TroyMcClure

Peter King is a big, fat, moron who probably never even tried to play football. He is one of the all time idiots in my book. Every year he predicts something like the Falcons going 1-15. He was a little off, don't you think? How does someone continue to be allowed to talk about something they have no clue of? SI is just about the most worthless "sports" magazine that there is. I'm sure Lawyer Milloy being released has a hell of a lot more to do with the fact that he just can't run anymore.

Yeah, that's what I said. Why don't you post a few videos of Joe destroying a double team. There should be plenty of highlights out there, don't you think?

Kind of. Say we somehow got an Amare for Smoove or something. Woody still couldn't take them anywhere. Getting a superstar would only be like slapping paint on rotted wood. The ultimate goal will always be out of reach while he is in charge. I've said for years that this team had talent. I think the 13 win team could have won twice as many if they didn't have Woody.

The problem with that, is that we'd still have the same coach. A star, even a superstar can only drag dead weight so far. Smoove isn't a problem. The dynamic of Smoove and Joe is a problem, though.

I constantly read on this board about all of the double and triple teams that Joe gets. Well, I hardly ever see the man draw even a double team. This is the main justification for all of Joe's faults. I think it is a figment of imagination. I never see teams focused on Joe like that. You don't get to pound for 10 seconds every possession if you are doubled. Everyone gets picked up by two people in certain spots. Especially when you pound for forever and draw the entire collective focus of the defense before you drive for a floater. Joe isn't "double teamed" though. And I've never seen him "triple teamed" as I've read here often. If anyone has video proof, please post it. I don't see it. It's just basketball rhetoric, imo. Tomorrow night is a big test. We have virtually the same records, but Utah is light years ahead of the Hawks as a consistently functioning team unit. They also just lost Larry Miller and I'm sure they will be digging deep emotionally for some time.

Gentlemen call it debate, and treat it as such. I haven't seen anyone arguing.

It's Terence Moore's fault. He has wanted Griffey to come here for 15 years and he just couldn't wait one more day to write about it. Did you see that the AJC headline said GRIFFEY TO BE A BRAVE above the corresponding article? My guess is Griifey saw that and thought maybe there would be a little too much pressure here. He's 39. It's understandable. When the choice was the team he will go into the Hall of Fame with or us, this could well have been the tipping point. Judging by Griff's comments, that appears to be the case. I'm not mad at him. Terence Moore on the other hand...

They had those when I played football, dj. I didn't like them. football talking, or rugby, and basketball are two different things. Actually, I feel communication is vital in basketball. You have to talk about picking people up, telling someone you have their back if they pressure. All kinds of things. It's mainly defensive. You have to be able to talk quickly and audibly on defense. I think it's kind of a big deal on the court. Benhillboy gets to the point of it. Nobody wore mouthpieces until a few years ago. I think it hurts team defense. I just don't see the real need. People can say what they want, but try wearing a mouthpiece at work for a few hours. See if anyone can understand you. At the very least, you can't communicate as easily. Now imagine having thousands of people making noise. At the highest level of anything, every little bit could make the difference between success and failure.

I feel the same way. We're supposed to reward him with a big payday? For old times sake? How exactly does that not make him selfish now? If we overpay for him, we hurt the chances of competing again. What is he thinking? Personally, I think the guy wanted out because his wife divorced him in the middle of last year, I think. He's also got a bit of an ego. He's not coming off like a man you can respect anymore, though. Totally a "say it ain't so, Smoltzie" kind of time right now. The guy has really disappointed me.

I knew about most of these, and they seem to be correct, but this is a little wrong. The Rams played in Cleveland for years before they moved to Los Angeles.

Sorry to hear that. I did see that MLB.com is supposed to have games. Maybe you will be able to catch a few. As for Morton. He was, like, 4-8 or something with an ERA around 7, while Campillo was 8-7, I think, with an ERA under 4. It's a no-brainer. Morton looked good a few times and then it was bp city. Jorge is good. He's got a good change-up.

Very true. But everyone is missing the boat. The most important aspect of talking on the court is talking to your teammates. Most of our guys wear mouthpieces. You can't talk while you wear one. So, I don't know what you guys are seeing, but we don't really jaw as a team. I would like to see millionaires a little more concerned with communicating and winning, than keeping their grill straight.

Isn't that the whole point of a message board? lol!

No, the comment was right. It's Glavine's to lose, though. you must not be a Braves fan, Libid. Morton sucks. There is no way Bobby would start him over Campillo unless there was drastic improvement this spring. I wish we could have dumped him already.

That's because he wears a mouthpiece and can't really communicate verbally on defense. I actually thought the spot was not very good. They were trying to replicate some of the football commercials with the speed and fury thing. Basketball isn't like that, though. This totally missed the mark for me. It is nice to see a Hawk, I must say. OT - Anyone see 'Nique in the Celebrity game? God forgive me, but I think Leiberman-Cline could have taken him. lol! He has like, Sunday paper lift. It was a little sad. Now that I think of it, why was he even there? He really embarrassed himself. Even more than you are suppossed to at that age.

He's not looking for money by doing this. Clearly, he is on lsd or something similar in the Letterman interview. Dave seemed to know as much and let him off rather lightly, while still toying with him a little. Joaquin grew up completely hippie, remember. It's not like he's ever had a full deck. I've never really cared for him much as an actor. Definitely liked his brother a lot more. He was very impressive in the Cash movie, though. He really went there. My guess is he hasn't really let up after doing that movie and he's veering towards insanity.

