Apparently Horford will speak out about his fathers comments

[RandomFan]

37 minutes ago, AUhawksfan said:

I think money was a huge part of course but Dwight may have made Horford feel slighted even if he's not going to come out and say it.  Either way, I don't really care that much about the guy to go back and forth on it.  Just my opinion/speculation.

Interesting on the Koonin note about Sap though.  Is there a link/source?  I never heard anything about it and would love to know they cleared the air with him.

Dwight taking $5M per year less than what Whorefart wanted probably should have made him feel embarrassed, not slighted.

Regarding Koonin, it's from 3 or 4 days ago when he was on 92.9 The Game and it was talked about a good bit around here. IIRC it's in the SummerHawks thread somewhere. Basically, our intention was to keep all three of Howard, Horf, and Sap and the trade rumors thrown around had no substance to them - so there is no air needed to be cleared with Sap in the first place.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

Dwight taking $5M per year less than what Whorefart wanted probably should have made him feel embarrassed, not slighted.

Regarding Koonin, it's from 3 or 4 days ago when he was on 92.9 The Game and it was talked about a good bit around here. IIRC it's in the SummerHawks thread somewhere. Basically, our intention was to keep all three of Howard, Horf, and Sap and the trade rumors thrown around had no substance to them - so there is no air needed to be cleared with Sap in the first place.

I think the 'slighted' part had more to do with how Howard was going to be the unquestioned #1 attention-getter over him.

[AUhawksfan]

4 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I think the 'slighted' part had more to do with how Howard was going to be the unquestioned #1 attention-getter over him.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at. 

[RandomFan]

11 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I think the 'slighted' part had more to do with how Howard was going to be the unquestioned #1 attention-getter over him.

For one thing, I don't see how Whorefart would reach that conclusion.

And second, even if he did conclude that, it would only prove that Whorefart is a lil bitch afraid of competition. I've been extremely critical of him since he made his pansy decision, but being afraid of competition is something that all of his teammates seem to contradict.

Which leads us back to what I said origianlly, it's all about butthurt over not being fawned over and offered a truckload of money. And since in the end it was only over $4-6M total on the contract, that would mean it mostly has to do with his butthurt over not being "appreciated" like he wanted to be. 

Edited July 12, 2016 by RandomFan

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

For one thing, I don't see how Whorefart would reach that conclusion.

And second, even if he did conclude that, it would only prove that Whorefart is a lil bitch afraid of competition. I've been extremely critical of him since he made his pansy decision, but being afraid of competition is something that all of his teammates seem to contradict.

Which leads us back to what I said origianlly, it's all about butthurt over not being fawned over and offered a truckload of money. And since in the end it was only over $4-6M total on the contract, that would mean it mostly has to do with his butthurt over not being "appreciated" like he wanted to be. 

I gotta disagree, Rando First Blood.

Anyone who watch Alicia from year 1 to 9 can see he shied away from contact after the 2nd pec tear.  Of course his teammates won't call him out.  He's largely been a decent guy to them.  No one calls anyone out in the NBA unless they're given a reason to.  Alicia never really did, thus he keeps the "hard worker", "lunch pail guy" label which he stopped earning years ago.

I think he most certainly is afraid of competition (mainly afraid of competing for attention/the top spot) in addition to being butthurt of not being "appreciated".

[Watchman]

2 hours ago, AUhawksfan said:

I think money was a huge part of course but Dwight may have made Horford feel slighted even if he's not going to come out and say it.  Either way, I don't really care that much about the guy to go back and forth on it.  Just my opinion/speculation.

Interesting on the Koonin note about Sap though.  Is there a link/source?  I never heard anything about it and would love to know they cleared the air with him.

I heard Koonin say that on 92.9 last week.

[Gray Mule]

"Dad, you're a liar."  Or, perhaps, "Did I really say that?  I didn't mean to do it!"  "Gee, dad.  I didn't really

mean for it to sound like that.  I know.  I said it but, when I hear you repeat my words, well, Gee, dad,

what can I say."

"Good gosh, dad.  Now, everyone will know how I really feel.  I've got to do something to try to fix this."

 

[yardbird]

I fault management.  When you can outbid any other team in the league, why lose Horford over $5 million?  Over 5 years?  And the full MLE gone too.  We'd have had an awesome team the next few years, now we'll also lose Millsap next year with no realistic replacement.  Pennywise and pound foolish.

You have to stroke players egos to be competitive in today's NBA.  You don't play hardball over $5 to $17 million over 5 years.

[RandomFan]

24 minutes ago, yardbird said:

I fault management.  When you can outbid any other team in the league, why lose Horford over $5 million?  Over 5 years?  And the full MLE gone too.  We'd have had an awesome team the next few years, now we'll also lose Millsap next year with no realistic replacement.  Pennywise and pound foolish.

You have to stroke players egos to be competitive in today's NBA.  You don't play hardball over $5 to $17 million over 5 years.

