Going after big dog????

[thecampster]

Just a question guys. I would consider myself a basketball guy, but don't bother myself with the salary cap or details of this.

But one thing is sticking in my mind. Milwaukee wants to trade Glenn Robinson. They're looking for a more balanced offensive game and feel they've got too many shooters and not enough inside. They're tired of him and would probably believe in addition by subtraction. We need to dump a player or two.

Would Glover + Hendu + Nazr and 1st rounder get em? Just wondering. I think the math is close on this one.

That'd give us a lineup of:

JT - DJ - Robinson - SAR - Ratliff

DD - Newble - Kukoc - Crawford - Leon Smith as backups

Hanno and email as bench warmers.

any tweaking?

So the deal would be:

Dion Glover, Alan Henderson, Nazr Mohammed and a conditional 1st rounder

4

Glen Robinsion

Someone look up the salaries if you can?

[Guest]

If we wanted Big Dog from Milwaukee... Using Nazr as bait..

It would probably be Nazr/Toni for Big Dog/another player... Maybe redd or somebody cheap.

However, one trade that I have mentioned before is:

Theo/CC for Big Dog/Pryz.

Even though Glover works better in this trade as opposed to CC, Big Dog's stock is dropping quickly.

I think our need for a scorer is much higher than our need for a shot blocker. Because in the end, what good is a shot blocker going to do if any team can shut you down??

[Traceman]

Atlanta trades: PF Alan Henderson (5.5 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 0.4 apg in 16.2 minutes)

C Nazr Mohammed (9.7 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 0.4 apg in 26.4 minutes)

SF Dion Glover (8.9 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 1.5 apg in 21.0 minutes)

Atlanta receives: SF Glenn Robinson (20.7 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 2.5 apg in 35.5 minutes)

Change in team outlook: -3.4 ppg, -8.5 rpg, and +0.2 apg.

Milwaukee trades: SF Glenn Robinson (20.7 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 2.5 apg in 35.5 minutes)

Milwaukee receives: PF Alan Henderson (5.5 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 0.4 apg in 26 games)

C Nazr Mohammed (9.7 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 0.4 apg in 82 games)

SF Dion Glover (8.9 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 1.5 apg in 55 games)

Change in team outlook: +3.4 ppg, +8.5 rpg, and -0.2 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

There were BYC players involved in this trade, so this trade is subject to the BYC provisions of the CBA. Due to Atlanta and Milwaukee being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Atlanta and Milwaukee had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out unless trade exceptions were used for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

The Campster's trade not only works, it is a FAR better proposal for us than your proposal. FAR better. If I were Milwaukee though, I'd rather have Kukoc than Hendu (Nazr/Kukoc/Glover for Big Dog). The trade would probably still work (or it would with a slight modification here or there) and it would probably be more to Milwaukee's liking.

[Guest]

Just wondering. Would you rather have Mike Miller or Glen Robinson since the Bucks and Magic may be interested in centers this off season.

Robinson is better now. He has one of the best mid range games today but I think he is going on 30 and can only play one position, sf.

Miller is between 23-24, and can play both the 2 and 3. His mid range game isn't too shabby either.

I think Robinson holds the ball too much and would make the teams {already bad} ball movement worse. He is also used to taking alot of shots. Miller on the other hand is not used to being the #1 option, therefore making him fit more easily into the 3rd option position of the offense, so he would not screw with the fragile thing called chemistry.

You can tell I prefer Miller, but what do tou guys think ?

[Traceman]

Big Dog would be fine with me (for the right price) but I'd PREFER Miller. I think Mike is still improving and I think the fact that he is so much younger than Big Dog is very important. I don't think he has quite the midrange jumper that Big Dog does and he's not as good an offensive player as Big Dog is (at least not yet), but I think he will definitely end up being a better all around player and more importantly, I think he's a better fit for this team.

[Guest]

Nazr's making 5.0 million this yr.

Glover about ~1.0 million

Hendu = 6.5 Million ...

So in estimate, the three of them are making about in excess of 12.5 million dollars.

Big Dog makes the exact same money as Theo... Climbing up close to 10 million this yr.

Plus...

Both the Hawks and the Bucks are at the cap. The bucks are over it. SO the money would have to be 100,000 within 15%.

THE MATH IS OFF.

[thecampster]

Actually, the 3 of them are making 12.2 million combined (check insidehoops.com) this year. Robinson will make right at 10 mil. So the deal is about 1.2 million apart.

So Milwaukee throws in a scrub at 1.5 ish million or a player at 3.5 million or less (ala Greg Anthony) and this could work.

We could throw in a 2nd rounder to sweeten if necessary.

