Walter's Butchery of Stats...

[Diesel]

I learned a long time ago never to trust Walter with Stats. Because Walter just isn't fourthright.

So, looking at this past Hawk - Laker Argument... I did something I rarely like to do... I went to verify the unverifiable. Anywho. Here's the end to the argument.

Reg Season Avgs...

Kobe - 25.2

Fisher 11.2

Fox 7.9

Walker 6.7

Horry 6.8

Game 1 Without Shaq. Philly.

K - 12 p . (-13.2 ppg)

Fisher - 9 p. (-2.2 ppg)

Fox 2 p (-5.9)

Walker 18 p (+11.3)

Horry 7p (+ .2)

Game 2 without Shaq.

K 39 (13.8)

F 4 (-7.2)

F 4 (-3.9)

W 11 (+4.3)

H 6 (-.8)

Game 3 without Shaq

K 26 (+.8)

F 9 (-2.2)

F 14 (+ 6.1)

W 9 (+2.3)

H 3 (-3.8)

Game 4 without Shaq

K 16 (-9.2)

F 7 (-4.2)

F 16 (+8.1)

W 12 (+5.3)

H 14 (+7.2)

Game 5 without Shaq

K 28 (+ 2.8)

F 5 (-6.2)

F 17 (+9.1)

W 14 (+7.3)

H 0 (-6.8)

Game 6 without Shaq

Kobe 18 (-7.2)

Fisher 12 (+0.8)

Fox 8 (+ 0.1)

Walker 9 (+ 2.3)

Horry 5 (-1.8)

I guess the pertainent question is to ask Walter where did he get his numbers??

The numbers I present shows a pattern.

Those guys who live off of Shaq... i.e. Fisher (the master of the open Look), Horry suffered because there was no Shaq to draw attention to the Center and leave them open.

The one guy who prospered the most was Samaki Walker. That being because his playing time increased. He didn't make up for Shaq, but he added a contribution.

Those guys who don't neccessary live off of Shaq, i.e. Kobe and Fox... either prospered or withered according to what team they played and what defensive scheme the team played. Again, Kobe didn't carry the team. To average in a 39 p game and a 50 point game with a whole lot of 14 and 17 p game efforts and say that Kobe carried the Lakers in Shaq's absence is ridiculous because he didn't. It also goes to speak against Shaq vs Tmac vs. Iverson vs. Carter.... I don't think that Kobe can be as good as them with the pressure that they constantly face. Iverson being the only offensive option on his team is constantly doubled... But that's another story.

The Stat Butcher would have you believe those average were representitive of what really went on.

Anyway, back to the original statement and why this is important to us.

We don't have the type of guys who can step up their games in the absence of JT or SAR.

examine our play without SAR.

http://www.nba.com/games/20020323/CHIATL/boxscore.html

vs Other games with Chicago

http://www.nba.com/games/20020117/CHIATL/boxscore.html

http://www.nba.com/games/20011215/ATLCHI/boxscore.html

http://www.nba.com/games/20020319/ATLCHI/boxscore.html

Even though Krug's lineup frenzy doesn't allow for direct comparison... Aside from the maturity as the season went on, there's nobody really stepping up... (save Hendu) who stepped up because of PT.

[Guest]

We need guys sorta like Toni but a few years youngers.Experience

Guys like Billups/Malik Rose.You need guys that have played at a

high level....

Sadly,Kukoc is really the only guy on our team that has playoff

experience,but he is way passed his prime.Getting rid of Hanno

and other youth for a Billups/Rose type of player would be great...

[Guest Walter]

Since I sited each and every game in which my stats were taken from there is no basis for crying I am not "fourthright" (whatever that is?). Furthermore, for your information the stats all were a result of NBA.com. Feel free to consider all the games without Shaq instead of the 6 you sighted (which BTW don't support your position anyhow). Be thurough and try not to make a bigger a** of yourself.

W

[Guest Walter]

That's game by game as listed in "WHO'S YOUR DADDY..." and through the NBA.com website.

(Bwak) Diesel's chicken-hawksquawk.

W

[Diesel]

Show me. Don't say... I got these from NBA.com

That's BS.

I know you too well as a liar Walter.

Share a Link..

Who's your daddy had NONE.. Just words.

If you can't share a link,

Share your spreadsheet or whatever you used?

[Guest Walter]

Here's your link to NBA.com. I've gone through the trouble of holding your pathetic hand and linking the LA Lakers' "schedules and scores" page from which the game by game stats for Kobe and Fischer, Fox, and Horry (Where else?) were specifically compiled.

http://www.nba.com/lakers/schedule/index.html

Now, since Diesel is hidding behind his need for links to NBA.com. Here is a quote from my "WHO'S YOUR DADDY..." post that tells him exactly the games used as part of my statistical analysis.

In reply to:

---

"First, the criteria for games is simple. Any game that Shaq DNP and Kobe did play counts. Those games are the 4 games from Dec. 25th through 30th; Jan. 2, 14, 16, 19, 23; the 6 games from Feb. 6th through 21st, and April 3rd and 5th. Any game missed by Fox, Fischer, or Horry was not counted against their scoring average."

---

I refer Diesel and others to the "WHO'S YOUR DADDY..." post linked below for any other questions regarding this matter.

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat....mp;o=0#Post3291

W

[Guest Walter]

You've got all the links to NBA.com (snicker) you could want. You are either helpless or desperate or both.

It works like this. Any game O'Neal was the high scorer or rebounder, I knew he played. Any game he was not the high socrer or rebounder for LA I clicked on the box score and checked to see if he played. Any game that he did not play in and Kobe did I took down the scoring for Kobe, Fischer, Fox, and Horry. Only Horry didn't play in one of those games and that missed game did not count against his scoring average.

Then I totaled their scores and divided their total score by the number of games played to come up with a scoring average for games without Shaq (DUH?!? But it seems you can't do anything including find NBA.com, so I've got to spell this out S--L--O--W). Then I compared that to their season long scoring average (See "WHO'S YOUR DADDY..." for more specifics). Then I justifiably mocked you and made you look the fool.

Feel free to back up your accusations up through the last thing I did. That, or remain the sorry a** chicken hawk you are.

W

[Guest Walter]

I gave you the links to NBA.com (snicker) that you cried for. Now be a man, look up all the stats, and bring your sorry a** back here with your tail between your legs, report them, and apologize.

Apologizing would require you to (accept and) admit that you were wrong. Just lettin' ya in on a little of what those without a (utterly unwarranted) "God complex" know about the world of ethics.

W

[Guest Walter]

Do the right thing Diesel. Stand up to your pathetic accusations and face your own sorry words. Diesel's credibility...going, going, gone.

W