Ermm, I applaud management. Horford wasn't worth what we DID offer him, but they were nice and gave the longtime Hawk what most rational people consider a more than fair offer. Horford is the one that turned us down over $4-6M over 5 years, not the other way around. And if you are going to criticize the Hawks for the way they handled this, then you are going to have to criticize the Spurs for how they have done business for the last 2 decades, because they do the exact same thing.

They built that franchise on convincing their players to take a little less than top dollar on the open market in order to consistenly field a more competitive team and play on a winner year after year. Duncan was the prime example of this. Horford proves once again that he is no Tim Duncan because he valued the money and butt-kissing over being a team player and actually doing all he could to build a championship roster.

[yardbird]

1 hour ago, RandomFan said:

Ermm, I applaud management. Horford wasn't worth what we DID offer him, but they were nice and gave the longtime Hawk what most rational people consider a more than fair offer. Horford is the one that turned us down over $4-6M over 5 years, not the other way around. And if you are going to criticize the Hawks for the way they handled this, then you are going to have to criticize the Spurs for how they have done business for the last 2 decades, because they do the exact same thing.

They built that franchise on convincing their players to take a little less than top dollar on the open market in order to consistenly field a more competitive team and play on a winner year after year. Duncan was the prime example of this. Horford proves once again that he is no Tim Duncan because he valued the money and butt-kissing over being a team player and actually doing all he could to build a championship roster.

We held our ground.  We made Boston better and the Hawks weaker.  Because we wanted to save $5 million over 5 years.  We'll face a choice next year of paying much more annually to an older Paul Millsap.  When players are bringing in as much as they are these days, we will lose talent and games while standing on principle.  That isn't smart business, IMO.

Al has shortcomings, but also many strengths that we'll grudgingly appreciate more in the seasons to come.  He is virtually the prototypical stretch 4/5 who can defend PnR AND lead a fastbreak off of a rebound.  What the Spurs did in the last 2 decades was under different circumstances, when players either didn't have or didn't exercise the free agency freedom we've seen since the Miami SuperFriends, and especially the last two years with the new TV deal.  Toronto didn't hesitate with DeRozan, Memphis didn't hesitate with Conley, why did Atlanta offer Horford less on an annual basis than Boston when he had all the leverage and we had none?  To prove to him that he wasn't worth more? 

We would have been much better off paying him the additional dollars and having a happy player, who we could trade for assets next year if we chose.   Even to Boston for developing players and Brooklyn picks in December.  Instead, arguably our best player is gone, with nothing in return.  Poor management decision.  Talented players call the shots in the NBA once they become UFAs, not management.  That's the reality today.  Unless we adjust to the circumstances, we'll forever be behind.

Edited July 13, 2016 by yardbird
another point

[RandomFan]

1 hour ago, yardbird said:

We held our ground.  We made Boston better and the Hawks weaker.  Instead, arguably our best player is gone, with nothing in return.  Poor management decision.  Talented players call the shots in the NBA once they become UFAs, not management.  That's the reality today.  Unless we adjust to the circumstances, we'll forever be behind.

We're weaker? No, we aren't...

Our best player isn't gone. Millsap is still here. And Howard will prove this year that he's still better than Horford, and for $5 million per year less. (Yay management, good job)

 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, RandomFan said:

We're weaker? No, we aren't...

Our best player isn't gone. Millsap is still here. And Howard will prove this year that he's still better than Horford, and for $5 million per year less. (Yay management, good job)

 

Spot-on here, Rando Calrissian.

Also not sure how the guy says players run the league when it comes to unrestricted free agency, but losing Al for nothing was a bad management decision?  

[yardbird]

Read what I said.  Millsap will probably be gone at year end for nothing, unless we sign him long term at $35 million per year.  We could have signed Al for another $5 million over 5 years, and at least traded him for other pieces down the road.  Could have had Howard, Horford and Millsap this year, or traded Sap (who I really like) for other assets.  I had season tickets since Al's rookie year, and have supported team management throughout, including the loss of DeMarre.

Losing Horford over $5 million wasn't a good decision.

[RandomFan]

5 hours ago, yardbird said:

Read what I said.  Millsap will probably be gone at year end for nothing, unless we sign him long term at $35 million per year.  We could have signed Al for another $5 million over 5 years, and at least traded him for other pieces down the road.  Could have had Howard, Horford and Millsap this year, or traded Sap (who I really like) for other assets.  I had season tickets since Al's rookie year, and have supported team management throughout, including the loss of DeMarre.

Losing Horford over $5 million wasn't a good decision.

I'm going to go out on an early limb here and say Sap resigns with us for 3 years and around $90M total. He'll leave money on the table to stay here. He did it on his most recent contract where he took a little less.

And you can't say Millsap will be gone unless we pay him $35M per. You don't know that. And losing Horford wasn't our decision, it was HIS. He's the one that decided $5M was worth leaving over. And frankly, he did us a favor in the end.

[yardbird]

Your opinion.  I'll leave it at that.  I hope the Hawks do well, which requires them to be smart.