Plainview1981 Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/h...05/19hawks.html lso today, the Hawks have scheduled a 3 p.m. news conference to announce the completion of the long-delayed, much-litigated trade for Joe Johnson - a trade Belkin had opposed and had used his position as the team's NBA governor to block. In conjunction with the agreement to sell his stake in the teams, Belkin resigned — effective immediately — as the Hawks' NBA governor and was replaced by Gearon. "The differing opinions among Hawks owners over the Joe Johnson trade made it clear that philosophical differences exist over how best to build the Hawks into a winning franchise," NBA commissioner David Stern said today. "I appreciate that Steve has voluntarily resigned as NBA governor in order to ensure that the team can move forward with one voice. I certainly hope that he will consider returning to the NBA as an owner of another franchise in the near future." Sadly, I don't think Belkin lost as much as I and others would ahve hoped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WraithSentinel Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Belkin probably made out quite well in this deal. However, it had to be done. It is now over, hopefully, everyone can get back to business of building this team. This guy will be forever despise in Atl Sports History. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Walter Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Stern wants nothing to do with this guy as owner of an NBA franchise. It's a reverse psych warning or at most lip service. W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lascar78 Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 You know stern, everything has to look good. I'm sure he put heavy pressure on Belkin to sell, and told him that he'd remember it if he ever applied to buy a team in the future (whether that's true or not). Stern knows how to take care of business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted August 19, 2005 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Actually, I believe we opened the door for Belk to get another franchise by giving him more money. I would guess that Belk made about 210-300 Million out of this deal from his original 75 Million he put in. That's a hard hit for the fantastic 8, but I think it was for the best. The one voice thing is important to the growth and success of the franchise. I also believe that Belk is praying or preying that JJ doesn't turn out to be a star. It will give him Owners cred... If So, I can see him with a startup like Las Vegas or St. Louis...Probably as the sole owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lascar78 Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 I can't imagine that he made that much. You're saying he bought in for $75, and they maybe gave him that money back plus 300 million back? So he made 400% profit? I can't imagine that it's even in that range. At most I would think he doubled his money. At MOST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted August 19, 2005 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Know I'm saying he got 210-300 back. Just imagine with me for a moment. Last year, The Phil made the ownership 95 million dollars profit. That's with all the Hockey blackout dates. They have the Philips deal(naming, sponsorship) in place til 2019. The deal that these owners took to get the Phil, the Hawks, and the Thrashers was very cheap. They got it for 250 million all together. OF which Belk paid 75. The original deal that McDavid started with was for 400 million. And that was still under the worth of all three entities. I think AOL just wanted to sell and be out and plus, they knew that it was going to take some work. Well, I suspect that Belkin probably saw that the Phill could probably get you 120 mill per year in profit. If that is the case, he would be missing out on 36 million dollars per year in profit from the Phil alone. Not to mention what he would get from his profit sharing from the NBA and NHL. With the new deal struck from the NHL and NBA, those are windfalls for the owners... I can imagine that he could talk them up to 300 million total in the deal. Now... Why? Because for the longest, both sides couldn't agree. I would imagine that means that Belkin started off with something ridiculously high... Maybe 500 million and 5% profit share. So yeah, i can see him getting 300 million from the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaughtybee Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 If Belkin owns another franchise, that is one less team to worry about contending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lascar78 Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 There is no way in hell that he got anywhere near that amount. I can't prove it of course, but you are waaaaay off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traceman Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 that amount. If he made that much, I'd almost have to admire him for being one of the shrewdest business minds in the world! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lascar78 Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 yeah it's probably somewhere in the 80-100 range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted August 19, 2005 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 He had to make more than 5 - 25 Million off his original Investment. I assume if that were the case, there would have been no discussion from the other owners. I'm thinking that he tripled his original investment at the least. You don't buy cheap and sell cheap.. and that's what you're suggesting.. Here's some facts: Quote: The Hawks franchise is worth $232 million as of Forbes magazine's last valuation calculations. When the team was bought in 2004, it was worth only $208 million. Quote: Hockey franchises are worth an average of $163 million, up 3% from last yea.....The last four expansion teams--the Atlanta Thrashers, Columbus Blue Jackets, Minnesota Wild and Nashville Predators--went for $80 million each in 1997. These teams are now worth an average of $130 million. That coupled with 95 million profit in an off year for the Phil... Do you know how much that should be worth... Let's say Belk decided just to sit it out... Wait until 2009 to sell his share. The Arena profit alone would be let's say 400 million and that's a lowball estimate. Of that he would get 30%. That's 120 million dollars. Not to mention the profit he would get from the NBA and the NHL... So in order to give that up, he's not taking home less... That would be STUPID on his part. He didn't do this stunt to be STUPID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage11 Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 I am just glad by year's end Belkin will be outta here. Party, Party!