Nintendo Wii Hunting

[chillzatl]

oh absolutely! I've said all along that Sony has never had to face a competitor, in any of its markets, like Microsoft. Microsoft is unmatched when it comes to entering a market, learning it and then competing to win. It helps that they have the money to accept big losses the first generation or two (zune). The original xbox was their "learn the market" product and the 360 was their "compete to win" product. Basically everything that people had complained about for years with consoles, they sought to fix (bad dev tools, overly difficult architecture, etc), and it made all the difference.

The ps3 is now where it should have been a year ago. Honestly they would have been better off if they'd just delayed it until this holiday season. They could have spent that time polishing games (motorstorm, lair, etc) and launched with a legit list of really good games.

As it is they've got to make up for a year of nothing but bad press. It also doesn't help that it's still an overly complex system to develop for and has poor dev tools and to top it off, the system isn't any more powerful than the competition.

only time will tell, I certainly don't think they'll ever be the #1 console this generation.

[Plainview1981]

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sounds to me like you dropped the ball for not sending it in like you should. You can't really [censored] much when they give you a warranty that goes beyond anything in the electrnoics industry and you fail to use it.

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You know, I can except that. However, I tried to buy a new one twice and both times something went wrong with them and I had to take them back. That's what pissed me off the most. I got a a year and a half out of it... Which is longer than a lot of people got out of theirs from what I was reading on the Xbox forums.

[chillzatl]

dude send it in, it's under warranty. You're just cheating yourself. The problems with the things have been fixed, they'll put a new cooling system in it and you'll be right as rain.

[Dsinner]

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you would estimate 40% based on nothing tangible. Other armchair analysts have estimated 20-30%, but nobody knows for sure. In my circle of friends (and friends list) it's about 3%. I've had mine since launch and have had zero problems, but mine also sits in a cool, electronics friendly spot.

Of course they send a refurb. This is standard industry (electronics) practice and there's nothing wrong with it at all. I have a house full of refurb electronic components that saved me thousands of dollars vs. new and have worked perfectly for years. The problem with the 360's was the cooling system. It wasn't faulty components. The cooling system simply wasn't strong enough to handle situations where people placed it in a location without good cool air flow. For a while they were just sending out unmodified refurb units, because they didn't have a solution ready, but once they corrected the cooling system, which all new and recently repaird 360's have, the problems have practically disappeared. Beyond that, the system has a 3 year warranty, just in case, so it's a non issue to me. I bought it to play games and nothing on the market comes anywhere close to it in that respect.

It's not like the PS3 is flawless. The newer revisions are reporting much higher failure rates than the first model, but nobody knows what the % is for sure. I guess you don't remeber the ps2's year of DVD drive failures eh? It happens to every company eventually.

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Actually if you get the number of 360's sold, and then count the number of people in one message board (including multiple failures) you will see the "tangible" evidence. You're small sample of friends isn't exactly what I'd call tangible either. Not saying you don't have any friends, simply saying the XBOX message board provides a much larger sample size.

I keep mine in a very cool friendly place and still got the RROD. So have most people. It may be customary to send a refurb as a replacement, however if a consumer just spent $300 on a system and has to exchange it for one that's possibly been through 4 people's hand a consumer has every right to be upset. Customary or not it is bad business.

You may have a house full of refurbs but that is your choice. I choose not to have refurbs and pay a non-refurb price for a NEW electronic device. Not all the time, and when I pay for a refurb I don't mind having one. But if I am going to get a refurb in exchange I should also receive the difference in a new price and a refurb price. Not sure how you think there is nothing at all wrong with that.

The problem may have been with the cooling system but that is still faulty components. The cooling system does have components right? And it isn't that the consumer doesn't leave it in a system friendly atmosphere. Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm pretty sure it wasn't the cooling system anyway because Microsoft stated what the problem was and said they were now going to use a different brand of the faulty component. They admitted they used a cheap version of the component and it would to easily become overheated.

I remember the PS2 "problem". It had no where near the failure rate as the 360. Mine still works after about 8 years. Heck my PS1 still works after over 10. My NES still works, as does my super NES. See what I'm getting at?

Look, I'm not bashing the system as a whole. When it works, it is amazing. I'm simply warning people to give it some serious thought before purchasing a system simply based on amount of games. Which is something Sony is slowly catching up with anyway.

[chillzatl]

see, this is where it falls apart. A message board? I think we've proven here that message boards aren't an indicator of fact. People will say what they want to say, true or not, especially if they have an agenda. You say you keep yours in a cool place, "just as most people do". How do you know that? You don't know that at all, you're just saying that for the sake of what you have to say.

It doesn't bother me because I know how electronics work and it's rare that they fail, barring heat issues, once they're working. Chips rarely just die. So when a device is failing because of heat and the cooling system is replaced with a better one, the unit should function normally for years to come. The fact that it is a refurb, ie. a unit that has been inspected and had any questionable components replaced before sending it out, doesn't mean anything to me or most consumers. They're not just taking one guys dead 360 out of the box, putting it in another box and sending it out to some unsuspecting schlub. They replace what needs to replaced and then the system has to pass the same tests that a brand new one passes before it gets sent out.

