Start a meaningful thread.....

[bumpyphish1]

I challenge YOU! It's getting pretty watered down on here lately. All we talk about is Conley this and Conley that. And the fact that we are still arguing over Deng is ridiculous. Throw out some offseason plans, trade ideas, draft scenarios, interesting notes from last season, talk about possibilities of us bringing over our players from abroad, break down and individual on our team (ala Salim), whatever. I know it's the offseason, but this site helps get me through the work day.

I tell you what I would like to see...A list of the top 13 or so players on out draft board so we will see who at least 3 players that will DEFINITELY be available on draft day for us at #11.

Oh, and no griping about the past. No mention of Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Iguodala, Deng, Diaw, etc. All we have is the present (and FUTURE).

You can, however, creatively bash Mike Woodson as much as you want if you ask me.

Just trying to spur some good Hawks talk.

[newkid]

Seems like a reasonable request. Here's an offering that'll likely be viewed as a bit convoluted, but here goes.

It begins with the good fortune of us getting the 2nd pick (which we QUICKLY use to take Durant), and it includes a potential scenario where we also get the 5th, 12th, 21st, and 35th picks in the '07 draft, AND Camby.

So we select Durant, then package Marvin and Speedy to Seattle for the Sonics' 5th and 35th picks and Ridnour. Logic: Rashard's off to greener pastures, so an affordable/rising sf is greatly needed to replace Lewis (perfect fit for Marvin); Sonics wish to ship Ridnour as he's out-of-favor there (Speedy could go back to his back-up role behind Earl Watson at a slight decrease in cost to Sonics); Sonics also have 1st and 5th picks in 2nd round, and are already quite young. Hawks select Hibbert with 5th pick.

Hawks send 11th pick plus Childress to Philly for 12th and 21st picks (plus a 2nd round pick in '08). With the 12th pick we select Batum (as apprentice to JJ); with the 21st pick we select Crittenton (as apprentice to Ridnour). Batum will more than make up for the contributions we get from Chilz, and his upside is off the charts. Philly doesn't have a Chilz type player who can play multiple positions and add to team's overall basketball IQ. Philly is essentially getting Chilz for the 21st pick this year and a 2nd rounder in '08. We get a 19 year-old (Batum) whose game projects to be the JJ type, and a 19 year-old (Crittenton) 6'5" point guard who'll have an opportunity to learn the pro game behind Ridnour.

With the 35th pick we select the very athletic - and inconsistent - 6'8" Rey Terry (UNC) to work behind Durant.

We package AJ, Lo Wright, and our '08 2nd round pick to Denver for Camby because Denver will need to cut salary to get below or near the 'luxury tax' threshold, and because Denver will badly need a point guard for next season(Blake's likely off to Portland after the playoffs). Both AJ and Lo's salaries will fall off the balance sheet at the end of next season, which would be great for Denver.

Next season's roster therefore would include JJ, Durant, Hibbert, Smoove, Ridnour, Camby, Batum, Crittenton, Zaza, Solo, Rey Terry, Sheldon Williams, Salim, and Lue. Trade deadline deals should then be pursued for both Salim and Lue, as they're in the last year of their contracts.

[AHF]

Color me skeptical on the likelihood of Denver being unable to get more in return from someone else (such as a trade with Charlotte or three-way involving Charlotte, etc.).

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We package AJ, Lo Wright, and our '08 2nd round pick to Denver for Camby because Denver will need to cut salary to get below or near the 'luxury tax' threshold, and because Denver will badly need a point guard for next season(Blake's likely off to Portland after the playoffs). Both AJ and Lo's salaries will fall off the balance sheet at the end of next season, which would be great for Denver.

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[bumpyphish1]

wow, newkid. you don't like to keep things simple do you? your logic isn't bad but there is no way we would ever be that active with this ownership mess. still, it's kind of fun to think about. plus, we do not want to get even younger!!!

[Dragitoff]

I keep holding on to the dream that we somehow net Oden and either Law or Conley Jr. in the draft. If we do that, we really don't need to do much else.

Speedy/Draft PG/Lue

JJ/AJ/Salim

Marvin/Chillz

Smoove/Shelden/SoLo

Oden/ZaZa/Lo

That's 14 players out of the possible 15 roster spots. If we had a 2nd round pick in the draft this year (can't remember if we do or not)use it to draft a player to round out the roster.

I think that team is a huge improvement over last year simply because we have more depth at the positions most affected by injury. We'd still keep our youth with a few key vets without sacrificing a solid team.

