Damn Sund

[Bawse]

Teague had 24 points and 15 dimes in the season finale last year so he's obviously capable of putting up big numbers as well.

It was the season finale and no one was even playing. Half of the time the defenders just watched Teague goto the basket. I don't think Jeff Teague will ever have another game like that legitimately. Trade his *ss now.

[lethalweapon3]

The Wolves stole Lawson for the Nuggets and we settled on Teague. Just a fix. Not taking Beaubois or Collison or even Maynor or Douglas is another matter altogether.

Not to hijack the thread, but a side question bugging me. When was the last time Sund traded players in mid-season? I'll assume it's during the Sonics tenure, but how far back (Allen/Payton '03?) I have no proof, but I get the feeling that Sund prefers not to pursue personnel moves during the regular season unless his team is totally tanking. Please correct me if I've forgotten an in-season Hawk trade with Sund at the helm.

~lw3

Only other one I found during the Sonics tenure was near the deadline in February 2006, about a month and a half after Bob Weiss got canned. The team was 21-34, coming off a road victory against the Hawks, but hadn't strung together two wins in a row since mid-December. Sund and the Sonics got in the mix on a four-team deal. Uber-rebounder Reggie Evans went to the Nuggets and the Sonics got Bryon Russell, Earl Watson and a second-rounder. The team finished 14-13 but missed the playoffs.

The 2003 trade was at/near the deadline. The Sonics were 22-30 with two recent six-game losing streaks, and were seen as sliding after three and a half years of treading water. Ray Allen, Flip Murray, Kevin Ollie and that years' 1st (Luke Ridnour) came from the Bucks for Gary Payton and Desmond Mason. Brent Barry moved to the PG role and the team went 18-12 to finish the season, despite missing the playoffs.

I'll check Sund's Pistons years next.

~lw3

[lethalweapon3]

I missed a couple Sonics trades, also in February 2003 and 2006, but just finished looking at those (2001-2007) and the Pistons years (1995-2001). I'll detail the in-season trades I found a little later, but my theory still holds so far: Sund has not had a recent history (recent being the last 15 years) of making trades for playoff contending teams (or winning teams, really) in mid-season. Where there have been regular-season trades, they were for teams with losing records and at/approaching the trading deadline. The vast majority of trades were around Draft Day, or in August/September prior to the start of the preseason. There's one big ol' asterisk of an exception involving a former Hawk, but I'll explain that later as well. Just starting to look at the Dallas years (1980-94).

~lw3

[lethalweapon3]

Finally finished scouring Sund's mid-season trading history. It suffices to say that Sund doesn't have much history of trading in mid-season, unless: (a) the team is tanking, or; (b) a publicly disgruntled player is forcing the team's hand. The closest thing to the type of trade Hawks fans are looking for from Sund was 25 years ago and involved a well-coiffed gentleman named Kurt Nimphius.

Sund's Mid-season Trades: The Mavericks Years

October 1980 - In the expansion year, Richard Washington and Jerome Whitehead were dispatched to Cleveland for Bill Robinzine and two future 1^st rounders (Derek Harper in 1983 and Roy Tarpley in1986). Sort of worked out, despite the acquisition of cryin' Bill. Was Whiteheadthe guy who sang "Ain't No Stoppin Us Now?" The fleecing of picks from the Cavs was what created the "Sund Rule" that you can't trade 1st rounders inconsecutive years.

November 1980 - What. People Do. For Money… Austin Carr sold to the Bullets for cash. Congrats to Carr, though, for recently getting back his title as "Mr. Cavalier."

December 1980 – Kiki Vandewghe and a future 1^st to the Nuggets, future 1^strounders (Rolando Blackman in 1981, Sam Vincent in 1985) to the Mavs. Both teams were thankful for this trade. The Mavericks much later on. Kiki didn't want to play for an expansion team and held out for a month until he was traded.

February 1981 – Geoff Huston and a future 3^rd rounder were graciously sent to Cleveland for Chad Kinch and a future 1^st (Detlef Schrempf in 1985). Huston gained momentary notoriety for scoring 27 assists in one game a year later for the Cavs. Kinch would not play in the NBA again after the season ended and gained posthumous notoriety about 13 years later.

November 1985 - Finally found a good one. The great Kurt Nimphius was handed to the Clippers for James Donaldson. The Mavs were 4-7 a week prior to the trade and, to keep from slipping out of contention after two straight years in the playoffs, desperately needed rebounding help (Bill Wennington and Uwe Blab were not enough, I suppose). D ick Motta was hesitant to force Sam Perkins to play center. The 7'2" future All-Star Donaldson led the league in FG% the prior season, and the Mavs went from 6-7 to 44-38 after his acquisition, returning to the conference semifinals. No word as to what the Clippers were smoking at that time. File Kurt Nimphius under "Names You Never Thought You'd Hear Again," along with Uwe Blab.

