This Team Just SUCKS

[TexasPete]

How Mike Woodson and Billy Knight still have jobs is incredible. This team has basically quit. The excuses are a joke. We are headed to the worst in the league AGAIN. Give the Grizzlies some time with Gasol and they will win enough to pass us.

How low does this go before any changes are made? Is there nobody accountable in this lousy organization? The Spirit are just useless.

[DrReality]

I think the owners are more powerless than BK and Woody. Not sure they can make changes given the split, and if they can afford it. LIke I said, it could get really ugly before its over.

[hawkman]

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I think the owners are more powerless than BK and Woody. Not sure they can make changes given the split, and if they can afford it. LIke I said, it could get really ugly before its over.

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Something has got to give. Stern needs to step in or something. The owners are battling for the franchise, the coach is clueless, and the team has basically quit. We're dead in the water. There has to be a way to fix this. It's extremely hard to be a Hawks fan right now.

[Guest Walter]

But a top 3 pick would entice many otherwise skeptical GMs and coaches to consider joining this ship and if acquired and retained should be the single most important bargaining chip in revitalizing this franchise.

W

[hawkman]

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But a top 3 pick would entice many otherwise skeptical GMs and coaches to consider joining this ship and if acquired and retained should be the single most important bargaining chip in revitalizing this franchise.

W

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Heck, we may not even get a top 3 pick. Remember that great trade that our genius of a GM made for JJ? He was so confident(see arrogant) that we would be in the playoff race this season that our pick is only top 3 protected rather than lottery protected. It's possible that we can continue our recent trend of stinking until the end of the season, and guess who gets our pick if it's not in the top three? The friggin Phoenix Suns!!!!! One of the best teams in the league!!!!! This is just too much. Like I said before, this situation is so bad that it's actually kinda funny at times.

[Guest Walter]

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Like I said before, this situation is so bad that it's actually kinda funny at times.

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I'd be looking for a trade that "propels us to the lottery". How about ZaZa to NJ for Marcus Williams, Jeff McGinnis (waived), and a lotto protected 1st rder. They need a big BAD!

Actually, I want to trade Lue (not ZaZa) and maybe Lo to ensure losing enough if we're going to lose this much anyhow. Anyhow maybe Lue and Lo for McGinnis (waived), Marcus Williams, and Wright (throw in). The first idea less attractive, but more likely. Hmm? Combine the 2?

How about ZaZa and Lue for Marcus Williams, a top 8 protected 1st, Mcginnis, and Wright (throw-in). It's essentially ZaZa and Lue for Marcus Williams and a top 8 protected pick with NJ currently 11-18. D@mn, I'd do that! MW = to or > Lue for the long term and NJ is currently 8th worst but regardless of changes likely to be a lottery pick.

I know its ugly to think about, but without ZaZa or Lue we cruise to the league's worst record.

Anyone else have any ideas?

W

[Diesel]

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But a top 3 pick would entice many otherwise skeptical GMs and coaches to consider joining this ship and if acquired and retained should be the single most important bargaining chip in revitalizing this franchise.

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Shall I call this the one pick theory??

No coach wants to come to a situation with unstable ownership and a team that has quit.

Try to understand this Walter.

It doesn't matter if the pick was Young Bill Russell...

If the coach doesn't have a GM who can trade players or Bring in players... and the coach doesn't have the confidence in knowing that he will have a job after the court preceddings are finished, he's not going to take that job... NOT a good coach.

Our situation is bad. We have no ownership resolution. Our GM has his hands tied and really can't make any major changes and inthe situation we're in, we can't afford a good coach and we can't get a good coach.

I suppose Woody will be the coach until the ownership situation changes.

[Diesel]

I don't think it was a mistake to make the Phoenix trade. I can't believe you're bitching about getting a franchise player.

Would you rather have: Diaw, last years Philly Pick, and this year's pick back??

That's what you're saying....

Oh, let me add... Diaw would be in France right now. He would not have resigned with Atlanta.

So, ask Phoenix... If they would take Joe Johnson Back and they give us this years pick and the compensation that they got for last years pick....

Otherwise, quit bitching about the trade.

[Guest Walter]

So let me get this straight Diesel. We shouldn't "tank" because it couldn't possibly change our management or coaching fortune and Hibbert, who we have a lesser chance of getting with Indy's pick than a top 3 pick by tanking, will save the day over a top 3 pick.

I'm not saying any one thing will change our fortunes, BUT these are truths:

1) Given ownership will likely not spend much, the ONLY way to significantly improve the team is through the draft.

2) a top 3 pick >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>18th overall pick

3) the chance of Oden, Durant, Thabeet, Brandan Wright, and Noah (all potential franchise changers at 1-3) are better than Hibbert at 18 (who isn't even considered to enter in many mock drafts sites for whatever reason and who, if he does and he has ANY value will go well higher than 18 because of his sheer size)

4) The chance of getting a top 3 pick if we have the 1st through 3rd worst record is no certainty but again a greater one than Hibbert being available at 18.

