What is surprising.....

[Diesel]

It's surprising to me that Raymond Brothers stated that He hasn't talked to the Hawks about JT since the first week in July.

What that really means is that the Hawks are in no rush to get a deal done with JT.

My question.

Could JT be trade bait?

Really, the money is there with Brandon under contract for now. The need for a guard is evident. Knight and Kasten say that they want JT. Well, why haven't they been in contact with him? Especially after the Utah thing?

If Night is trying to prove that JT has very little value, that's mean. Brothers is saying JT is keeping his options open. Well, I don't see many teams beating down the door. If you read the article, it's almost like Knight was Chastising Brothers when he said " we don't work contract out in the media". It's like he said .... You shouldn't have tried to increase JT's value by lying about what Utah offered. Now, we're going to force you to find a deal and when you have found it, we will MATCH.

More than Likely, no team will offer JT a lot.

However, I do believe that LAC might come knocking. Being that Odom has signed an offer sheet, it's really LAC's big Chance to get a SHooter in their mix. But like Miami, LAC doesn't have the money to offer more than a contract starting at 5-6.

Utah will probably opt for Stephen Jackson.

Denver will probably take Smith and Glover.

that Leaves JT with NO Options.

I feel a low ball coming on.

[Boondocks]

While I agree the team seems to be waiting on a lowball offer in order to match it, if the clips don't match Odom's sheet they'll be about 10 million under the salary cap, and just a a few million removed from the minimum salary cap (32 mil something).

If the clips do match Odom's sheet, they'll still be under the cap but for just around 4 million.

Yes, the clips have that much money to spend.

[Diesel]

I'm not doubting the clipps Money...

I'm doubting their willingness to give JT 10 million dollars.

Moreover, I don't know if they will match Odom. I know there's talk that they will... BUT Miami frontloaded the offer so that Odom gets 15 million to start. That was done specifically so that if LAC did match, they would go over the cap.

[capstone21]

I doubt that JT is going to be traded....the whole reason for the drafting of Diaw is to play along side JT in the back court.

He is the exact type of player that is needed. A Doug Christie type that can defend, handle and pass the ball. Now he and JT can share ball handling duties and Diaw can guard the shooting guard while JT guards the opposing teams point guard.

[Diesel]

That is a true reason for us drafting him....

But why isn't JT signed yet?

You would think we wouldn't hesitate signing JT being that he's the future that we're building around??

I think it is a little more complicated than that. Yes we got Diaw to be a ball handler, but that's not just for JT. He can do the same with Dickau at the PG. He can do the same with Van Exel at the PG.

Seriously.

Couldn't we win with:

Nazr/SAR/Finley/Diaw/Van Exel....

Just a thought here.

But the point is that I wouldn't consider JT untradable because of how we drafted. Knight has said some things which were flat out not true. LIke him saying " we talk with JT's management all the time".... Then Brothers contradicting that by saying " I haven' t heard from the Hawks about JT since the first week in July.".

That kind of stuff when paired with " this trade makes it easier for us to go after FAs like Odom, Jackson, and etc..." makes me say.... Does Knight take everyone for fools. I'm not questioning his character, But I don't think that every word he says is true.

So when they say " JT is our first priority" and here it is the middle of August and they haven't talked contract with JT..... That tells me that JT might not be first priority.

I suspect Knight is going to Lowball JT. Either force JT to take a low bid or force him to keep the qualifying offer and try the market Next year. Either way, it's a helluva way to treat the guy who you consider part of the core of the team.

[Guest]

There isn't an NBA player miss treated I can tell you

that right now. In fact, they are pampered WAY too

much. Maybe if JT understood what a real days work

is and Kenyon Martin they wouldn't feel "Miss Treated"

give me a freakin break.

And whos to say Brothers isn't liying again? Trying to

paint the Hawks out to be the bad guys?

It's not mean to expose JT for what he is....Not very valueable to a winning team. We need him so that

we will not be the worst team in the league this year.

