Diesel's ten overrated people in Sports...

[dlpin]

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Actually, Jordan was competing against the 8th seeds in the East and losing at this age. At least Lebron made the NBA finals last year. Reasonable minds can disagree on an age-specific comparison. Jordan was thought to be a stats hog who put up numbers without winning anything at this point in his career.

On one hand, if we look at Lebron's age we are certainly impressed with his game. But on the other, he is already in his 5th year in the league. When Jordan was 23, he was in his second year in the league. In any case, the ceiling is what matters, and I dont think Lebron has progressed enough. MJ was always a competitor, always working on his game in the off season, and by his 5th season he was already an MVP (beating Bird and Magic during their best season). Lebron has had the same glaring holes in his game for his entire career, which makes me wonder if he is able or willing to work on them. No post up game and terrible jump shooter.

And still, I am sorry, but his first 5 seasons compares favorably to Lebron's. People seem to forget how special Jordan was. He average 28 ppg on 51% shooting as a rookie. And all of this in an era that was much, MUCH, less SG friendly. He scored 28 ppg in a time when there was no hand check rule, no defensive 3 seconds violation rule. Just compare their FT totals: Jordan only shot more than 700 free throws 4 seasons out of his 19 seaons, Lebron has shot more than 700 for the past three seasons.

And you are mistaken, but Jordan wasnt competing against the 8th seeds at his age. At 23, Jordan missed almost the entire season, saw his team make the playoffs AS the 8th seed, and scored 63 points against probably the greatest celtics team of all time. MJs teams were bounced in the playoffs in 85 by the bucks (bulls were 7th seed), 86 and 87 by the celtics, 88 in the second round by detroit and 89 in the conference finals by detroit. Much better teams than any that Lebron has beaten.

And comparing MJ's shooting % and turn overs per game, he did better than Lebron, which means that the "stats hog" explanation doesnt hold water.

Dont get me wrong, he might one day be as good or better than jordan, but he is overrated because RIGHT NOW he is treated as good or better than him.

[dlpin]

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Oh, and Lebron looked pretty solid today in Game 7, in my opinion. Hard to overrate 45 points on a touch under 50% shooting. And he's 23!!! Lebron's NBA resume far outshines Jordan's at this point in their careers, I really don't even think that is questionable. Give him a break.

MJ at 23 was also bounced from the playoffs by the celtics, except it was the best celtics team of all time, and he still dropped 63 points on them after missing almost an entire season with bad knees.

[dlpin]

by the way, judge for yourselves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXwuZUAZtL0...&playnext=1

[Diesel]

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Kobe too, has yet to have humbling experiences like Jordan had.

Ummm....Eagle Colorado anyone??? If that experience wasn't humbling then I don't know what would qualify.

The years since Shaq left have not been too successful for Kobe.

Oh, and Lebron looked pretty solid today in Game 7, in my opinion. Hard to overrate 45 points on a touch under 50% shooting. And he's 23!!! Lebron's NBA resume far outshines Jordan's at this point in their careers, I really don't even think that is questionable. Give him a break.

What happened to Kobe off the court, didn't humble him on the court. He still couldn't get along with Shaq. He still could not be a me first player. Even now. Kobe has won his first MVP but he's putting on the fake team player, but he's still a me first guy. Did you see the back injury against Utah?? If that was real, I have beach front property on Auburn Avenue. Kobe wanted to pull a Willis Reed or a MJ. Except Kobe didn't have a fever. Kobe did not have a toe so swollen that he had to cut a hole out of his shoe,. And Kobe did not damn near break his leg.

[jhay610]

Lebron made the finals last year with a bunch of bums. Granted he didn't have to go through any great teams but it was still dam impressive, esp. his herculean Game 5.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Jordan's 63 point barrage came in Game 2 of a series in which the Bulls were eventually swept.

I'm not saying Lebron is or will be the player Jordan was, but at this point (age 23) Lebron has accomplished more than any player that I can come up with in league history.

It is not his fault that the media is doing what it's doing and you are not giving him nearly enough credit.

And to your criticisms of his game: Jordan did not develop a consistent jump shot until later in his career. At 23, Jordan's J was shaky just like Lebron's.