[Iman]

Wow Newkid..lol. That team would be too young and basically you're giving Chillz away for less than a 21st pick so I especially dont like that part of the deal.

If we get the 2nd pick, I see BK moving it or Durant later for an established player. I think management is starting to get desperate for instant wins.

I see us drafting a big then hoping the combination of less injuries (including Speedy playing most of the year) and team/player growth will get us 40-45 wins next year. A new Coach is a strong possibility also, especially if we dont get off to a strong start next season.

[lunar]

Alright, I'll try to help you out.

Offseason Plan #2

Draft Day --

if we get #1, draft oden

if we get #2, draft durant and trade marvin and tyron lue to philly for andre miller.

if we get #3, trade pick and tyron lue to seattle for #5 pick and johan petro. with #5 pick i would draft roy hibbert.

with #11 pick, draft Acie Law IV.

no free agency availible just have to resign childress and josh smith. childress gets a $30 million contract and smith gets a $45 million contract (smililar to josh howard).

let go of slava, bautista, and ivey

2007 roster

#1 pick

pg- law/ claxton/ lue/ johnson (lue or johnson gets traded at deadline

sg- johnson/ stoudmire (stoudmire gets larger role on team)

sf-williams/ childress (childress plays primarily at SF his best position

pf-smith/ williams/jones

c- oden/ pachulia/ wright (wright spends year in suit)

#2 pick

pg- miller/ law/ claxton/ johnson

sg- johnson/ stoudmire

sf- durant/ childress

pf- smith/ williams

c - pachulia/ jones/ wright

#3 pick

pg- law/ claxton/ johnson

sg- johnson/ stoudmire

sf- marvin/ childress

pf- smith/ williams

c - hibbert/ pachulia/ petro/ wright

hope that gets you through the day.

[Packfill]

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Seems like a reasonable request. Here's an offering that'll likely be viewed as a bit convoluted, but here goes.

It begins with the good fortune of us getting the 2nd pick (which we QUICKLY use to take Durant), and it includes a potential scenario where we also get the 5th, 12th, 21st, and 35th picks in the '07 draft, AND Camby.

So we select Durant, then package Marvin and Speedy to Seattle for the Sonics' 5th and 35th picks and Ridnour. Logic: Rashard's off to greener pastures, so an affordable/rising sf is greatly needed to replace Lewis (perfect fit for Marvin); Sonics wish to ship Ridnour as he's out-of-favor there (Speedy could go back to his back-up role behind Earl Watson at a slight decrease in cost to Sonics); Sonics also have 1st and 5th picks in 2nd round, and are already quite young. Hawks select Hibbert with 5th pick.

Hawks send 11th pick plus Childress to Philly for 12th and 21st picks (plus a 2nd round pick in '08). With the 12th pick we select Batum (as apprentice to JJ); with the 21st pick we select Crittenton (as apprentice to Ridnour). Batum will more than make up for the contributions we get from Chilz, and his upside is off the charts. Philly doesn't have a Chilz type player who can play multiple positions and add to team's overall basketball IQ. Philly is essentially getting Chilz for the 21st pick this year and a 2nd rounder in '08. We get a 19 year-old (Batum) whose game projects to be the JJ type, and a 19 year-old (Crittenton) 6'5" point guard who'll have an opportunity to learn the pro game behind Ridnour.

With the 35th pick we select the very athletic - and inconsistent - 6'8" Rey Terry (UNC) to work behind Durant.

We package AJ, Lo Wright, and our '08 2nd round pick to Denver for Camby because Denver will need to cut salary to get below or near the 'luxury tax' threshold, and because Denver will badly need a point guard for next season(Blake's likely off to Portland after the playoffs). Both AJ and Lo's salaries will fall off the balance sheet at the end of next season, which would be great for Denver.

Next season's roster therefore would include JJ, Durant, Hibbert, Smoove, Ridnour, Camby, Batum, Crittenton, Zaza, Solo, Rey Terry, Sheldon Williams, Salim, and Lue. Trade deadline deals should then be pursued for both Salim and Lue, as they're in the last year of their contracts.

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A couple of things:

1. There is no chance Seattle trades the 5th pick, 35th pick and Ridenour for just Marvin and Speedy. No chance whatsoever. they can easily get an equivalent prospect to Marvin with the 5th pick (i.e., Brewer, Green, Wright, etc.).

2. The Hawks really do not need another 19 year old developmental prospect (i.e., Batum) - especially if they have just drafted Durant. In fact, if the Hawks are lucky enough to get Durant then Childress is a good garbage guy off the bench.

