We need to consider a trade of SAR or Nazr.

[Diesel]

Nazr has value.

SAR has value and under contract for 2 more years.

It's a shame that this is a year whereby we are awaiting a change in ownership.

This is like a very pivotal moment for our franchise. There's JT's contract and there's what to do with SAR. As far as I'm concerned, if we are going to trade SAR, the time is now. If we wait, it will never happen. He has a contract of about 14 million now. IF he is not traded, in 2 years, we will have to pay him a whole lot. I like him, but he's not worth that much Cap space to me. Not what he's making now, but what he will be asking for in 2 years.

I'm sure that there are some teams with Interest... But I don't know if anyone would dare put out a fair deal.

Right away, I would take a superstar for SAR easily.

Here's a thought....

What about SAR for Kobe.

Before you laugh... Think about it. Kobe didn't sign an extension with the Lakers. His intent is clear. At the end of this year, he wants to test the FA waters. Mainly, I can believe that he wants to get out of Shaq daddy's shawdow and Carry a team. Also, history suggests that he wants to rival Labron James. With that in mind, maybe His plan is to play for Memphis.

If you are the Lakers, why wait? Get some more talent in LAL to play with Shaq Daddy before you HAVE to pick and Choose from what Memphis has to offer. That brings an interesting deal to Atlanta. We can broker a deal with Memphis that can help Kobe in the Long run, help the Lakers now and get us a mass of usable talent.

So here's the deal:

Shareef/Grob to the Lakers.

Kobe/Horry(SNT)/Walker(SNT) to Memphis.

Swift/Battier/Lo/Knight/Miller to Atlanta.

In LAL...

Shaq/SAR/George/Rush/Fisher.

IN Memphis....

Walker/Gasol/Persons/Kobe/Williams.

In Atlanta.....

JT/Miller/Battier/Lo/Theo.....

There's also a need to trade Nazr.

He has value.

Maybe to Portland for Anderson in a perfect world.

[DJ_Money]

In reply to:

---

Right away, I would take a superstar for SAR easily.

---

Uh...that's a no brainer. Unfortunately, you're going to have a hard time finding a team willing to give up a superstar for SAR.

L.A. is not going to trade Kobe, period.

[cyman3]

i would trade SAR/GROB for KOBE/ANYTHING... i dont care.

if it was only that easy diesel...

[HawkTodd]

The Lakers are not trading argubly the best player in the game.

[Diesel]

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/6031759.htm

Interesting would be:

SAR, Nazr, Big Dog for Shaq?

Shaq/Theo/DJ/Glover/JT.

Really, it would be some Draft pick at SF, Some FA at SG...

[Traceman]

I wouldn't even require getting a superstar in return, a potential superstar and a quality player would be enough for me. If the Wizards are ready to give up on Kwame and if they are ready to part ways with Stack, I have a proposal for them. I'd send Reef/#21/filler (Crawford) for Brown/Stack/filler (White or Laettner) in a heartbeat. I'd also do Reef/#21/filler (Crawford) for Brown/Hughes/#10/filler (White or Laettner).

Theo/Nazr/White

Brown/Hendu

Dog/DJ

Stack/DG

JT/DD/vet PG

or

Theo/Nazr/White

Brown/Hendu

Dog/DJ

Hughes/DG (or vice versa)

JT/DD

Best available at #10 (Wade, Pietrus, Hayes, Lampe, etc)

It would be interesting to say the least to see Dog and Stack battle to see who could get the most shots up but if they play together, Dog, JT and Stack should put up points in bunches. On the interior, Theo and Kwame should be a much more formidable duo defensively. When we want to run (or defend), DJ comes in and Dog goes to the bench. I think that would be a fun team to watch and even if it doesn't work, Stack, Theo, Dog, Hendu and White would all be coming off the books in 05/06 anyway.

I don't know if Washington has given up on Kwame yet but they could field a solid team if they made this deal.

Haywood/Thomas

Reef/Laettner

Jefferies/

Hughes/#10 (Wade, Pietrus or Hayes)

Dixon/vet PG/#21 (Gaines or Barbosa)

or

Haywood/Thomas

Reef/Laettner

Jefferies

Stack

Dixon/vet PG/#21 (Gaines or Barbosa)

Would anyone else do such a deal?

[Playmaker0017]

I'm still confused at the desire to trade Shareef. The ONLY player worth keeping on the starting roster at almost any cost.