Dollar for dollar means what it says. Personally, I'd take a Zaza. This isn't a video game. It's real life. Stats aren't everything. Reef was one of the dumbest players I've ever seen. He continually hurt his team. But he got 20 and 10. Who cares if a stupid coach and Gm let a mediocre player take shots he shouldn't be taking and make decisions that he shouldn't be making? Webber hurt his team on the court and against the salary cap. The Kings are talking about moving again, only a few years removed from Webber. Obviously, they made the wrong choice hitching their wagon to him. Employing quality character people like Webber can really help the franchise, you know? Whose talking about imposing? It's my opinion. Which is well formed, I might add. Webber had averaga ability in my mind. He was just tall... and could dribble a little. That was like a new thing then. Remember? By the way, the Warriors dumped him, he went to Washington and complained and sucked. Then he went to the Kings, where... he lost in the FIRST round 4 times! Made it to the CONFERENCE finals once. Lost because he was soft.. and thankfully he's done. Unfortunately, we are forced to hear his opinion nightly now. His record really isn't impressive. The Kings success had a whole lot more to do with Adelman, Turkgolu, Divac and Bibby than it did with Webber. That team could have done some things if Webber played like a man. He didn't. My whole point is guys that think like Webber epitomize what is wrong with the game.

When did Webber get to the Finals? So, no, I can't say that. He could have gotten there if he was half the man Vlade Divac was. Much easier to throw up bricks and try to make pretty back door passes in the princeton offense. The Kings didn't get screwed. They did it to themselves. In large part, due to Webber, imo. You seem to be missing the point. No one needs Webber types. What did he win? Ask his college teammates if they respect him. All of their banners are torn down because of him. He's, as I said, a selfish, very mediocre basketball player. He could never shoot, but did so often. And he never got a rebound that meant anything. You really need to be in the paint for that to happen, though. Webber types are a cancer. Seriously, who wants a slow footed big man with no ability or desire to defend, who can't shoot at all, but does so anyway? He was just a joke of a player. Not the kind of guy I'd go to war with. You can tell guys who are competitors, that would be good no matter their size. Webber was tall. That's it. Take away 4 or 5 inches. Make him 6'8". Dude would not have sniffed an NBA court. No competitive desire (as a team member). It was always all about Webber. I'm sure someone once said "You need a J.R. Rider for Ty Corbin to be anything". See what I mean? Just because you shoot or handle the ball a lot, doesn't mean you should have.

Good stuff, dog! I'm just giving you a hard time. I think we see things in a similar light. As far as the example, I think it is apt. Sloan is remembered as a mean, tough sg-sf, who could defend anyone. He is also one of the greatest coaches in the history of the game. What will Webber be remembered for? That dunk on Sir Charles... maybe his post entry passes?... Lying to a federal grand jury?... Being accused of sexual assault? Dude was as soft as they come. I hear him use that term and type of language often. He got 20 and 10, but never understood the game or had a true desire to win a title. Very selfish, mediocre basketball player. Dollar for dollar, I'll take what a Matt Bonner, as Traceman refered to, gives you, over what a Webber type gives you, any day of the week. Sloan coached his team to back to back finals appearances. If not for the greatest player ever and arguably the greatest coach ever, he would have had 2 titles. Doesn't mean much to me that he didn't win it. Does the example seem a bit more in perspective now? Sloan and Webber are only similar in that they both played in the NBA.

I thought you were better than that, crimedog. It's funny, only in the last 15 years or so has being an intelligent, team oriented professional become equal to being a scrub. My theory is that only guys who don't play throw around those kinds of words. Guys like Chris Webber throw that word around. Interestingly, I thought he was a complete scrub. I guess he thought all of those bricks he threw up from 19 ft instead of posting up or rebounding like any real man were pretty. See, in my world, guys who don't know their limitations and continually hurt the team trying to shine, are the real scrubs. Just my opinion, though. And probably Jerry Sloan's.

You are acting like we have a coach or something.

That's about what we are, anyway. We've been over .500% for half a year now, but the schedule is absolutely brutal after the All-Star break. We'll see. All I know is that we can win without any of these guys. We can't win with Woody, though. We have just as much talent as anyone in the NBA, save a few teams.

What's funny is the joke of a human being Tennessee knee-jerk chose to coach them. That's what they get. They will miss Fulmer in the same way Kentucky misses Tubby. Kiffin is just a total scumbag. He had better reinvent the wheel on offense, because he's a liar, and recruits will find that out. He's the top guy now. The buck stops with him, and he's not a classy guy. He's just miopic and arrogant with seemingly no humility. That will lead to failure. As a Bama fan, I was absolutely thrilled when they took this guy. This thing today, is just another example why.

I can buy into the premise. He is the one who lobbied for Woody and the only one who could have forced a change, even quietly. He chose not to. Joe seems to like Woody's "offense". Also, every time Joe decides to pound it, and I mean every single pound, he is choosing to do so. He could pass and cut quickly once in a blue moon, you know. He dribbles way to much. You can chicken or egg it with Woody's offense and Joe's pounding, but I don't think Woody is holding Joe from doing anything he wants to do. He makes his own role. Seriously, would Woody say "Man, we had too much movement out there, Joe needs to understand that we need him to pound it for us to be successful long term"? Not going to happen. Joe likes the way he plays though, and doesn't seem to inclined to change his game beyond what we see on a nightly basis.

How so? Not even close? Smoove may be more creative at the rim, but Marvin is more consistent in not turning it over and getting to the line. I think I agree with you , but not with the disparity that you see.