The Standard BK Must Meet

[swolehawk2]

Hype can play a vital part....Deron hyped his way to a the 3rd pick....but I think the determining factor for Marvin was potential...that is what he was drafted for...just like Dwight Howard....or Josh Smith.....or Sebastian Telfair...Darko...etc....

Marvin has the most potential to be the better basketball player.....I don't think Paul as talented as he is ....and I love his talent, will ever be able to stop penetration...just like JT........major flaw when it is cruch time in a playoff series....I also don't think Deron will have great range or be able to consistently penetrate....not a good combination....he still looks slow....I don't know where the Kidd comparisons came from....

Bottom line is 3-4 years from now we can judge the actions of BK...til then its anybodys guess.

[Nicholasp27]

why must he?

WHO can he fill it with?

daly/chandler are the only legit centers for our future that are available and both teams will match max deals, so bk doesn't have a chance...u can't blame him for that...he also couldn't get a decent big man in the draft as bogut was gone

so then we go to pg...what pg is available that he can get? exactly

the ONLY criticism u can say about him this offseason is that he took marvin over deron...that's the ONLY way he coulda gotten pg or center filled...and he took the future superstar over the future role-playing pg

u can add those last pieces when our guys are ready, but they aren't yet...if there are no pg/c available (there aren't) then u can't get a pg/c

he may work on deals with al for darko/magloire/etc but if the other team won't bite, what can he do?

ur blaming him because the league has a lack of big men and because good pgs are a dime a dozen but most of the good ones are unavailable?

[falc82]

I hope Marvin Williams becomes a great player for years to come and plays a vital role with this team. I dont think that his talent level is that much higher than Chris Paul's however, and the only way taking Marvin is acceptable is if we are able to fill our holes as a team elsewhere...and we cant this offseason. BK may get a pass on this one since next year is a PG draft, but then why are we offering the max to JJ to be our PG of the future? It's time we stop thinking as BK as a top GM in the league, as a genious, or even a great GM untill we see the results. Josh Smith and Salim to me were great picks. Marvin was a good pick and we'll have to see but I think we should have at least considered taking Paul or more importantly traded for Jack. Childress was a good pick but maybe we should have gone with the new AI. He's more of a natural SG and could be the Shawn Marion of SGs. I'm on the fence about BK, and unless he does something with this FA or next offseason to change my mind, then at that time he deserves to be let go.

[Diesel]

But I'm concerned about his lack of respect for positions. I think that you can't call anybody 6'9 a 1-4 and hope for a C. That doesn't work. I think you have to respect the skills required for certain positions, especially the PG. If anything causes his downfall, I think it will be that!

[KB21]

Arguing against that is living in the real world.

Free agency doesn't matter. The only time free agency will matter is when it comes time to resign our own guys we have DRAFTED and developed.

Giving a max deal to Tyson Chandler is just the type of deal that will cripple your salary structure for the future, because he will never be worth that kind of money.

Joe Johnson is the only free agent that is worth what he is being offered, and if Phoenix matches the offer, how is that a failure for the Hawks? It isn't.

[KB21]

His vision of length and athleticism will be copied by other teams once that vision comes to frutition. In a copy cat league, other GM's will be trying to copy what BK is doing.

He's bucking the old school trend, and that's what you don't like. It figures that a die hard Lenny Wilkens lover would stick with the antiquated ways some other GMs think.

[falc82]

BK has done much more wrong than just pass up Paul/Deron for Marvin KB. Maybe that turns out to be the right pick, but right now we need a PG that can mature and grow with this team.

Theo/Shareef should have gotten much more than what they did. We could have held onto them and traded Shareef alone this offseason for a first. Theo, Nazr, and Pryz are all decent centers that we have had yet we no longer have them. The draft and RFA arent the only ways we could have gotten a good center. We could have held onto Nazr/Pryz for cheap. Also we could and should have gotten MUCH more for Nazr if we had held onto him a bit longer. BK's drafts are questionable even though I think they could turn out well. However, Diaw over Howard, Childress over Iguodala, and yes Marvin over Paul/Deron could all come back to haunt us. Perhaps these were the right picks but they werent slam dunks by any means. I think his idea for building a team could leaves us with tons of players with potential but all thrown out of posistion, with serious holes at C and PG that could have been filled. There are fans who question BK and what he is doing, we've been thrown around with Babcock and his horrible moves for so long that its made us to where we're not going to wholeheartedly trust BK right away. I have my doubts about what he is doing and what he has done thus far as do other fans. Take off your rose colored glasses KB and you'll see that BK has made some questionable moves thus far. Hopefully these will work out, and I think some of them can, but its no sure thing at all. The Nazr/Pryz moves were just plain stupid because we got no value at all in return for young talented Centers that we could really use right now. I have my doubts about JJ playing PG for a championship team one day. We'll have to wait and see, but BK hasn't shown me enough to give my full confidence in him at this time.