As far as his post game, I am sure that Lebron would be unstoppable there if Mike Brown would remove his head from ass and actually have his team run some sets that deployed Lebron there. The very few times they did use Lebron in the midpost in the series he was effective.

Brown should send Lebron a bouquet and thank you note every offseason in return for Bron single-handedly keeping Brown out of the bread line.

[dlpin]

"reaching the finals" was a team effort. And in any case, that is still not true: Magic Johnson was finals mvp at 20, and won a championship playing as center when the best center of all time in my opinion went down with an injury in the finals. And how do you think Lebron would have fared in a team where the other starters were oakly, paxson, orlando wooldridge and Kyle Macy, like jordan had, going against larry bird, mchale, parish, ainge, johnson and walton?

Again, Im giving Lebron all the credit he deserves: excellent player, extremely clutch, only reason cavs matter at all, one day may be as good as jordan, and if he develops a consistent jumper and post up game, watch out. But that doesnt change the fact that he is treated, RIGHT NOW, as being at the same level as jordan and johnson at their peaks, which is far from the truth.

[AHF]

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But that doesnt change the fact that he is treated, RIGHT NOW, as being at the same level as jordan and johnson at their peaks, which is far from the truth.

Clearly he is not near either of them at their peaks. I challenge you to find a single quote saying he is at that level, though. If he is being actually overrated as being on par with Jordan's peak, then I haven't seen or heard the person rating him in that way.

[jhay610]

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"reaching the finals" was a team effort.

Lebron took a team full of bums to the finals. With Jordan you point to a team full of scrubs for his defense, but with Lebron you say it was "a team effort." You can't have it both ways. W/O Lebron to will that team to the finals last year they don't even make the playoffs.

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And in any case, that is still not true: Magic Johnson was finals mvp at 20, and won a championship playing as center when the best center of all time in my opinion went down with an injury in the finals.

Great year by Magic to be sure, but I still think Lebron has accomplished more to this point than any player. Lebron averaged 21ppg as a 19 year old. Magic averaged over 21 ppg four times in his entire career, a feat that Lebron has already eclipsed in each of his five years.

For comparison's sake, lets look at the numbers from Lebron at 20-23 next to magic's from 20-23 (since Magic broke into the league at 20)

Lebron 05-06 ppg/rpg/apg 31.4/7/6.6....06-07 27.3/6.7/6.0.... 07-08 30/7.9/7.2

Magic ages 20-23: 79-80 18/7.7/7.3....80-81 (37 games) 21.6/8.6/8.6... 81-82 18.6/9.6/9.5

Comparable numbers, yes. Lebron is far and away the better scorer, and not too far behind Magic in the other categories as well. I understand that scoring isn't everything and Magic had to be more of a distributor than a scorer. The flip-side of that is that maybe if the rest of the Cavs weren't so dismal they could get Lebron a couple more dimes per game.

By virtue of Lebron being in the league since he was 18, he has already compiled some staggering statistics. He is the youngest player in league history to tally 10,000 points. This, plus his performance in the playoffs, in my mind gives him the edge in terms of how his career stacks up historically at age 23.

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And how do you think Lebron would have fared in a team where the other starters were oakly, paxson, orlando wooldridge and Kyle Macy, like jordan had

Sounds a lot like Ilgauskas, Szczerbiak, West and Wallace to me.

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going against larry bird, mchale, parish, ainge, johnson and walton?

They got swept. He could not have done any worse.

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Again, Im giving Lebron all the credit he deserves: excellent player, extremely clutch, only reason cavs matter at all, one day may be as good as jordan, and if he develops a consistent jumper and post up game, watch out. But that doesnt change the fact that he is treated, RIGHT NOW, as being at the same level as jordan and johnson at their peaks, which is far from the truth.

On this we can agree...

