Another Houston Trade

[ATLHawks3]

Atlanta receives: Kyle Lowry, Luis Scola, and the #14 pick

Houston receives: Josh Smith, and Jeff Teague.

Why Atlanta does it: You get a playmaking point guard in Kyle Lowry, you also get a more consistent power- forward in Luis Scola. He can easily give you 15 ppg and 6-7 rpg. You're also getting a draft pick that can either be used to select Austin Rivers, Tyler Zeller, Kendall Marshall, or Dion Waiters.

Why Houston does it: You are getting one of the best all around power-forwards in the game. He can score, rebound, play elite defense, and pass, and under a different system of basketball he could be a potential All-Star and "MAYBE" be in contention for an MVP award. You are also getting a very good defensive point guard in Jeff Teague. He can get you steals, force opposing guards to shoot bad shots, and he can bring energy to your team with his superb dunking skills.

Who benefits most from this trade: Atlanta

Why: Kyle Lowery is a competitor and he brings it everyday on the court. He's kind of like Rondo but with a decent jumper, he can rebound, score, and find people for easy buckets. Under LD's system of offense, look for him to get 16 ppg, 8 apg, 5 rpg. I don't understand why some people think that Luis Scola has a bad contract. He can score, rebound and shoot 50% from the field. The only flaw that I see in his game is that he doesn't block shots but other than that he's pretty good.

I would think this is a pretty good trade for both teams but Atlanta comes out as the better team after the trade.

New Atlanta Lineup:

PG-Kyle Lowery/Free Agent or Draft pick

SG-Joe Johnson or (hopefully) Austin Rivers/Free agent or draft pick

SF-Marvin Williams or Joe Johnson/If Austin Rivers is not avalible, a draft pick or a Free agent

PF-Luis Scola/Ivan Johnson(Resigned)

C- Al Horford/Zaza Pachulia

I got lazy with the backups so feel free to put in back ups that make sense finacially and production wise.

Please feel free to express your opinions about this trade and whether you like it or not.

Edited June 18, 2012 by ATLHawks3

[Joker]

Kyle Lowry isn't the PG we need. He is defensive minded. We might as well stick with Teague if that's your option. This is extremely favorable deal for Houston and bad deal for Atlanta.

[ATLHawks3]

Kyle Lowry isn't the PG we need. He is defensive minded. We might as well stick with Teague if that's your option. This is extremely favorable deal for Houston and bad deal for Atlanta.

How so? What other point guards can rebound, pass, and score (other than rondo)? Don't get me wrong, I love Teague, but Kyle Lowry is better than him at the point guard position. Plus we get a draft pick and Scola. So.... I would think that Atlanta gets the better end of the deal.

[Dragitoff]

How so? What other point guards can rebound, pass, and score (other than rondo)? Don't get me wrong, I love Teague, but Kyle Lowry is better than him at the point guard position. Plus we get a draft pick and Scola. So.... I would think that Atlanta gets the better end of the deal.

He will only be happy if we get Deron Williams, Steve Nash, or any other PG that we don't have the $ to get. Personally, I like the move other than the draft pick selection(s). If Lowry is our starting PG, I'd be less worried about using one of those picks on another PG. I'd be more focused on SF and PF/C depth.

[Joker]

How so? What other point guards can rebound, pass, and score (other than rondo)? Don't get me wrong, I love Teague, but Kyle Lowry is better than him at the point guard position. Plus we get a draft pick and Scola. So.... I would think that Atlanta gets the better end of the deal.

Because our personnel needs a PG who can create. Jeff, as much as he's not a PG. Jeff can defend and score decently. He at least can have near Lowry impact for the Hawks at his peak. Lowry wouldn't make anyone on the team better like Jeff. Lowry is this generation's Mookie Blaylock. Lowry wouldn't really help this personnel grouping. Rondo can create. Big difference. Lowry is better than Jeff. No one is questioning that. But to trade Jeff for Lowry straight up is something you have to think of but to trade Smoove as well is just terrible. Just awful. Atlanta would lose that deal and lose bad. Al would still be the same as well. You don't make a trade without consider how it effect the personnel.