[Inside_Man]

We can't judge BK on whether or not JJ comes here. If JJ signs the offer, BK has done his job. If JJ signs the offer, it's because he sees the potential of the young talent BK has brought here and he wants to be a part of our future. That means BK has done is job.

If Phoenix matches, we can't blame BK and say 'he couldn't get a FA!" That's idiotic.

There's a tiping point in building good teams, 'critical mass' if you will. It's the point where everyone will want to be a Hawk. But after we get there, we won't have the cap space for the stars who are going to want to come anyway. If JJ comes, good centers will fall over themselves to be a part of the new Hawks.

I like the draft picks of the two Joshes, Marvin and Salim.

I like the type of players BK wants to bring.

I'll wait as long as it takes.

JJ might be matched, Curry uninsurable, and Chandler gets a Max from Chicago. If those things happen, it's not BK's fault. But I bet we get Zaza, and maybe something for Al, and with our kids getting more experience I bet we win over 20 games without signing a single big FA. And eventually, they will come. We will reach the tipping point. And then I hope I have enough dough for season tickets.

[Diesel]

Tell me.. Which draftpick did Babcock take that was need based??

That's why Babcock was so a lousy drafter.

For the whole time Babcock was here, we were in need of a Sf, he never picked one in the draft.

He picked a whole lot of SGs like Big Baller Ed Gray and Donnie Boyce and Conzo Martin. He picked some Big men and called them BPA like Priest Latterdale...

BUT NO need players.

In fact, Babcock's Hawks were never high enough to choose for need.

[Diesel]

Quote:

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Sure they do, it's called taking the best available player. It's common enough that it has its own phrase.

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Other than us and the Bulls (who got the imperative from the Jordan acquisition)...

Name some instances where there was truly a BPA pick that went against an equal Need pick. I think this is a notion that is talked about and boasted about but can you give some examples of this trend that you support??

[swolehawk2]

What....he did draft the mighty Roshown McLeod in 98 to fill our SF position for the long term....LOL

[tmac13]

Why did BK go to great lengths to get us way under the cap?..Come on, free agency is something that both BK and the ownership group has talked about for a year and a half now, ever since we started dismantling the team..If we walk away from this years free agency empty handed it is a huge failure..So far his one major target is a shooting guard that we are going to overpay greatly for and change his position..We are basing our entire future on a basketball theory that is yet unproven..Everytime this comes up I ask you the same question KB, in a JJ/Chilz backcourt who guards, Wade, Marbury, Chauncy, Iverson, Chris Paul or any of the other quick guards?..You never answer the question..We are supposedly basing our team on defense and yet we are handicapping ourselves again by looking for a physical type instead of a basketball player..I like JJ, but no way in hell he can guard Iverson,Wade, or Marbury..I will go as far as saying BK's vision and ego sometimes stomp out practicality and winning basketball games. Why not pursue Duhon? Why not pursue Dooling?, Why not draft Paul instead of duplicating what we already had?..We are still trying to find some pg skills in Diaw when obviously he can't play the position..In the rocky mountain review he had 20 turnovers and 15 assists..That is horrible..Yet we keep trying to turn him into a point guard cause he is long. I will be a Hawks fan till the day I die, I will support them whatever they do, I just want to see some progress made, I am tired of hearing about BK's philospy while we get killed every game. Neither Detroit or San Antonio had 6'8" point guards yet they managed to get by.