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lascar78 Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 I don't think you understand big business economics. The way you're factoring arena profits is completely wrong. The expected profits of the Phil are factored into the amount they bought the Phil for. Has the cumulative worth of Philips+Hawks+Thrashers gone up alot since he took over? Probably not. Hawks up a little, Thrashers down a little, Philips probably about the same. So his share is worth roughly the same amount, maybe a little bit more (5-10% at very most). They will give him a little extra for his trouble and to make him go away faster, but they are not paying him 3 times what his share is worth, that's absolutely ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted August 20, 2005 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Again.. You miss the point. They bought in really cheap. They caught AOL at a really weak moment and they got in at more than 150 Million dollars cheaper than AOL's original asking price WHICH Was LESS than the true worth of all the entities. IF Atlanta Spirit LLC were to sell 30% of what they own, do you really think they would sell it at the same price that they bought it?? Let me take you through SMALL WORLD ECONOMY to show you something. You buy a 68' Mustang... It has the 351 Cleveland Big Block engine in it. It has only 12k miles on it because it's a collectors item. Original paint, Orignal tires, Original seats. Not 1 scratch on it and no oxidation damage. The guy who you bought it from knows absolutely nothing about cars. He got it when his dad died and willed it to him. The guy you buy it from doesn't have the space to keep it and really doesn't want to deal with this car. He sells it to you for $5000. You have this fine piece of Vintage American Machinary and it only costed you $5000 dollars. Do you mean to tell me that when you sell You will sell it for $6000? That's what your saying Belk did? You're saying that he bought something "on the low" and he's going to sell it for just a little more than he bought it for?? I say HELL NO. Belk probably called all his accountants in, figured out the true worth of each entity and how much he would stand to make over the next 20 yrs and he made those guys pay . Just for farther proof that what I say is true. The Atlanta Spirit deal costed 250 million total. The Hawks are worth 232 Million right now. Philips Arena is a CASH COW putting out 95 million dollars in profit in a year where a great number of it's dates were blackout dates due to Hockey not playing and missing the NHL allstar game. No way that Belk sells for any less than 3 times what he put in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nurlman Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Quote: Philips Arena is a CASH COW putting out 95 million dollars in profit in a year where a great number of it's dates were blackout dates due to Hockey not playing and missing the NHL allstar game. Where is this number coming from? With a thumbnail valuation, if this is true, the Arena's worth somewhere between $500m and $1 billion dollars and the teams are absolutely incidental. I think this is way high, but I agree Belkin and the others got the deal at a discount. My understanding was that Belkin had a put option built into the original deal (the ability to demand the group buy his stock back) by 2006 at 85% of its purchase price. I'm sure, in light of the circumstances, he was able to negotiate terms more favorable than that, but I don't believe he could have moved his partners to pay 3x market value of 16 months ago. Why would they bother? If he'd held a gun to their head, they'd have simply removed him as Governor and let him stay on as a de-nutted minority owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lascar78 Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 ^^^ Yeah he's making no sense, as is often the case. I don't know what the exact figures are with the Phil but it does make alot of money annually, but it also has alot of debt tied to it ($400 million?) that the owners took on when they bought the place. Either way, its profits and debts were accounted for in the initial valuation, when they bought everything. It will not have changed too much and they are not drastically overpaying him by those ridiculous amounts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted August 20, 2005 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 The debt for the Phil was 140 Million total. The key to being an owner that Sales the team is to make a lot of money on your investment. Basketball team appreciate... Quote: When Mark Cuban bought the Mavs in 2000 for $280 million, McDavid's 12.5 percent stake earned him roughly $35 million for an original investment of $15.6 million. But the sale was more than just a handsome payoffs, it was the first step in McDavid's quest to get back into the owner's box-somewhere, anywhere-and this time feet like he belonged. In three years, McDavid hasn't had much luck. Now...If McDavid could sell his stake in 1 NBA team with no Arena attached and get back more than 2 times the amount he put in, imagine what Belk got for his stake in 2 teams and the arena? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzachary Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Quote: Why would they bother? If he'd held a gun to their head, they'd have simply removed him as Governor and let him stay on as a de-nutted minority owner. "De-nutted?" Can't say I've heard that term before. Is it some obscure legalese? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inside_Man Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Quote: I would guess that Belk made about 210-300 Million out of this deal from his original 75 Million he put in. Diesel, With all due respect - you're absolutely NUTS! First off, the partnership aggreement had contingencies in place if someone had to sell out and it's based on appraised market value. After the NHL strike, the value of the Thrasher's franchise HAS to be less than it was when Belkin bought in. I'd bet there's no way Belkin sold for more than $100 mil, and more likely it's less than $95. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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