[Traceman]

You've been saying for MONTHS that you wouldn't give JT a big contract and now you are saying that Billy Knight is "mean" because he hasn't given JT a big contract offer? It has been CLEAR all along what the Hawks'plans are with JT. They plan to match any offer he gets, assuming that offer is reasonable. They offered him a long term extension last year and he declined it because he didn't think the money was right. The Hawks told him that he would get the big extension the team wanted IF WE WON WITH HIM AT PG. Well, we DIDN'T win with him at PG and now, the Hawks are obviously trying to sign him for something significantly less than he wants. Before its all said and done, I think he'll be back here for somewhere in the neighborhod of what Andre Miller got, but probably a little less.

So what is a "low ball" offer to JT? Is 7 yrs/$50 million a low ball offer? That is what I have been saying the Hawks should offer JT for quite some time.

[Diesel]

NO... I'm saying that it seems wrong to me for Knight to proclaim JT as being our first order of Business but then to wait for the league to set his value. I doubt JT will get an offer that is close to 7 million per. I think he may get a deal that average 6.2 million per. If No team takes the time to offer JT a deal, I wouldn't put it out of Knight's ability to offer JT a deal worth 6.8 million per. I see nothing wrong with that. IN fact, I think it's very reasonable considering JT's flaws. What I think is wrong is the way that Knight is seemingly doing it. If Brothers is telling the truth, JT's name hasn't came up once since the first week in July. IF this is supposed to be a core player, then you would think that we would have started negotiations with him. It's like we are trying to make a point to JT and his agent.... For me, I see it as being very very shrewd... But How do you think JT sees it. Would you blame him if he takes no offer this summer and becomes an unrestricted FA next year.

[capstone21]

The reason he is not signed yet is becuase they want some other team set the market value for him. They will resign him but at the price another team is willing to pay for him.

[Diesel]

That's fine and very strewd...

But think about it from a different perspective.

Would the Lakers do the same with Kobe?

Would the Magic do the same with Tmac?

Would the Celtics do the same with Pierce?

I use these three as examples because their teams didn't do the same with them. Also, because we have given JT a label. He's a "CORE" player. We have obviously made moves to guarantee us keeping him. We have cut salary. We have drafted role players... BUT... The fact that we are letting the market set his value is sorta like a slap in the face to JT. Sure he's talented, but the whole league knows he's very flawed. What Knight is basically saying is "you should have taken last years deal." NOW, I'm going to make sure that you know how much you are worth....

My question.

So what happens when Nobody makes a bid?

The Next logical step is that we low ball him.

I say: 7 year 46.2 Million.

Very fair. Average 6.59 per year.

Seriously, where can he find a better deal.

4.5, 5.06, 5.7, 6.4, 7.2, 8.1, 9.12

That's a low ball offer. However if you're JT, you take it. Especially if your agent has to make up stuff about talks with Utah.

[Gray Mule]

$46.2 Million contract

$50. Million Contract

Takes Jason Terry seven years to earn that much?

And this is low balling? Poor folks, working men and women,

earning a high salary of say, $52,000.00 per year, which

ain't too bad if there are two working in the household,

that's over $100 thousand a year, would only have to

work 50 years, both of them, to earn that much.

Most folks around here make about half that, so it would

only take me and my wife 100 years to earn that much

money.

I know that all the players in the N.B.A. and all their

agents have an inflated idea as to their value as players.

You just don't hear, "You're trying to pay me or my client

too much." Of course not. They want all that they can

get. Don't blame them. That's how this part of the game

is played.

With a few exceptions, every player, if given the

opportunity, would agree to have eleven players signed

for the league minimum and take the rest of the salary

money for themselves. Some wouldn't, but most would.

There may be some free agents left, not signed, demanding

that huge salary and not getting it, that now find themselves

squeesed out of the big money. I don't know this to be

the case, but I believe that it is.

Would Jason Terry's agent lie? Would the Hawks G.M.?

All I know is, their stories don't match. You decide who

it is that didn't tell the truth. Someone didn't.

[Traceman]

Those guys are all top 10 players and Kobe and T Mac are top 5. Reef is probably top 20 but JT is not. JT doesn't get to demand a max salary and get it like those 3 do. Personally, I don't think Reef does either.

Knight is not "slapping JT in the face" but he IS playing hardball and I think it has worked. If the Hawks bring a reasonable offer to the table, I think JT will accept. The deal has to start at AT LEAST $5.25 million and it needs to run for 7 years. Anything less than $5 million to start, JT may very well be willing to wait and see if another team gives him an offer. They might give him a slightly higher offer but the Hawks will likely match any reasonable offer.