[Joker]

He will only be happy if we get Deron Williams, Steve Nash, or any other PG that we don't have the $ to get.Personally, I like the move other than the draft pick selection(s). If Lowry is our starting PG, I'd be less worried about using one of those picks on another PG. I'd be more focused on SF and PF/C depth.

Playmaking PG's. It's quite obvious why too. Al Horford. You can make Al a #1 option and he can actually be a #1 option and Joe can go to his role as a #2 option as well as Marvin becomes useful. You just answered most of our issues with one move. With this move, we still have Joe as a #1, Lowry now becomes our #2 option, Horford is still a glorified garbage man. Marvin is better but he's still not as useful as you want him to be. No Josh Smith on defense and Jeff off the bench and this is a net lost.Al Horford is the main reason why a playmaking PG is the #1, #2, #3, #4, and #5 biggest need on this team. Edited June 18, 2012 by Joker

[ATLHawks3]

Because our personnel needs a PG who can create. Jeff, as much as he's not a PG. Jeff can defend and score decently. He at least can have near Lowry impact for the Hawks at his peak. Lowry wouldn't make anyone on the team better like Jeff. Lowry is this generation's Mookie Blaylock. Lowry wouldn't really help this personnel grouping. Rondo can create. Big difference. Lowry is better than Jeff. No one is questioning that. But to trade Jeff for Lowry straight up is something you have to think of but to trade Smoove as well is just terrible. Just awful. Atlanta would lose that deal and lose bad. Al would still be the same as well. You don't make a trade without consider how it effect the personnel.

Honestly though, I would think that Lowry is the only talented point guard that we could convince Houston to give us. Again, what other point guard are you seeing can put up numbers like Lowry? You know that guy Josh Smith? You know the guy that would really benefit from him getting out of here? Al Horford. As soon as he leaves, you're talking about Al getting more shot attempts and really seeing the player we selected 3rd overall in the 2007 draft. Question, who was the last Hawk that averaged 20 points and 10 rebounds(I don't really know so im hoping for you to answer that)? Who on this Hawks team has the potential to do that? Joe? Marvin? No, its Horford. All he needs is a talented point guard like Lowry to set him up, and we're getting close to contention. Oh wait, I forgot, the Hawks are also getting a proven power forward in Scola to help compliment the front court. A guy who can give you 16-7, set you good screens, and a good teammate. I know that Smith is better than Scola, but you also have to think that Scola's numbers are respectable for a power forward and it will be beneficial for this Hawks team and the fact that you are getting more production from Horford. This is just the way I see it.

[Joker]

We won't get Dragic as he is a FA. He would be the one I would want without a question. He can create for others. Al can't create his own offense, more shots won't change that, he would just be less efficient. You have to understand fits and groupings to understand my point. Josh got a lot more shots, in fact he was 7th in the NBA in FGA. He scored 18.8 ppg. That wasn't good at all. If anything our offense would be worse and Lowry will get the bulk of Smoove shots as Lowry can be a bit of a chucker at times.Lowry is not a set up guy, he never has been. Expecting that of him would be false. He doesn't have that skill-set. You might as well hope that Jeff does that. It would be just as realistic as Lowry. We need a playmaker. Just a talented PG is not the fit. Scola would come off the bench and even then he is making 9 mil, that's not bad until you quickly realize this team isn't close to a title and Scola is overpaid. Scola is a solid PF like Glen Davis, Bass, Anderson, and guys like that. He is not respectable enough to make this trade as well as that pick. Not at all. I don't think you understand how important efficiency is. It's the difference between Pau Gasol in Memphis and Pau Gasol in LAL. Makes players go from overpaid to potential HOF.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Joker

[ATLHawks3]

Darn my forgetfullness, I also left out the fact that we have a draft pick. What position should we use it on? I would choose the PG position and I would change Rivers for Marshall, the best true PG in this draft. With the #23 pick, I would either get Jeff Taylor, or Royce White (I would go with Royce because he's more aggressive and he's tough). With the #43 I would get the best avalible talent that's still on the board (Maybe Shooting Guard like Orlando Johnson).