February 1989 – Malcontent Mark Aguirre and a future 1^st rounder went to the Pistons while Adreian Dantley begrudgingly became a Maverick. Sund was the player personnel director while co-franchise founder Norm Sonju was the GM, but the management team (including owner Donald Carter and coach John McLeod) had to have consensus before pulling the strings on a deal. With this blockbuster trade before the trading deadline, Aguirre used his moody blues to maximum effect, winding up in a less-demanding starting role and joining childhood buddy Isiah Thomas for the Pistons' first (and second) championship team. Before that, he was a menace to the Mavericks, refusing to play, loafing in games, fakinginjuries, and demanding to be traded after failing to get his contract renegotiated, then finding out in the media the owner expressed to miffed teammates a commitment to trading him. Sam Perkins: "I feel 40 pounds lighter. A load has been dumped. You never knew if the guy wanted to play or not." Derek Harper before the trade: "All this stuff is tearing the team apart. It's obvious Mark doesn't want to play here anymore, so they should just get him out of here." Donaldson: "There was a night-and-day difference in practice today. I'm ready for somebody who is willing to play every night. Sometimes Mark would just loaf around."Rolando Blackman: "You just can't let your teammates down, and he let us down a lot." The trade was also supposed to vault the Mavericks, just a half-season removed from taking the Lakers to 7 games in the conference finals but now clinging to an 8-seed, back into playoff contention, too. But Dantley, by then a top-ten all-time scorer in the league, balked at the trade at first (perhaps animosity at getting his jaw broken by the guy the Pistons traded him for three months later) and held out for 8 days. Injuries and Roy Tarpley's coke-fiend issues gutted the roster, and the Mavs went 13-23 after the trade, out of the playoffs. Dantley worked a deal to get waived the following season, the only Mavs team in the 90's to reach the playoffs.

February 1989 – Less than a week after the Aguirre-Dantley deal, the Mavs acquired the services of Herb Williams for Schrempf and a future 2^nd rounder. Before the Pistons made their play, the Pacers were set to trade Herb Williams and another player for Aguirre, but backed out after meeting him and confirming the depth of his bad attitude. Herb was shooting more like Peaches after the trade to the Mavs. Schrempf would blossom into a sixth-man sniper, Dan Patrick highlight favorite,and a three-time All-Star.

February 1992 – The now-sorry Mavericks tossed what was left of James Donaldson to the Knicks for Brian Quinnett (Who?)

Sund's Mid-season Trades: The Pistons Years

January 1997 – Stacey Augmon got dealt to Portland for Aaron McKie, Randolph Childress, and Reggie Jordan. (Pre: 29-11 Post: 25-17, lost to Hawks in Playoffs first round) On paper, this looks like the last time Sund commandeered a mid-season move for aplayoff contender. However, this swap was Doug Collins' doing. Plastic Man turned Ballistic Man, having had a shouting match in practice with coach (and team VP of bball ops) Doug Collins a couple weeks prior. Augmon was benched, demanded to be traded, and benched again until he was traded. Augmon to reporters after a victory on Jan. 5^th: "This is a really deep team, but I hope I'm not part of that depth. I want to be out of here." At the time of the trade,the Pistons were competing with the Heat, Knicks, and Hawks for second place in the conference, and Collins would go on to coach the All-Star Game. Sund, then the player personnel VP, would take over the basketball operations role after Collins was fired one year later.

December 1997 – Trying to turn around the season with superstar Grant Hill, Sund took advantage of the crowded and faltering young-star backcourt in Philly, offering two defensive stalwarts (Aaron McKieand Theo Ratliff) and a future 1^st rounder for Jerry Stackhouse anda future 2^nd rounder. The Pistons would improve marginally (Pre:11-14 Post: 26-31) but not in time to save Doug Collins' job, and would not make the playoffs.

January 1999 - NOT a midseason trade, since the lockout deferred the first NBA games to February, but thought I'd mention it anyway. Scott Pollard and the pick that would become Jumaine Jones came to the Hawks for fan-not-so-favorite Christian Laettner. Pollard would be waived by the Hawks less than a month later, settling with the Kings. Joining his fellow famed Dukie Grant Hill, Laettner would help put a scare to the Hawks in the first round of the playoffs, but Atlanta would prevail in 5 games.

November 2000 – Cedric Ceballos and a future 2^nd went to Miami for another future 2^nd. (Pre: 5-9 Post: 27-41). Like Ceballos' dunk contest attempts, nothing to see here. Except it was the last time Sund made a trade that was not at the trading deadline.

February 2001 – Corlis Williamson, Ty Corbin, T-Mac's old friend Kornel David, and a future 1^st rounder arrived in Motown from Toronto for the price of Jerome Williams and Eric Montross (Pre: 21-33 Post:11-17) Sund pretty much traded a disgruntled JYD for junk; not much salvageable from dealing away a top-tier rebounder and fan favorite. Big Nasty had a resurgence from the bench, but that was about all to write home about. The thought was the Pistons were clearing cap space with the faint chance of bringing home free agent prize Chris Webber in the summer. Sund read the tea leaves on the Pistons' future and began accepting overtures for Seattle's GM opening. Meanwhile, Lenny Wilkens' Raps went from 28-26 without JYD to 47-35, their first (and last) conference semifinals appearance, and a Vinsanity basket away from the Conference Finals.

Sund's Mid-season Trades: The Sonics Years (trades I forgot)

February 2003 (see Ray Allen trade a few posts above) – Kenny Anderson went from the Supes to New Orleans, in exchange for Elden Campbell.

February 2006 (see Reggie Evans trade a few posts above) –Vlad Radmanovic was shipped to the Clips for Chris Wilcox; Flip Murray went to Cleveland for Mike Wilks; Vitaly Potapenko also went to the Kings in the aforementioned 4-team deal.

~lw3

Edited December 14, 2010 by lethalweapon3

[MaceCase]

Proving that Sund only works in July and vacations for the rest of the year.

[Admin]

Nice research LW! As armchair GM's I'm sure we'd all love to see the Hawks make some trades but the likelihood is that we'll be standing pat since I Sund clearly doesn't like making trades and we're also not likely to be adding salary for next year. So unless a deal for Marvin comes up I'm guessing we stand still, although I suppose there's a chance we could do an expiring player who could help us and audition for us for Crawford, but again I doubt it.