3. Denver can easily get a better deal then Lo Wright and a second round pick for Camby. The Hawks can't afford Camby anyway.

Otherwise, I like it.

[DJlaysitup]

It is an interesting thought that if we got Durant (and BK is still high on Marvin) - we would have a SERIOUS bargaining chip there. We could use him for a variety of trades and maybe fill both the 1 and the 5 spot respectably.

Of course he would then promptly become the next Dr. J.

[newkid]

Good energy guys, thanks. Yes, we indeed would be sending Chilz along to Philly for the 21st pick in this really deep draft, and a 2nd rounder next year that could be inside of the top 35. I'm not convinced that's such a bad deal. Childress today seems the same player he was when he left college after 3 years, which means he's had 6 full post high school years to improve his body and his game. He hasn't and he likely won't. IMO he hasn't demonstrated a commitment to adding elements to his game each year, and I think GMs around the league recognize that. Doubt he'll fetch much more that a 21st and a 35th to 40th pick, and I don't think he should be re-signed by the Hawks.

The admittedly convoluted scenario I offered does indeed result in the overall age of the team moving slightly south. However, of those 8-10 players likely to play the lion's share of the minutes, Durant, Smoove, and Hibbert would be the youngest; the other young guns (e.g., Batum and Crittenton) would have the opportunity to learn from the bench while getting older. Not sure I have a problem with giving major minutes to a young Durant, a young Smoove (with already 3 years under his belt), and a not-so-young Hibbert (coming off the bench for Camby).

So some of you say Denver can 'easily' get more for a 33 year old Camby than my suggested offering of an experienced starting caliber pg with an expiring contract, a 30+ year old back-up post player with an expiring contract, a future 2nd rounder, AND luxury tax relief. Perhaps. I'd say you offer that package - and clearly point out its attributes - then negotiate after having received a Nuggets reaction. If I'm Denver I'm asking where else am I gonna find a single deal that'll fix my point guard problem, uncomplicate my rotations when Kmart returns next season, give me the opportunity to get a potentially talented (and cheap) player in next year's draft, AND help me save major $$$ immediately and substantially more down the road.

Oh, and I wouldn't be so quick to devalue the Sonics' estimation of Marvin's worth. Kid's got 2 full years under his belt, is a homer, and has shown a few signs of having turned the corner. Outside of Yi, who at the 5 spot in this year's draft would be more valuable to the Sonics than Marvin to immediately fill the void that Lewis will leave? And if it is to be Yi, how confident can the Sonics be that his professional basketball experience in China will immediately translate to something somewhat worthy of Lewis'? The Speedy/Ridnour swap is financially a dead heat, but offers the Sonics (and the Hawks) the opportunity to shed marginally valuable - and perhaps unwanted - pieces. So what's left in my scenario is the dangling Seattle pick at 35th position. Okay, then let's throw Salim into the deal and ask Seattle for the 31st pick instead of the 35th. That's even more to my liking.

[newkid]

By the way, here's the skinny on the kid Batum:

NBA Comparison: Joe Johnson

Strengths: Agile forward with size, an incredible wingspan, and great all around skills ... Has a natural feel for the game, and great physical attributes ... Competitive ... Team player, but also knows when to take over ... Clutch player. Shows the ability to raise his level of play in big games ... Makes his teammates better with his vision and ability to create ... Has a diverse offensive game with the ability to pull up off the dribble, hit from outside, and penetrate to the rim ... Shows a good stroke from outside, and excellent confidence to shoot through cold spells ... Has 3 point range ... Quick hands and feet, plus athleticism make him a potential lock down defender ... His foot speed and first step is very quick ... He has huge upside but needs to gain more experience ...

Weaknesses: Needs a lot of weight ... Right now he's at least 15-20 pounds below where he needs to be ... Getting stronger will allow him to go inside and finish as well as make him stronger defensively ... Must continue to develop and gain experience ... Must gain more defensive intensity ... Must prove himself on the senior level ...

Notes: One of the top prospects in his age group in Europe ... Led France to win the 2006 U18 Championships in Greece ... Won MVP of the 2006 Albert Schweitzer Tournament, leading France to first place ... Still just a kid, his face looks like he's even younger than his age ...

[BusBoyIsBack]

Anybody notice that ESPN lottery has us winning pretty darn frequently?

[thesheedera]

Yup, I've hit #1 as many times as I haven't.

[BusBoyIsBack]

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Yup, I've hit #1 as many times as I haven't.

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Maybe they are trying to get our hopes up or maybe this is some type of foreshadowing for the luckiest thing to ever happen to this franchise.