The problem was the cooling system. The units have been compared and the only changes were a better, larger cooling system. Also newer 360's are built on a smaller, cooler running CPU, which only helps.

the PS2 drive failure rate was very high. You tell me that my circle of friends doesn't represent much, but then because you don't remember the ps2 failures being big and yours has worked, then it must not have been high. I don't say this to suggest the ps2 was faulty, I'm just saying that it's not unheard of for products like these to have issues and Sony certainly isn't immune to them. Also, the originaly NES has a pretty high long term failure rate. Don't you remember blowing on those carts?

And i'm telling people that it's not a big deal. If you're buying a new one, the problems have been corrected and "just in case" the unit still has a 3 year warranty. Nobody likes having something they purchase fail, but it's nice when a company admits to a problem, fixes it and gives its customers a little extra assurance by extending the products warranty well beyond the limits of ANY electronics components on the market.

The ps3 isn't catching up. There are more exclusives for the 360 and many of the cross-platform games end up coming out on the ps3 weeks or months later than the 360 versions while also performing or looking "less" than their 360 counterparts.

My only point is that the 360 failure rates are simply overstated. Beyond that, the issues behind them have been corrected. The sales numbers support the notion that consumers aren't scared off and rightfully so. The 360 nearly doubled the ps3's sales, yet again, last month.

[AHF]

Roughly what are the monthly numbers on the three systems at this point?

[Yubs]

The Wii leads all consoles in the three major markets: Japan, U.S., and Europe. Between the PS3 and Xbox360, the 360 has a sizable lead in the U.S. over the PS3, while the PS3 has a sizeable lead over the 360 in Japan. The 360 currently leads the PS3 in Europe, but recent sales figures indicate the PS3 is gaining incredible momentum and steam in that market, thanks to the price cuts they introduced there.

[Dsinner]

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see, this is where it falls apart. A message board? I think we've proven here that message boards aren't an indicator of fact. People will say what they want to say, true or not, especially if they have an agenda.

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I find it hard to believe that anyone who just payed big money for an xbox would have an agenda aganst Microsoft. So now you're saying there really isn't a problem simply because people were complaining on a message board? You've already admitted some experts believe the failure rate is at least 30%. But now you won't believe it's an extra 10% simply because people are complaining about it on a messageboard?

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It doesn't bother me because I know how electronics work and it's rare that they fail, barring heat issues, once they're working.

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Now you're arguing for the sake of arguing. Microsoft already admitted they had component issues and that it was overheating because it is a faulty machine (which is why they extended the warranty). We aren't talking about electronics in general, we are talking about the 360. Why on earth would they up the warrenty time if it was simply the gamers fault?

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Chips rarely just die. So when a device is failing because of heat and the cooling system is replaced with a better one, the unit should function normally for years to come.

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The problem is people aren't simply getting a refurb and the problem is fixed. Alot of people are going through 3 even 4 machines with this problem. After the original, they then go through 3 more refurbs. Again, you seem to be speaking about electronics and refurbs in general. I'm only talking about the Microsoft Xbox 360. Let's keep the discussion centered on that.

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The fact that it is a refurb, ie. a unit that has been inspected and had any questionable components replaced before sending it out, doesn't mean anything to me or most consumers. They're not just taking one guys dead 360 out of the box, putting it in another box and sending it out to some unsuspecting schlub. They replace what needs to replaced and then the system has to pass the same tests that a brand new one passes before it gets sent out.

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I understand the process I've gone through it twice now. So from first hand experience I know that this refurb that was tested is no better than the one I sent in for repair. Unfortunatly it's the same test that the original machine passed. So now your saying that since it passed this test it'll work now even though it passed the same test before and then overheated? Maybe they should tighten up their testing procedure.

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The problem was the cooling system. The units have been compared and the only changes were a better, larger cooling system. Also newer 360's are built on a smaller, cooler running CPU, which only helps.

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So which is it? Is it the machine or the gamer? I don't care if it's the processor, the hard drive, or the cooling system. It is a faulty machine that they are still struggling to correct.

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the PS2 drive failure rate was very high. You tell me that my circle of friends doesn't represent much, but then because you don't remember the ps2 failures being big and yours has worked, then it must not have been high. I don't say this to suggest the ps2 was faulty, I'm just saying that it's not unheard of for products like these to have issues and Sony certainly isn't immune to them. Also, the originaly NES has a pretty high long term failure rate. Don't you remember blowing on those carts?

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I actually mastered the cartidge blow. I learned that if you actually make a high pitched scream while blowing it usually worked. I realize that no machine is immune to problems however, Microsoft has been very slow to really correct their issue. They've bandaided it, but have yet to really solve it.