5) A GM or coach would rather come into our situation WITH a top 3 pick in this excellent draft over without such a pick.

Those are obvious facts. Opinions are the extent short-term losing verses long-term resignation (your position, given you don't think management or coaching will change and our "hope" is to be found in of all places the 18th overall pick given ownership won't spend) will damange our young players or the extent a top 3 pick, particularly one at the center position in this draft might reinvigorate this entire franchise.

I'll stick with the facts on this one AND I believe we can "tank" while actually improving our team's LONG-TERM morale and our franchise's hopes.

W

[DrReality]

Saw a rumor that Sonics may release Andreas Glyniadakis. He couldn't be any worse than Lo. He was in camp with us so should be familiar with our schemes.

[Guest Walter]

...and should he or anyone else attempt to do so now, please no more pansy pop songs like "Hold On" as our battle cry for how this franchise can hope to turn itself around. Wilson Phillips should never be called upon to change a franchise's fortune.

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Don't you know?

Don't you know things can change

Things'll go your way

If you hold on for one more day

Can you hold on for one more day

Things'll go your way

Hold on for one more day

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There are no certainties but there are facts surrounding this issue. They aren't being argued and can't be disputed which is why there has yet to be a response to my post. "Holding on" is not a rebutal but a concession to these facts.

W

[lawman]

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Saw a rumor that Sonics may release Andreas Glyniadakis. He couldn't be any worse than Lo. He was in camp with us so should be familiar with our schemes.

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what scheme is that? i dont think the players on our team right now are familiar with are scheme or know what are scheme is for that matter; we dont have a scheme. we are a schemeless nba team

[hawkman]

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I don't think it was a mistake to make the Phoenix trade. I can't believe you're bitching about getting a franchise player.

Would you rather have: Diaw, last years Philly Pick, and this year's pick back??

That's what you're saying....

Oh, let me add... Diaw would be in France right now. He would not have resigned with Atlanta.

So, ask Phoenix... If they would take Joe Johnson Back and they give us this years pick and the compensation that they got for last years pick....

Otherwise, quit bitching about the trade.

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Please don't put words in my mouth. Where did this Diaw stuff come from??? I didn't even mention Diaw in my post. I didn't even say it was a mistake to trade our pick this year. I said that it was a mistake to have the pick only top 3 protected instead of lottery protected. That's just pure arrogance right there on BK's part. If everyone who co-signed this mistake would just read my post word for word instead of being so overly sensitive about any opinion that differentiates from their own, they could see the arrogance of BK's decision. It's good for the GM to be confident in his product, but it's arrogant to not have some sort of contingency plan. Having that pick lottery protected instead of top 3 protected would have been such a contingency plan in the unfathomable event that we didn't make the playoffs. I'm not complaining, it's just an observation. Calm down.

[Diesel]

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I said that it was a mistake to have the pick only top 3 protected instead of lottery protected. That's just pure arrogance right there on BK's part.

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First of all, Phoenix didn't have to trade with us. Therefore the stipulations was in their court and not ours. That's why I brought up the JJ trade. In my eyes, we were really trading a big ball of nothing for JJ because Phoenix really didn't need anything we gave them as much as we needed JJ. Therefore with them setting the terms of the deal, they get what they ask for.

That's why I find it funny to see all these complaints about the trade.

We made a deal based on what Phoenix wanted from us. Now, we could have stuck our lip out and said, we want to take off this and that and JJ would be a Knick right now or he would be a King right now... JJ was the only present commodity in that trade. We gave them future.

So we can't complain about what we gave because we got what we wanted out of the deal. All we can do is enjoy having our franchise player and do the best with what we have.

[hawkman]

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I said that it was a mistake to have the pick only top 3 protected instead of lottery protected. That's just pure arrogance right there on BK's part.

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First of all, Phoenix didn't have to trade with us. Therefore the stipulations was in their court and not ours. That's why I brought up the JJ trade. In my eyes, we were really trading a big ball of nothing for JJ because Phoenix really didn't need anything we gave them as much as we needed JJ. Therefore with them setting the terms of the deal, they get what they ask for.

That's why I find it funny to see all these complaints about the trade.

We made a deal based on what Phoenix wanted from us. Now, we could have stuck our lip out and said, we want to take off this and that and JJ would be a Knick right now or he would be a King right now... JJ was the only present commodity in that trade. We gave them future.

So we can't complain about what we gave because we got what we wanted out of the deal. All we can do is enjoy having our franchise player and do the best with what we have.

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That's the whole point of negotiation. They make a high offer, we counter that with a lower offer. You say that we gave up a whole ball of nothing. With our team hitting the skids, does it seem like a whole ball of nothing now? Do you think offering them our lottery protected pick instead of a top 3 protected pick would really have been a deal breaker? I doubt it. I bet Phoenix thought that we would never agree to that deal as it stood at that time. That detail was small to them but huge to us. At least admit that this is a valid point. At least give me that much.