[Joker]

Darn my forgetfullness, I also left out the fact that we have a draft pick. What position should we use it on? I would choose the PG position and I would change Rivers for Marshall, the best true PG in this draft. With the #23 pick, I would either get Jeff Taylor, or Royce White (I would go with Royce because he's more aggressive and he's tough). With the #43 I would get the best avalible talent that's still on the board (Maybe Shooting Guard like Orlando Johnson).

If we landed Lowry, I doubt ASG would take a PG. If anything they would take Wroten. I can see ASG stupidity a mile away.

[ATLHawks3]

If we landed Lowry, I doubt ASG would take a PG. If anything they would take Wroten. I can see ASG stupidity a mile away.

At the #14 or #23?

[Joker]

At the #14 or #23?

Second round.

[ATLHawks3]

Second round.

Wroten goes after the #25 and before the #30.

We won't get Dragic as he is a FA. He would be the one I would want without a question. He can create for others. Al can't create his own offense, more shots won't change that, he would just be less efficient. You have to understand fits and groupings to understand my point. Josh got a lot more shots, in fact he was 7th in the NBA in FGA. He scored 18.8 ppg. That wasn't good at all. If anything our offense would be worse and Lowry will get the bulk of Smoove shots as Lowry can be a bit of a chucker at times.Lowry is not a set up guy, he never has been. Expecting that of him would be false. He doesn't have that skill-set. You might as well hope that Jeff does that. It would be just as realistic as Lowry. We need a playmaker. Just a talented PG is not the fit. Scola would come off the bench and even then he is making 9 mil, that's not bad until you quickly realize this team isn't close to a title and Scola is overpaid. Scola is a solid PF like Glen Davis, Bass, Anderson, and guys like that. He is not respectable enough to make this trade as well as that pick. Not at all. I don't think you understand how important efficiency is. It's the difference between Pau Gasol in Memphis and Pau Gasol in LAL. Makes players go from overpaid to potential HOF.

And what do you mean that Lowry's going to be the #1 option? He only attempts about 10 shots per game. He averaged 6.6 assists per game, but here in Atlanta you have a guy in Al Horford and Joe Johnson who are capable of making shots, and with him utilizing his speed to find people he can easily average 8-9 assists in Atlanta. I get efficiency but i also get potential as well, and Kyle Lowry has alot of it. And it would be at it's maximum in Atlanta. Edited June 18, 2012 by ATLHawks3

[Joker]

Wroten goes after the #25 and before the #30.And what do you mean that Lowry's going to be the #1 option? He only attempts about 10 shots per game. He averaged 6.6 assists per game, but here in Atlanta you have a guy in Al Horford and Joe Johnson who are capable of making shots, and with him utilizing his speed to find people he can easily average 8-9 assists in Atlanta. I get efficiency but i also get potential as well, and Kyle Lowry has alot of it. And it would be at it's maximum in Atlanta.

Joe would still be the #1 option. Lowry would be #2. Most of Lowry assist come within the offense like Mookie's. It's not like he is creating anyone shot. Lowry has peaked. He is what he is. A good defensive minded PG who can score and shoot well.

[ATLHawks3]

Joe would still be the #1 option. Lowry would be #2. Most of Lowry assist come within the offense like Mookie's. It's not like he is creating anyone shot. Lowry has peaked. He is what he is. A good defensive minded PG who can score and shoot well.