Your offer of 7 yrs/$46.2 million is only $4 million off my 7 yr/$50 million offer. The difference is that even teams over the cap can offer JT a deal starting higher than your propsed $4.5 million. My proposal would start at slightly above $5 million and would prevent all teams over the cap from being able to offer a similar deal. In addition, from a psychological standpint, I think exceeding the MCE to secure JT could be important.

[Diesel]

I don't disagree with what you are saying...

But do you play hardball with Players you plan to build around?

Think about it.

The Pacers planned to build around Oneal. They paid him Tim Duncan Money. I really don't think Oneal is worthy of Tim Duncan Money. I don't think he's worthy of Walker money. I don't think Walker is worthy of Walker money... But my point is that they stepped up and made Oneal KNOW that he is their guy for the future.

However, we're playing Hardball with JT.

Why?

Because we can?

Because we don't consider him the future?

No. We're playing Hardball with JT because we're not sure of JT. Similar to Miami and Wade. Wade could have been signed a long time ago. It's BS to say that they wanted to make many offers before signing him. The truth is that they are not totally sure of Wade and if the right trade came along, they would trade him.

Does this mean that if the right trade came along we would trade JT? I won't say we wouldn't.

You mentioned Psychological.

Psychologically, the hardest part about the hard ball we're playing is that there is NO reassurances going out to JT from us. We have told him, "We're trying to wait for the deal to be completed". Which would be a lie. We haven't told him.... BY this date we plan to have you signed. From JT's agent, we haven't told him anything since free agency start on July 1. That suggests to me that we made an offer and Brothers turned it down so we left them in limbo.

Hardball Yes.

Is it right? I'm not complaining because I don't think JTis the best talent for our team.

Would I do it?

If I were GM and JT was My guy for the next 7 years, I would treat him a little better in negotiations. I'm not saying I wouldn't play hardball, but it sounds like we've stepped away from the table and said.... We will not make anymore offers.

7 year 50 million is not so bad. I'd do it. But not more.

[Boondocks]

In reply to:

---

Moreover, I don't know if they will match Odom. I know there's talk that they will... BUT Miami frontloaded the offer so that Odom gets 15 million to start. That was done specifically so that if LAC did match, they would go over the cap.

---

Actually, that isn't the case.

Miami has made it as uneasy as possible for Sterling to write out paychecks, yes, but the contract isn't that large per year.

What Miami has done ( as well as the Brand contract), is use the rules so that Sterling would have to shell out big bucks on the first day of the season.

What did Miami do to make the contract so rich ( as did Denver with Miller and Utah with Maggette)

You can structure a contract in the current CBA that for the first years (2 or 3, will have to look that up on Larry Coon's site but I think it's 2) you can pay 70% of the years salary up front, 30 % over the remainder of the season.

But it doesn't stop there, Miami also gave a huge signing bonus over the entire contract, which makes the total amount the Clippers would have to pay for Odom in October 15 million, but his starting salary will be around 7 million. It's to be more precise a bonus for signing the contract over the entire duration of the contract, which makes the per year amount slightly less, but you can pay out the entire bonus at the beginning of the contract. So players don't earn more because of the bonus, but get more money up front.

Brand has the max contract, and his salary will be starting at just over 10 million, but the clips will have to pay him about 21 million in october.

Maggette has such contract options built in as well, so the clips will be shelling out alot of dough and it isn't all counted against the cap, so Miami, Denver and Utah hoped that would be too hard on the penny pinching Sterling to cope with. Only Denver got away with it but Miller seemed to have worn out his welcome with the clips anyway.

So if the clips match Odom, they'll be shelling out 36+ million on the start of the season for Brand and Odom alone (don't know Maggette's contract) eventhough only 17+ milion counts against the cap.

So yes, matching the offer sheet on Odom would NOT take the clips over the salary cap, eventhough Sterling will be shelling out alot of money for Brand, Odom, Maggette and the rest of the team as well of course (but they probably have the usual paycheck every two weeks or every month).

[Guest]

I think it has a lot less to do with their lack of certainty of Grant/Jones in relationship to their contracts than anything having to do specifically with Wade...they know he's valuable. But they'd be more than willing to part with him if it meant dumping one of the other two...