[Guest Walter]

In the JJ trade both sides were equally needy. We needed JJ. We needed to prove we could get a major FA. Once Belkin bucked, we needed to save face. Pheonix couldn't match the heavily front-loaded deal without ending up paying the tax on it and expect to trade JJ, especially after he had publically stated he didn't want to play in Pheonix, so they needed us to take JJ at the amount we had contracted with him for. There really wasn't an upper-hand here. Given that, we should have had more protection EARLY on the pick.

Still, had BK made good draft decisions immediately prior to and following the trade and had he gotten something of value for Al prior to the trade deadline, we wouldn't be having these discussions. He didn't and was reasonable to think he couldn't in which case hawkman is right. BK could've avoided this all along with more protection on the pick early (especially since we knew it was going to be a great draft). He could have avoided it after the fact by not making trade, FA, and especially draft mistakes of commision and ommission one on top of the other. In short, BK screwed up twice in this regard.

W

[Guest Walter]

Can anyone refute these facts?

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1) Given ownership will likely not spend much, the ONLY way to significantly improve the team is through the draft.

2) a top 3 pick >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>18th overall pick

3) the chance of Oden, Durant, Thabeet, Brandan Wright, and Noah (all potential franchise changers at 1-3) are better than Hibbert at 18 (who isn't even considered to enter in many mock drafts sites for whatever reason and who, if he does and he has ANY value will go well higher than 18 because of his sheer size)

4) The chance of getting a top 3 pick if we have the 1st through 3rd worst record is no certainty but again a greater one than Hibbert being available at 18.

5) A GM or coach would rather come into our situation WITH a top 3 pick in this excellent draft over without such a pick.

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W

[Diesel]

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) Given ownership will likely not spend much, the ONLY way to significantly improve the team is through the draft.

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Before we start talking about tanking, let's first consider where this team stands. Surely, you don't suggest tanking with 53 games left and us being 7 games out of first place in our conference?

You also cannot ignore the fact that we've been injured and right now, our number 2 and 3 scorers are out.

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2) a top 3 pick >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>18th overall pick

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Sure it is. . Who wouldn't want that?

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) the chance of Oden, Durant, Thabeet, Brandan Wright, and Noah (all potential franchise changers at 1-3) are better than Hibbert at 18 (who isn't even considered to enter in many mock drafts sites for whatever reason and who, if he does and he has ANY value will go well higher than 18 because of his sheer size)

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Before we start talking about tanking, let's first consider where this team stands. Surely, you don't suggest tanking with 53 games left and us being 7 games out of first place in our conference?

You also cannot ignore the fact that we've been injured and right now, our number 2 and 3 scorers are out.

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) The chance of getting a top 3 pick if we have the 1st through 3rd worst record is no certainty but again a greater one than Hibbert being available at 18.

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Before we start talking about tanking, let's first consider where this team stands. Surely, you don't suggest tanking with 53 games left and us being 7 games out of first place in our conference?

You also cannot ignore the fact that we've been injured and right now, our number 2 and 3 scorers are out.

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A GM or coach would rather come into our situation WITH a top 3 pick in this excellent draft over without such a pick.

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Afraid that once they see the unstability of our ownership, good coaches and GMs would be scared off.

It's like if somebody says: Walter, come and join my medical practice. However, the person that asks you is in debt to his eyeballs, he can barely keep his insurance. He looks like he's about to be shut down every month.. then he says " but we might get a new MRI in 5 months..."

Now Walter, you may have noticed the reduncy in my answers. That's because that's exactly how your questions are...

Allow me to make one statement about everything you have said that will hopefully close this book.

IF we had won every game we had played to this point, everything you have said would still be true. By your definition, we would have no choice but to start tanking games... Maybe you ought to propose this line of thinking to Piston fans. They need a better big than Nazr....

Take the blinders off Walt.

[Guest Walter]

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IF we had won every game we had played to this point

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But we haven't, we're losing terribly, and even healthy we're not a playoff team. Truth is, we're the 3rd losingest team in the league now, so if your hypothetical is any indication, not only is it always true what I cited, it's now necessary I-F this team wants to contend, period.

There is no moral victory left here. It's more important that we accomplish getting rid of Woody, BK, AND getting a fortune-changing talent through the only means available to us, the top 3 picks in the draft, than to see our kids will themselves to the admirable 7th worst record in the league and BK's and Woody's job salvaged.

We've had moral victories for many years with minor end season runs that cost us draft positions. Yet, we're still where we are. Perhaps we need a moral correction. We need to have things "go so wrong" that we end up with a top 3 pick and a clean house.

Otherwise, it's "stay the course", "hold on", and more empty rhetoric now and our tearfully watching Oden, Thabeet, or Durant carry a team for the next 10 years.

[Diesel]

IF we had won every game we had played to this point, everything you have said would still be true. By your definition, we would have no choice but to start tanking games