Big Dog is just worthless. If he isn't gone, then any hope for the Atlanta franchise leaves instead.

Terry is just confused.

Theo would be another to keep, but he is too injury prone.

Dion thinks he's the next MJ, and has very little talent.

Ira talks too much. He hasn't performed well in a year.

Play.

[Guest]

I know I've posted this in the past...but why do y'all consider Theo "injury prone"? Yes, he had the hip problem, just like many hockey players have, and that's why he went to the specialist, to get it fixed...and it seems to ahve worked and not slowed him a bit, despite his early claims that he'll "never be his old self"...it certainly didn't show as he managed to lead the L in blocks after recieving only limited pt during the first few months of the season due to a) recovery, b) getting his timing back, c) along with the timing, getting in a lot of early foul trouble that caused his removal from the game, thus limiting minutes. He overcame all of that.

The Philly injury - broken scaphoid bone (in the hand/wrist). Most commonly broken bone in the human body in the general population. Not exactly something worth the label of injury prone...[censored], Martin broke the same leg twice in consecutive seasons and he's not labeled as such

[Traceman]

Obviously I would trade Dog/#21 for Stackhouse and Brown but something tells me the Wizards would laugh in our faces. Same goes for Theo, JT or anyone else on our roster. Reef has more trade value than any other player on team without question. I certainly wouldn't give Reef away and I wouldn't even trade him for salary cap space and a lottery pick as I would for Dog. But, if I could get a former #1 overall pick in Brown and a former All Star in Stack for Reef and #21, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

It still amazes me how much everyone wants to blame Dog for this team's poor play. Everyone can see Dog's flaws but we KNEW what those flaws were when we acquired him. He plays the EXACT same way that he played in Milwaukee. The difference in the results are every bit as much about the players around him as they are about anything he is doing. He was brought here to take pressure off Reef on the offensive end and he did that. Reef had a better statistical season in a lot of ways playing alongside Dog than he did his first year here. Specifically, his shooting % was SIGNIFICANTLY higher 46% to 48% and he turned it over a lot less.

What I want to know though is what exactly has Reef EVER done that makes him "the ONLY player worth keeping on the starting roster at almost any cost?" He has NEVER played on a team that won more games than we won last year. All he has done to the point is put up good numbers on not bad but PATHETIC teams.

I think he is a very good player and he can be Robin to someone's Batman on a very good team. However, I simply don't think he is good enough to be the BEST player on a championship team. Therefore, I don't see him worth keeping at almost any cost.

I'd love to keep Reef around if we can a

[Playmaker0017]

Weaseldom,

Maybe injury prone is a poor choice of words. He is a basketball player, and as such - should NOT be compared to a hockey player.

Basketball players will sit out due to a hang nail, while hockey players will go out with broken toes and a snapped jaw.

BBallers, despite the thuggish bravado, are a pathetic subset of men when it comes to withstanding physical pain.

Thus, I see any one of them that has a serious injury like a bum hip, that has constantly been sidelined, as a likely candidate to see the bench AGAIN.

I love Theo. I think he is the second best player on the team. But, I think he will reinjure himself or a pain will crop up that sidelines him.

Play.

[Playmaker0017]

Traceman,

I think it is unfair to say that Reef has been unable to win games.

It takes a TEAM. And it takes a system.

Niether of which Reef has had around him.

He was thrust into Vancouver alongside a pathetic bunch of players.

I don't think any player could win with that line-up and system. TD and KG included. At least those two weren't asked to produce until later in their careers.

What Reef has done, is find a way to produce - despite being triple teamed. Whether this is because he is so obvious on offense or whether it is because he is on a poor team ... he is the only player who gets it CONSTANTLY. And he still produces. I'd love to see talent around him, that takes pressure away and allows him some easy shots.

As for Big Dog -- I had NO idea his flaws were this big. I mean, I assumed the guy could dribble the ball. I think that is a logical assumption of a basketball player. I wouldn't attribute Reef's increased statistical performance to Big Dog's presence as much as I would the hard work Reef puts in during the off-season.

Play.

[Guest]

With regards to the hockey player sidenote: Theo's hip injury was freakish for an NBA player, almost unheard of...however, it's a somewhat commonplace injury amongst hockey players, thus Theo's going to Canada to work with the hip rehab guru (who, incidentally, requires an interview before accepting to treat a person, much like Grover does in Chicago). Theo passed the test and seemingly came out of rehab more or less fixed. That's what I was stating, that the injury is not a freak in every sport and has been overcome in the past.

