How does the Pop-ford model in SA inform what we should expect now from the Bud-cox system?

[sturt]

Who will make which decisions?

 

How will decisions like the #15 pick get made... will their policy be that if, say one wants Portis and the other wants Dekker, one simply will overrule the other? Or do they go the compromise route if they both agree on, say, Lyles as their the second-favorite?

 

Have you read about how they did any of their trades? Am I right that Buford is responsible for initiating trade discussions with IND to obtain Leonard, and that while Pop had veto authority and he had a hard time parting with Hill... in the end, he just didn't pull the plug on the deal?

 

I haven't studied SA well enough to know how their management system works. And, of course, no one has actually come out and said that we're replicating SA's model, but from the outside, it sure would seem like everything points that way.

 

I have to admit, though I was one who hated to see Ferry let go and didn't really feel there was nearly enough substance for him to have gotten the treatment he did, I do like this idea (if I'm not assuming too much) that seemingly one person will not be in total control of the ship. And too, I get it that it doesn't really matter what I think of the substance... perception just means too much, and you don't want to set up unnecessary potential obstacles for yourself if you don't have to.

 

 

[Guest]

In San Antonio it's a collaborative effort. Everyone including assistant coaches, video coord. gets a chance to voice their opinions. Pop said if you're afraid to speak your mind he has no use for you.

On the GHill/Kawhi trade, Hill was a Pop favorite. After losing the previous, season Buford knew they had to get bigger. He, Bud etc had to convince Pop that trading GHill was the right move.

[sturt]

Okay, I get it that everyone has a voice... maybe didn't realize that that included the video guy, but okay... still, someone gets the final call, or otherwise, there's got to be some preordained protocol among Pop and Buford, right?

[Guest]

Okay, I get it that everyone has a voice... maybe didn't realize that that included the video guy, but okay... still, someone gets the final call, or otherwise, there's got to be some preordained protocol among Pop and Buford, right?

It would seem that Pop has the final say since Buford and Bud had to convince him trading Hill it was the right move.

[sturt]

Maybe. But then again, maybe it's just that there was a standing protocol that any trade had to have unanimous agreement among Buford and Pop, or among Buford, Pop and even others like Bud (?).

[bumpyphish1]

Bud gets the final say.  He'll have to sign off on every decision.  Pretty sure of that.

[sturt]

Again, I concur with that much--he will have to approve of everything done, I'm sure.

 

But what I'm trying to get at is the rest--is it his approval alone, or does Wilcox also have to approve? Or, as JayBird brought up, how many others might be part of the decision-making process, and do any of those also get a vote? Or/and, are some decisions to be handled in different ways?

[atlhawks1]

Im pretty sure Wes is just the salary cap man.............

[sturt]

So, is that your idea of what Buford is, or are you inclined to think that we're not actually following the SA model here?

[Guest]

So, is that your idea of what Buford is, or are you inclined to think that we're not actually following the SA model here?

Buford is not just the salary cap guy, he is there top lead scout. He convinced Pop as assistant GM to select Tony Parker, scouted and selected Manu, he built there international pipeline. Edited June 20, 2015 by JayBirdHawk

[IheartVolt]

Buford is not just the salary cap guy, he is there top lead scout. He convinced Pop as assistant GM to select Tony Parker, scouted and selected Manu, he built there international pipeline.

Don't say that dirty European word to loudly. The haters on the board will get butt hurt over a European white guy on the team. Example: Pero Antić

[thescout5]

All I care about is if he can play. If there is another Ginobili or splitter out there than get him. Finding those gem players (Parker,Manu, Leonard) is the difference between averge to great. We don't have a Duncan but Hawks could sure use some difference makers especially at end of games. 

[MaceCase]

Again, I concur with that much--he will have to approve of everything done, I'm sure.

But what I'm trying to get at is the rest--is it his approval alone, or does Wilcox also have to approve? Or, as JayBird brought up, how many others might be part of the decision-making process, and do any of those also get a vote? Or/and, are some decisions to be handled in different ways?

I think it operates much the same as any other front office just in that the person with final say is obviously more in touch with the current roster. You'd imagine any other front office has a GM or president and he has his team of scouts and lawyers under him parsing the world for talent and ways to make it work under the CBA. Only thing that matters is how open said GM/president is to input from his underlings (overlords). The scouts can say a guy is a future star, the coach can be badgering for more vets, the lawyers could be cautioning over cap implications and the owner can be yelling for a way to sell tickets.

Any GM/President can have their own opinion but they just as easily can be swayed if not motivated (or downright overruled) by any of those outside factors. I believe that San Antonio operated in that everyone was all on the same page so that any disagreements really boiled down to "should we place a comma here or a full stop? Is this a good spot for a paragraph break or does the prose still flow well?". Each level all knew and respected all the factors between market, culture and winning, I doubt that they were having arguments with each other over trading for Iverson. There was a set mandate over continuity, finding pieces to fit that culture and being cap conscious and thus you have guys all wading in the same pool instead of fishing in other bodies of water creating any great amount of dissension.

So as it stands as a more concise answer to your query, I think Bud and Wilcox are already operating within the same sphere so that, if need be, one doesn't fully mind acquiescing to the other. I believe that that was the setup that Ferry established with his culture change and thus why he felt the need to cut off all of those who may have had opinions outside of said sphere. I don't think they need to each 100% agree on a particular prospect or player but that they'd feel confident with either decision rather than forcing themselves to find a compromise over a guy neither are as high on.

The part of the equation that you are leaving out and what truly remains to be seen is how much autonomy new ownership gives the two. Bud and Wilcox may be on the same course regardless of whether they have a difference of opinion over the exact details to traverse it but new ownership may decide on a new heading altogether.

[sturt]

First, given that last paragraph, I think I should repeat that I recognize the presumption in my premise--we don't know that the structure is intended to be modeled off of SA's structure... so, in fact, I didn't actually leave it out that we don't know ownership's perspective, but rather I just said it in a different way.

 

There is a difference, though, between how things are now going to be structured and what we had under Ferry, who seemed pretty clearly to be the guy at the center of every player personnel activity. Ferry the GM no doubt was big on consulting others, but in the end, it was him as the GM who made the call to the agents, who negotiated at least the fundamentals of all of the contracts, who made the draft choices, and who oversaw scouting and the all the rest of the traditional GM roles.

 

If only in name (but, too, maybe not), this is going to be different. The GM's job description almost certainly reads differently, and the traditional concept of the coach answering to the GM is confounded by the coach being also the President. So, if the President is now the GM, and the GM is actually the assistant GM still, but we just call him the GM for whatever reason instead of just giving the coach that title, how does this play out in the day-to-day responsibilities... and again, is it true that Bud had a vote in SA, and if so, is it true that the structure extends votes beyond not just the GM and not just the HC, but to others as well?

 

You probably can tell... just being someone who has a general interest in how organizations structure themselves to be most productive/efficient, it's just an intriguing thing to me... particularly because we have this age-old traditional structure that's being reconstituted in a few places like ATL and SA. The latter is now regarded as a legitimate structure, and the former is, at least thought to be, in the process of being modeled off the latter, and if so, may serve as the "next thing" among the franchises... or maybe not.

Edited June 21, 2015 by sturt