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And i'm telling people that it's not a big deal. If you're buying a new one, the problems have been corrected and "just in case" the unit still has a 3 year warranty. Nobody likes having something they purchase fail, but it's nice when a company admits to a problem, fixes it and gives its customers a little extra assurance by extending the products warranty well beyond the limits of ANY electronics components on the market.

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It's easy for you to say "it's no big deal" because you have yet to go through it(and hopefully never will). I do appreciate the 3 year warranty, but the warranty starts from the original purchase. By the time you're on your 4th refurb it is highly possible that your 3 year warranty is almost up. If system I'm on now goes out, by the time I get it back my 3 year warranty will be extremely close to expiring. Do you think it is still OK for me not to be able to be compensated if I go through that many systems when It is an admiited system problem? Again the issue, it is bandaided, but not fixed. And new systems, if you aren't purchasing the elite, are still having issues.

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The ps3 isn't catching up. There are more exclusives for the 360 and many of the cross-platform games end up coming out on the ps3 weeks or months later than the 360 versions while also performing or looking "less" than their 360 counterparts.

My only point is that the 360 failure rates are simply overstated. Beyond that, the issues behind them have been corrected. The sales numbers support the notion that consumers aren't scared off and rightfully so. The 360 nearly doubled the ps3's sales, yet again, last month.

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We'll just have to agree to disagree as I don't think they are overstated. Sales numbers only support the notion that, as you stated in the previous paragraph, it's more the PS3 games sucking than Microsoft having a reliable machine.

Again, If I had a good experience with my 360 I would never even consider the PS3. But after a while, it gets old sending back system after system. Had I had the luck of having the experience you've had (which is what I was hoping for) I'd be sitting on your side of this discussion so I can't blame you for your thoughts on the Microsoft-Sony War.

Regardless you are a gamer, and I respect that to the fullest so please don't take anything I've said in this thread too personal. I know I can be read as being a little bit of an ass sometimes. My wife says I can sound like that too.

[AHF]

Just as an update, I barely made the cut at our local Best Buy this morning. I was out there a little before 5:30 a.m. and there were already about 30 people in line. I talked to one of the employees the day before and was told they would have 21 machines. I figured I was already up so I just would hope they had a few extra. They did and I finally got a ticket for a Wii a few minutes past 7:00.

I would have been ticked if I hadn't made the cut and am pretty happy about not paying the exorbinant prices I was seeing on ebay.

Thanks for all the advice!

[chillzatl]

actually the Wii is still several million units behind the 360 in the US. The ps3 only leads the 360 in Japan. It lags behind the 360 by 50% or more in Europe and the US.

[chillzatl]

for november in the US:

Wii - 950k

360 - 770k

PS2 - 470k

PS3 - 440k

That's just hardware units, not software or anything related. I didn't include the Nintendo DS, as it was the big winner with over 1mil sold.

[AHF]

The PS2 is still outselling the PS3? Wow. That is rough.

[chillzatl]

I'm going to lump my replies to the first 3 or 4 responses into one, since they all apply.

I'm not sure when you last had to send your console in for repair, but the problems have been corrected and by all reports (or lack of) the issues have been solved by the new cooling system. For a while they were just refurbing systems and sending them out without anything "new" done to them simply becuase they didn't have a fix ready. That is not the case now or with new systems. This was a hot button issue for a few months there but since the new cooling system has been applied I haven't seen anything mentioned about it on any of the handful of gaming sites I frequent. I can only credit that to the cooling system fixing the problem as intended.

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It's easy for you to say "it's no big deal" because you have yet to go through it(and hopefully never will). I do appreciate the 3 year warranty, but the warranty starts from the original purchase. By the time you're on your 4th refurb it is highly possible that your 3 year warranty is almost up. If system I'm on now goes out, by the time I get it back my 3 year warranty will be extremely close to expiring. Do you think it is still OK for me not to be able to be compensated if I go through that many systems when It is an admiited system problem? Again the issue, it is bandaided, but not fixed. And new systems, if you aren't purchasing the elite, are still having issues.

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The system has a three year warranty and has only been on the market for two, so worst case you still have one year left on your warranty.

naturally there were systems already on the shelves that didn't have the new cooling system, but all new shipments (arcade, premium, elite and halo3 SE) have the improved cooling system. Also newer units are shipping with the .45nm processors which run cooler was well, which only helps. The original elites were identical to previous models with the exception of HDMI. They didn't use the new processor.

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Regardless you are a gamer, and I respect that to the fullest so please don't take anything I've said in this thread too personal. I know I can be read as being a little bit of an ass sometimes. My wife says I can sound like that too.

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No worries man. You said nothing for me to take personally. I have similar discussions with gamer friends all the time and we have yet to come to blows.

[drzachary]

Wow, didn't realize the DS was doing so well!

I love mine so very much. I wish I had more hours in the day to play even more videogames.