A thought about coaching I had today.

[Admin]

Yeah, I think Phil would have won more than 66 games with this Celtics team and I am almost certain they would be in a lot better shape in the playoffs right now with Phil coaching them. No way should they have struggled with the Hawks or Cavs.

[dlpin]

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You mean like the best record in the NBA? You think Phil could do better than the best?

You guys put waaayyy to much emphasis on 12 or so games against 2, thats right, 2 oponents. For the record, I'd let Woody go for Doc without hesitation.

Im a celtics fan, so I would love to exaggerate the meaning of top record in the regular season. But the fact is, regular season coaching doesnt require much, especially with a group of veteran all stars. Look at what doc has done in the previous 2 seasons with a similar set up of the hawks. And dont forget the Tom Thibodeau signing: in his 14 years as assistant, his teams have always been in the top 10 defensively. It's the playoffs when coaching really matters, and you can see whats going on...

But let me add this, so that I dont sound like a hater: Doc is the quintessential players coach, and he knows how to handle veterans better than most coaches. From his first season in Orlando to the transition to this year's team, he's been wonderful at getting veteran players to care about the game and put their egos aside. With all the adversity these playoffs, with all the changes in rotation, you dont hear a single peep of discontentment. Which makes him a better than average coach for the Nuggets, Mavs and wizards, but not the hawks...

[dlpin]

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Deep bench? Going into this season the there were exactly 2 things that people said would hold Boston back even after the trades....Defense and Bench. Those bench players weren't supposed to be worth a damn, and neither was the teams defense. Guess what makes average players good and offensive minded guys play defense? That's right...Coaching.

Jesus, I've been agreeing with Diesel entirely too much lately.

At first the bench might not have been deep, but with Posey, House, Cassel and Brown taking discounts to play for a contender, and the emergence of Bug Baby and Posey as serviceable back up big men, that's changed. As for defense, Tom Thibodeau was the assistant coach in those 90s knicks teams, and those rockets teams of recent memory, when they were top 5 in defense in the league for his entire tenure. If he was able to get a top 5 defense team in Houston with a line up of Bob Sura, David Wesley, McGrady and others, of course he would succeed with Garnett, Rondo, Pierce and others. Not that Doc is completely without merit, he did an ok job during the regular season setting a rotation (not entirely, though, as that was caused more by the blowouts... he still sucked in close games) and he's been amazing at getting everyone to buy into this (Pierce and Allen happy shooting much, much less, Cassel happy in the bench, House and Posey happy as back ups).

[thefloydian]

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Sure, let me know if you need me to type another post for you again LOL.

I understand the sentimental side of wanting guys like Doc and Nique running things but Doc has proven that he is an average coach and I would not let Woody go just to bring in Doc. I shudder to think how good the Celtics could be if they had Phil Jackson coaching them in the triangle.

Average coach??

Did you miss what Doc did in Orlando with no marquee players? That's not average coaching. That was coaching that got him coach of the year credit. 66 wins is not average coaching? How many coaches can claim 66 wins regardless of what level of talent they have? Did Sloan ever get 66 wins when he had Stockton and Malone?

I can't figure Doc out.

He led that amazing nobody team in Orlando to the playoffs (led by Darrell Armstrong and others of his ilk, including a pre-famous Ben Wallace) and at times he seems really good.

At other times he seems clueless. This regular season and post-season are representative of that. He is a hard guy to really put your finger on.

I wouldn't compare him to Woodson because Woodson hasn't overachieved - ever. Although I will say Doc has had more to work with on the whole.

Good post.

I agree that he is an upgrade over Woodson, because I believe any warm body is an upgrade over Woodson. How much of an upgrade he is beyond that is hard to say.

[Diesel]

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If he doesn't win the NBA title this year with this great trio of players and a deep bench then this season will mean absolutely nothing.

In his BEST season prior to this one he won 45 games and only 57 the 2 years prior to this season combined. That's Woody territory, which is why I said he is an average coach. Hell you give Woody a 1st ballot HOF player and 2 potential HOF players and a deep bench and see how many wins he would get.

Did you forget that he had T-Mac in Orlando? T-Mac might not be able to get you out of the first round but he can damn near get you into the playoffs on his own.

OK, so I guess when Mike Dunleavy couldn't get past the WCF when he had Pipp, Oneal, Wallace, Smitty, and the rest of the PTL trailblazers.. I guess that meant he sucked?

When Rudy T. Couldn't get out of the second round of the playoffs when he had Barkley, Pippen, Hakeem, and Drexler... I guess that meant he sucked as a coach??

When Adelman couldn't make it to the finals when he had Webber, Bibby, and Peja... I guess that meant that he sucked as a coach??

When George Karl couldn't get out of the first round of the playoffs with Iverson, Melo, and Camby (DPOY), I guess that means that he sucks as a a coach too??

Winning an NBA championship is not an easy proposition. Having three players who were stars on your team is not a guarantee that you will win a championship. Winning a championship requires timing, chemistry, and opportunities that some people call luck. I'm not saying that Boston will lose, but I know getting past Detroit will not be easy. Detroit is a veteran team that has been together for the last 5 years. They have a veteran PG compared to Boston's rookie PG. IMO, that will determine the series. IF Billups shut down Rondo.. what do you say?? Allen should have done something. Some of you guys don't get it. To win in this league, it requires more than scorers or guys that can hit shots from outside... You have to be strong at the C and the PG positions.

[Admin]

Defend Doc all you want but you ask 100 Boston fans if this season would be a monumental failure if they don't win the title and whether Doc should be brought back and see what they have to say about it. I guarantee you that 90% or more will say it's a failure and to fire Doc.

[dlpin]

From a celtics blog:

[Dsinner]

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Defend Doc all you want but you ask 100 Boston fans if this season would be a monumental failure if they don't win the title and whether Doc should be brought back and see what they have to say about it. I guarantee you that 90% or more will say it's a failure and to fire Doc.

Yeah, now look at Woody. When do you think that will ever be the case with him?..."If he doesn't win the chanmpionship we should fire him." LOL!!! Woody wishes that was his measuring stick.

Look, there are other coaches I'd rather have, but the fact some of you are basically calling it a wash is pretty funny.

[Diesel]

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Defend Doc all you want but you ask 100 Boston fans if this season would be a monumental failure if they don't win the title and whether Doc should be brought back and see what they have to say about it. I guarantee you that 90% or more will say it's a failure and to fire Doc.

Isn't that every year?

Come on Dol...

You know Boston fans are almost as Critical as Philly fans.

Their history of championships has tainted them. Every year they want to win the title. Even when Chris Ford was coach they thought that they should have been in the title game.

When Bird was there and they lost to the Lakers in the finals, everybody wanted KC Jones fired.