On to other topics. Talk of trading for Stackhouse, someone that Washington apparently really wants to dump (cause he's not going to opt out of his contract)...

how about this:

Atlanta trades: SF Glenn Robinson (20.8 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 3.0 apg in 37.5 minutes)

C Nazr Mohammed (4.6 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 0.2 apg in 12.8 minutes)

Atlanta receives: SG Jerry Stackhouse (21.5 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 4.5 apg in 39.3 minutes)

C Jahidi White (4.2 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 0.1 apg in 14.4 minutes)

PF Etan Thomas (4.8 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 0.1 apg in 13.5 minutes)

Change in team outlook: +5.1 ppg, +2.3 rpg, and +1.5 apg.

Washington trades: SG Jerry Stackhouse (21.5 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 4.5 apg in 39.3 minutes)

C Jahidi White (4.2 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 0.1 apg in 14.4 minutes)

PF Etan Thomas (4.8 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 0.1 apg in 13.5 minutes)

Washington receives: SF Glenn Robinson (20.8 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 3.0 apg in 69 games)

C Nazr Mohammed (4.6 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 0.2 apg in 35 games)

Change in team outlook: -5.1 ppg, -2.3 rpg, and -1.5 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Atlanta and Washington being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Atlanta and Washington had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement

That works even with Jahidi's trade kicker (which could be waved, but I have no idea how much it's for. We could throw in a second round pick or two, or perhaps DD as they're in need of a bu pg right now. The only concern really comes as to whether or not they want to try and start Jefferies this season...recall he got hurt last season so was really a non-factor for pt for a large portion of the season. I'm not sure how he was doing prior to that, thus I don't know if they plan on starting him.

PS - You could swap Jahidi for Laettner I suppose...I'd rather have Jahidi, but it's not that big of a deal. It's basically a deal for Stack. Resign Ira, play Stack at the two or three...gives us a lot of options, and again, someone who wants to be the leader on the court (much like Jalen Rose...not sure if eitehr should be the "man," but with enough support around them...yo uget the picture).

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

I'm still confused at the desire to trade Shareef. The ONLY player worth keeping on the starting roster at almost any cost.

---

Well, it's not a panic to trade SAR, it just has some logic to it. Reef is a young player. He's making about 14 million now and in 2 summers we will be fighting for him because he will be a FA. The way we keep him is sign him to an extension. That means paying him possibly KG money in the future. IS he worth KG money? If he makes it to FA, we probably won't be able to afford him.

Right now, he's at his peak talentwise. WE should probably trade him while we can get a good player in return.

Trace has brought up some interesting trades... I don't think any of them have good Salary matches. BUT....

What about SAR to Miami for Grant/#5.

Then taking Wade or Pietrus.

I know about Grant's contract but that's all the more reason Miami deals the #5. If you ask RIley, I bet he'd rather take Steve Blake at 53 than take TJ Ford at 5.

What About SAR/JT(SNT) to NY for Houston/#9/Ward/Williams.

With #9, why not gamble and go with Malick Badiane

I mean.... Williams/Houston/Grob/Badiane/Theo....

We've set a table with that squad.

What about.....

SAR/#21 to Orlando for Hill/Gooden/#15.

Hill is set to retire. We get that money back.

Gooden is probably going to be better than SAR in the future.

#15 gives us a shot at some good talent.

I mean, we can't be single minded.

[Playmaker0017]

Diesel,

I think you underestimate Reef's loyalty.

I think he is that rare player, that would stay in a situation just because he feels it is the honorable thing to do. Plus, he is an Atlanta boy, his mom and dad are nearby.

I think Reef would stay in Atlanta.

I think he is the type of guy that would take a salary hit, if it meant signing another good player.

I may be overestimating him, but he seems to have that attitude.

Play.

[Traceman]

and KG are by a LOT. You give us Duncan or KG instead of Reef and we are DEFINITELY in the playoffs and MAYBE in the Finals.

Theo

Duncan

Dog

Glove

JT

That lineup is every bit as good as the starting lineup San Antonio put on the floor last night. Actually, I think its better.

Theo vs D Rob - Theo now.

Duncan vs Duncan - even

Dog vs Bowen - Dog (whether you guys will admit it or not)

Glove vs Jackson - Slight edge to Jackson overall

JT vs Parker - Give me JT all day

San Antonio clearly has a better bench but the EC is a lot weaker than the WC they won.

