/77 Arizona '99 3

29 Mike Wilks

What this team needs is to watch a lot of film, have players only meetings, fire a coach or 2. What I don't see this team needing right now is to trade any players. MAybe Pete Boboc$ock sees it differently, but I doubt it. The players should have jelled by now. If management sees the problem for what it really is, and I think Pete Bobc$ock does, changes, and the right changes, are coming soon. PEACE 10-4.

[Diesel]

Oh,

Believe me, I am happy having a Bonafide SF. Because it took a long time to find one... And unlike most here, I know that Glenn is not the problem. The true problem is coaching.

However, Jezmound was tossing out trades ideas to get Eddie Jones....

As much as it would be hard to see Glenn traded, I think that Jones would be a different type of fit.... Namely, he would change our team from a team centered around offense to one centered around defense.

Now, we have brought out several possibilities... However, this is the other thing... If we were to trade Glenn and somehow got Jones back.... JT wouldn't be far behind. JT's defense is weak. I wouldn't want Jones to be an excuse for JT to play Shabby defense. Plus... Jones is no longer young. If we had him, we'd need a team that could compete for 4-5 yrs at the highest level.

So, to rectify that situation, we'd need to trade JT for a PG that can play Defense and assist and put up points? Anybody comes to mind?

JT to Sactown for Bobby Jackson/Filler?

Actually, one more time with JT wouldn't hurt under better coaching??