[falc82]

Babcock may have been the worst GM ever. If we hadnt traded away 3 first rounders for Glenn Robinson and Lorenzo Wright then we would have Amare Stoudamire and TJ Ford on this team. That added to what we already have would have been deadly. We would have been the best up and coming team in the league. When it comes to drafting and dealing draft picks Babcock is as bad as they come. He was a good GM for trading and building a vet team and thats why the Hawks were good with Lenny here during those 50 win seasons. He just could never add that quality depth or add that one player through the draft to put us on top. It's a shame to because I think we had something in those days. One more scorer and a SF.

[Diesel]

That's true!

We could have had Al, Davis or a whole lot of other jokers...

forgot about that one.

[TnDawg]

I have noticed that none of these post takes in consideration that part of the reason we may miss out is the delays due to the CBA. Is it BKs fault that it ran out in the year that we have alot of money to spend. What happens if the salary cap comes in at around $52 million instead of the supposed $48-49 that most teams predict. Given the higher possible cap and the time that teams gained to manuever, giving them more time to explore more options (screwing us) in making deals involving players we may have considered. Would it still be BKs fault if we are left with alot of room to try next year rather than overspending on players who aren't worth it? If so, I would like to Thank him for staying the course and not reacting to outside pressure. I think we are on the way to something good. I like our core guys and we only need serviceable players at the 1 and 5 spots to continue to improve. Unless of course he can swing a deal to get us a quality center. I wouldn't mind taking a chance on Curry, but I may be just as happy for the short term if we pick up Zsa Zsa and bring in Anderson. This isn't a short sprint but a long race.

[Admin]

Using your logic that would mean that we wont be getting a PG next year in the draft either, since Rudy Gay might be the best player in the draft. I mean really, we couldnt pass him up to take a lesser player just because he fits a position of need, right? Or does that not matter since that position of need is filled by a player that you personally like.

So, after we draft Rudy Gay next year and have umteenmillion SFs on our roster and no PG and no C, we should suck enough to maybe get Oden in 2007. Is that what you are hoping for? Then, maybe in 2008 we can get a PG out of the draft, since you dont sign FAs to fill needs and FA doesnt matter.

Yeah I agree, giving a max deal to a guy who perfectly fits what you claim BK wants, at a position that we clearly need, who is very young and averages a near double double and blocks shots is definitely something that would cripple us.

[falc82]

Well if we did want to suck up enough in 07 to get Oden and that PG you're talking about in 08 is OJ Mayo then I'm ok with that plan....

But in all seriousness..too much focus is being put on this years FA. Seems like all of the BK supporters are only saying its not his fault if players are matched or he doesnt sign some players due to the CBA. Forget all that for just a moment. I want to hear some of the BK supporters discuss and refute some of his other questionable moves that I've already brought up. Namely every trade outside Jackson for Al. Also, I want to hear one of the BK supporters discuss what Dolfan brought up about him trading away everyone for cap space which he has yet to use on anyone which I thought was a valid point that is getting overlooked. Forget this one offseason free agent peroid. Defend his entire stay as a Hawks GM. He's made mistakes like Nazr/Pryz for nothing, and Theo/Shareef for less than their value. His disregard for posistion is something that concerns me, and I just hope that we're able to field a team one year. So BK supporters, lets discuss some of his pass failures instead of focusing so much on this offseason's free agents and saying its just not his fault..

[Diesel]

It's hopeless...

KB has already stated that he would take Rudy Gay next year. For him, there is no point at which our talent (or potential talent) is good enough to called a certain position closed... So in KB's thinking, we will always be chasing our tail, duplicating positions, and ignoring needs... because of the dreaded... NOT a championship team thought...

Well, last time I looked, there is only one champion per year.... And the only way you get to that level is by having NO holes... Drafting MW when we needed a PG was foolish drafting if MW is not better than available PGs... KB is praying that Williams and Paul are not better than MW...

[superstar]

I think that time will tell with Marvin, I think he may be a superstar, just a year or two ago people questioned picking Josh Smith, some people said he may be the bust of the draft,Well gues What. He wasn't. I like the selections that BK has made especially compared to what we could have gottem.

[falc82]

If Paul or Deron end up playing the same level as Marvin then the Hawks lost out. Marvin has to be much better than Paul and Deron since the only reason we took him is because he was potentially ''BPA''. I think Marvin has what it takes to be that good of a player. But I'm just not sure. Outside of Sjax for Al and picking Salim and Smoove there is nothing that makes me think BK is a good GM. Based on all others moves to this point he is a bad GM.