I think KG would have the same effect as Duncan in place of Reef and in fact, KG might fit better because of his ballhandling/distribution skills.

Reef DID get easier shots last year compared to the ones he got his first year here. He was still doubled quite often but not nearly as much as the previous year and he didn't get beat up physically as much as he did that first year either. All of that was reflected in a significantly higher shooting percentage.

Reef had 2 guys in the starting lineup with him who are proven 20 ppg scorers in this league. On the otherhand, Duncan had only Robinson who has scored 20 ppg in an NBA season and that was more than 5 years ago!

As for Dog, he has NEVER been a good ballhandler. He wasn't in Milwaukee and he wasn't in college. His midrange jumper and his ability to score are the reasons he has been an All Star.

[Playmaker0017]

TD and KG ... NOW, would definately be a boost.

TD and KG when they first entered the league, would not.

They were not asked to shoulder the team, as Reef was.

As for the line-up comparison... first, I think you over value a lot of our team. Second, it isn't just playing skill ... if it was, explain to me how TEAM USA got trampled?

There is no system, and everyone on our team wants to be a star instead of a role player ... except for our star ... he wants to be a role player.

Play.

[Traceman]

Atlanta trades: PF Chris Crawford (4.8 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 0.2 apg in 7.6 minutes)

PF Shareef Abdur-Rahim (19.9 ppg, 8.4 rpg, 3.0 apg in 38.1 minutes)

Atlanta receives: PF Kwame Brown (7.4 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 0.7 apg in 22.2 minutes)

PF Christian Laettner (8.3 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 3.1 apg in 29.2 minutes)

SG Jerry Stackhouse (21.5 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 4.5 apg in 39.3 minutes)

Change in team outlook: +12.5 ppg, +5.8 rpg, and +5.1 apg.

Washington trades: PF Kwame Brown (7.4 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 0.7 apg in 22.2 minutes)

PF Christian Laettner (8.3 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 3.1 apg in 29.2 minutes)

SG Jerry Stackhouse (21.5 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 4.5 apg in 39.3 minutes)

Washington receives: PF Chris Crawford (4.8 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 0.2 apg in 5 games)

PF Shareef Abdur-Rahim (19.9 ppg, 8.4 rpg, 3.0 apg in 81 games)

Change in team outlook: -12.5 ppg, -5.8 rpg, and -5.1 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Atlanta and Washington being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Atlanta and Washington had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I rarely if ever post a trade proposal unless I check it at Real GM.

As for your Miami proposal, I'd rather take Jones off Miami's hands than Grant and then take Bosh, Lampe, Podkolzine or another big man at #5.

Surely that NY proposal was a joke. You would actually take Houston's ridiculous contract AND give up Reef to get it? That's basically what you're saying. [censored], I wouldn't even trade JT for Williams/Ward/#9.

[Traceman]

TD DID shoulder the load as a rookie. Robinson was a lot better then than he is now but that was Duncan's team.

As for KG, I agree 100% but my point was about this past season. I'm not talking about Reef as a rookie. I'm talking about Reef NOW.

I also agree with you 100% that it is not all about playing skill. In fact, I think that is what was wrong with our team this year - the pieces did not fit. SA has an identity, the play tenacious D and run their offense through Duncan. On the otherhand, we had no identity. Still, Duncan's great skill dictated what their identity would be and while Reef is skilled, Duncan is on a whole different level.

[Playmaker0017]

Traceman,

TD helped the team to the title. But had a VERY solid team around him and David Robinson to help ease him into the slot. He wasn't thrust into it.

I think system is a MAJOR part of it. But, my point about TD and KG was mainly that they were allowed to develop and be mentored into the limelight. Reef was thrust into it. Who was he going to draw off of? Big Country? Anthony Peeler?

No. He was put in a bad situation and called on to do too much and when he couldn't deliver, it was detrimental to his confidence.

It is like a QB who starts as a rookie. They often freak out and never regain their composure -- for their careers. They need to be brought in slowly.

It is part excuse, but part truth. Grant me that! I mean, Reef did things in college that no one else has ever done. Reef would have SHATTERED records in college if he stayed. It isn't like he didn't know how to lead teams or win, it is that he lost contact with that part of him. He needs someone who can bring him back, if it isn't too late.

Play.