Gah. This is where I don't agree, I believe it should be Al as the #1 option, then Joe, then Kyle. Al needs to finally get his 20-10 season and I believe he can do it after this trade.

[Joker]

Gah. This is where I don't agree, I believe it should be Al as the #1 option, then Joe, then Kyle. Al needs to finally get his 20-10 season and I believe he can do it after this trade.

How can he be the #1 option when he wouldn't guarder the attention. Shots don't make you a #1 option as Josh proved this year. Al can't be a 20-10 player when he can't create his own offense and no one can do it for him. Lowry doesn't help in that department. He is just as useful as Teague in terms of creating for others. I think you are miscalculating what Lowry is like posters here do Jeff. Edited June 18, 2012 by Joker

[Guest Walter]

Lowry wouldn't make anyone on the team better like Jeff.

Honestly, this is about as fair as any trade can be. It's a +1 for Houston and a -1 for Atlanta on the ESPN trade machine NOT counting the #14 pick. Joker, FYI it simply sounds like you have unrealistic trade expectations for JS in a contract year after it has become known he wants out of ATL. IMO, you have unrealistic trade expectations for JS at any time, with any conditions. Now, having said that, I would not prefer and might not do this trade. I would do a... Martin/Lowry/14 or 16 for JS/TeagueORMartin/Lowry/Scola 14 and 16 for JS/Teague/MW/23rd (as if that kind of trade would ever happen).W

[Joker]

Honestly, this is about as fair as any trade can be. It's a +1 for Houston and a -1 for Atlanta on the ESPN trade machine NOT counting the #14 pick. Joker, FYI it simply sounds like you have unrealistic trade expectations for JS in a contract year after it has become known he wants out of ATL. IMO, you have unrealistic trade expectations for JS at any time, with any conditions. Now, having said that, I would not prefer and might not do this trade. I would do a...Martin/Lowry/14 or 16 for JS/TeagueORMartin/Lowry/Scola 14 and 16 for JS/Teague/MW/23rd (as if that kind of trade would ever happen).W

It's not about what you think or not. It's about personnel groupings and fit. You seems to have that part go right over your head. Lowry doesn't make the team better. We lose an high impact player for two mid impact guys. In the NBA, you lose deals like that every single time. Lowry is a better player than Teague but he doesn't make the team better and Teague potential as a player is just as high as Lowry if not better. That deal it's self would be a wash. Scola/pick for Smith is a terrible deal. Now if Lowry was a playmaking PG who would be a KEY piece to the puzzle, he would be worth more to us than he currently is but he isn't. This isn't so hard to understand. Do you guys understand personnel grouping? Just getting talent to get talent doesn't win. You have to have fit and the pieces to win or you end up like the New York Knicks. You guys have to understand the game better. Just putting players together any kind of way is why the Hawks look the way they do right now.

[Joker]

Our talent.Marvin- movement player. Spot up 3pt shooter. Great size. Very good athlete. Good defender. Very poor on the ball.Horford- movement player. PnR specialist. Elite BBIQ. Great size and quickness as a PF. Elite mid range shooter. Great ability. Can't create his own offense.Joe Johnson- Very good at mostly everything but elite at nothing. Excellent spot up shooter. Playmaker for his position. Good overall defender. Not a #1 option.Those are our big contract guys. To get them to fit, we need a playmaking PG. We get them to fit, we are a much better team than we are now. We don't and we get worse especially without Smith on defense.

[Guest Walter]

It's not about what you think or not. It's about personnel groupings and fit. You seems to have that part go right over your head. Lowry doesn't make the team better. We lose an high impact player for two mid impact guys.

I agree and I would not do the deal, but it is a "fair" deal. Statistically it's about dead even. You are right, fit is the issue for me. "Right over my head"? I disagree and believe that Lowry does make the team better than Teague, but not enough so that I want to trade JS for Scola/14/and a little improvement at the Pg position. It's close which is why I offered up counters. W