[dlpin]

First game of the celtics=cavs series, all the tnt crew could talk about was about how people were wrong to compare Lebron to MJ, that he was in fact like "a Magic Johnson who could score at will". In Boston, of all places, they had a few stories asking Terry Francona, Red Sox manager who was also MJ's manager in the minors, if he thought Lebron was better than MJ. No qualifiers, no "at the same age"- a maor media outlet was having a story about MJ vs Lebron. Heck, just go back to the day after his game against the Pistons, and everywhere you looked talking heads were saying how he made "the leap" to Jordan's level.

As far as direct quotes, Im not going to go back and search opinion articles about that (though it would be easy to find stuff just by looking at the cavs celtics previews) Just do a google of "Jordan Lebron" and you will see that while some articles make the "is he the NEXT jordan," which indicate an age comparison, you will find just as many debating who is the best player EVER...

[AHF]

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As far as direct quotes, Im not going to go back and search opinion articles about that (though it would be easy to find stuff just by looking at the cavs celtics previews) Just do a google of "Jordan Lebron" and you will see that while some articles make the "is he the NEXT jordan," which indicate an age comparison, you will find just as many debating who is the best player EVER...

I googled and only found comparisons about what they had done and whether Lebron could reach Jordan's level in the future.

I also found articles by bloggers that are more like what you are talking about but I don't give those any real weight.

[dlpin]

Just saw a Nike commercial and was reminded of who is the most overrated person in sports:

Landon Donovan. Yeah, I bet many of you are saying "who?" Its the guy who looks more like an accountant that is in several of these new nike commercials, alongside people who are legitimately among the best in their sports.

http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=w4TbxS_CdWE

Landon Donovan is portrayed with them, even though he is a big time choker who preferred to play his entire career in the MLS instead of trying his chances against superior talent. And making 1 million a year (second highest league salary), he consistently trash talks as he plays against semi pro players who often make as little as 12k a year.

[BigDirty]

He's such a crybaby. He came to Leverkusen and signed a 5 year contract or so. Then he cried cause he wasn't playing much in the first team, so they loaned him out back to the USA. 1-2 years later he came back and cried until they sold him to the MLS. Leverkusen tried everything they could (they're one of the best clubs when it comes to integrating players from overseas) but he was just "wäh wäh I want to go back to America" all the time.

[dlpin]

Not only that, but he is a classless bum. Absolutely refuses to play against tough competition unless he really has to. He asked to move back to the US because he didnt want to have to earn a starting spot in Europe, and he said from the get go last year that he would refuse to play in copa america against the likes of Brazil and Argentina. He only wanted to play in the gold cup and against CONCACAF sides. And then he goes and makes a complete ass of himself by provoking fans of such powerhouse nations as Barbados, Guatemala and so on. Like in the MLS, where he is in the team with the highest payroll who just managed to get one game above .500 after two years of trying, and he still thinks enough of himself to do stuff like raise his fingers and do "slashing the throat" sign when he scores against teams like real salt lake and etc.

[BigDirty]

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he said from the get go last year that he would refuse to play in copa america against the likes of Brazil and Argentina.

Lol, how did the coach react? I guess most european national coaches wouldn't nominate him for a loooong time after such a stunt.

[dlpin]

Donovan is still captain of the US team...

[BigDirty]

Nice.

[AHF]

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he said from the get go last year that he would refuse to play in copa america against the likes of Brazil and Argentina.

Did he end up playing in Copa America or did he refuse and still get to be captain?

[dlpin]

he refused to play in the copa america, and is still the captain of the USMNT.

[AHF]

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he refused to play in the copa america, and is still the captain of the USMNT.

Not good.

[Traceman]

You sound just like all the Jordan haters who used to say that Jordan was a ball hog and all he could do was dunk when they were comparing him to Magic and Larry. Truth is LeBron is GREAT and he is going to get a LOT better. Kobe is the only player in the NBA who is better than him right now and he is not even close to reaching his prime.

Saying that KG is better than LeBron is a joke. The Celtics have 2 HOFers playing alongside KG and the best support that LeBron has is an aging Ilgauskas. Despite all that, LeBron damn near led the Cavs to a win over the Celtics in game 7 in Boston. KG is a great player in his own right but he has NEVER put a team on his back and had success like LeBron has.

LeBron may very well be OVERHYPED (as this is the age of hype) but he is still the 2nd best player in the NBA today.