I'd do it to free us of the long term ramifications of Hendu's salary.

Robinson could be tradable in 2 years...Hendu will be untradable and Milwaukee would go for it. With Terry moving to the point, this gives us the extra scoring option needed and more importantly, keeps defenses from collapsing on SAR.

They'd have to respect Glen's outside game.

As for Miller....good question. He's a smart team player but I don't see him sticking around long. He'll command salary later and we won't be able to keep him around and JT and SAR. Numbers game.

The veteran is already locked in long term (B dog). His salary won't seem as big by the time his contract runs out, but Miller may command alot in 2 years.

[Traceman]

a deal can certainly be worked out including Nazr, Hendu and Dion for Big Dog/filler. All Milwaukee would have to do is add a player(s) in to make the salaries match (Pryz, etc.).

Actually, I think Glover is going to make around $1.5 million this year, Hendu is going to make around $7 million and Nazr is going to make $4.75 million. Big Dog is going to make around $9.8 million. Pryzbilla's $1.9 million in addition to Big Dog's salary would be enough to put the salaries within the required range.

[Guest]

What's in it for Milwaukee??

They get nothing they need from this trade.

They need better interior defense.

.

Don't think because Big Dog is on the blocks that they will take any long term contract that we want to give them.

That's why Theo/CC for Big Dog/Pryz works so perfectly for us and them. We all get what we need.

[Traceman]

This is so illogical that I can't even begin to fathom where you are coming from. They are already better on the perimeter with the Big 3 than we would be if we did your proposed deal (Cassell/Allen/Big Dog is better than JT/DJ/Big Dog). If its not good enough for them, why would it be good enough for us? SAR might be better than Mason but he's not as good of an interior defender as Mason. Our interior D would be horrible and Big Dog would make the rest of our D horrible. Milwaukee can keep him if it means giving up Theo, SAR or JT.

As for what Milwaukee gets in the deal, they get the same thing we would be left with at Center, Nazr Mohammed. If he's not good enough for them, why should he be good enough for us? Nazr/Mason/Thomas/Allen/Cassell would be better than what they have now. Nazr is not a good shotblocker but he's a good rebounder and he can score around 10 ppg. That's far better than what they have at Center now. Besides, I'm certainly not interested in trading a shotblocker like Theo to a division rival and then having to watch him throw SAR's shots out of the arena. You know SAR gets his shot blocked more than anyone as it is.

[Diesel]

Getting Mason was the downfall to that team... I told you nonbelievers that last yr when they got him. They didn't have a low post presence. Mason likes to handle the ball too much and thats his game... Well, it doesn't help Allen, Cassell, and Big dog any because it: 1. Take away their shots.

[Traceman]

If the Big 3 had trouble sharing the ball with Mason, don't you think the same problem would arise with shots here if we acquired Big Dog? I mean Reef is our go to guy while Mason was Milwaukee's 4th option. How would big Dog react having to share the ball with Reef and JT? God forbid Glover started with that group, there definitely wouldn't be enough shots to go around. Big Dog would stay pissed the whole game!

I wouldn't give a damn about them fighting for shot attempts as long as we had some D on the floor, particularly on the interior. That's why I wouldn't mind having Big Dog as long as we still had Theo. Nazr/SAR/Big Dog/Glove/JT would be horrible defensively. HORRIBLE!

[Guest]

In reply to:

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the Big 3 had trouble sharing the ball with Mason, don't you think the same problem would arise with shots here if we acquired Big Dog?

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Look at the attempts:

Allen - 1,148

Cassell - 1,197

Robinson - 1,147

Thomas - 743

Mason - 626

IN ATL....

SAR - 1,297

JT - 1,219

Nazr - 713

Point is that we don't have ballhandlers who have to take all the shots. That's the problem that plagued Milwaukee from last yr to this yr. They were already a team that was sitting on the edge. Getting rid of a utility player like Williams and getting a guy who has to have the ball in his hands really hurt their balance.

While JT and SAR put up a lot of shots, I am sure that they both would make way for Big Dog were we to get him. Reason being is that our team is in need of a third offensive threat. Nazr taking 713 shots is part of why we lose so much. He's not an offensive player but sometimes he is forced to be.

[Traceman]

Your breakdown of shot attempts CLEARLY illustrate my point! Mason took fewer shots than Nazr Mohammed, he CLEARLY wasn't a factor when it came to who was getting too many shots. Mason obviously didn't have the ball in his hands all that much and when he did get it, he passed it a lot more than he shot it.

What does "we don't have ballhandlers who have to take all the shots" mean? Mason obviously didn't take all the shots if that's what you are implying and JT took more shots than Cassell at PG. What is your point?