EazyRoc

Marvin needs better conditioning and core strength. Overall, he's not weak, it's just he has horrible balance/coordination. If he does some core strengthening, he'll be more coordinated and balanced (no more dribbling off of his foot). In addition to your list, I think Marvin needs to continue developing his post game, since he's got a decent turn around J. Al Horford needs to work on his handles. Once he's able to consistently take his man off the dribble from the high post, he'll be very tough to guard. He also needs a few more goto moves in the post. Josh Smith needs handles most importantly, once he improves that, he won't be an turnover machine like he was. He needs to work on his jumpshot too, almost as much as he needs to work on his handle. He also needs to refine his post moves, and work on some defensive fundamentals (boxing out, etc.) Acie Law needs to work on his shot most importantly. He has great handles, and if he improves his shot, he'll be very good. Chilly needs to shoot 1,000,000 jumpshosts over the summer. ZaZa needs to lose about 10 lbs this summer, and work on his hand-eye coordination. Bibby needs to sit down and get healthy.

Quote: Quote: I have a feeling the people in Houston wouldn't agree. Battier is a legit threat from 3 and is also one of the best defenders in the league. Hell, I don't agree. I'd take Battier in a second over MW. Battier would fit our team perfectly. He's a team player who plays excellent D, can shoot, and most importantly, plays with heart EVERY game. I PRAY Marv can come close to reaching Battiers level. He's on his way but at his pace it will be a decade or so. You are really overrating Battier or underrating Marvin. Marvin is the much better scorer, and he is our best man-on-man perimeter defender, though not nearly as good as Battier in that department. I haven't watched a lot of Battier, but when I saw him I wasn't overly impressed. He's definately a solid, well-rounded player who would work on a team where he's not expected to score at all.

Quote: And trying to say Marvin is better than Jefferson was a joke. I can agree with that.

Quote: Quote: Correction..I never challenged the fact that he was a below average starting SF. You probably need to make that point more clearly next time. When someone says something like: "Marvin isn't an average starting SF." And the reply is along the lines of: "You underrate Marvin, he is average." It looks like you are responding to the original claim rather than starting a new, slightly different tangent. I agree completely. However, I clarified this for him in another post, but unfortunately he either didn't see my clarification or he chose to ignore it.

Quote: Quote: Correction..I never challenged the fact that he was a below average starting SF Looks like you and sturt have something in common. Instead of arguing against the point i was making you decided to argue about something else entirely. Next thing you will be arguing about Speedy's foul shooting. Sturt doesn't even know what point he is trying to make. his argument is all over the place. What you fail to understand is I wasn't arguing against your "point". I was making a statement just like I said in a previous post. EDIT: Irregardless, Marvin is better than Battier. So, that makes your whole point moot.

Quote: I think one of Marvin Williams or Josh Smith as to go (preferrably Marvin obviously). We can't afford Marvin next year so we might as well get something for him. Although, if I had to trade, I would prefer to keep Josh Smith over Marvin, I don't think money will be an issue like you think. Mostly all teams are over the salary cap, and if we are competitive next year, we could afford to keep him. Ever since the playoff series, we have sold many more season tickets. Therefore, I believe we'll have enough to resign players even if it takes us over the cap.

Correction..I never challenged the fact that he was a below average starting SF. I merely said he was not below average. After looking over the list again, maybe he is average. I'd take Marvin over Battier. He's the only one on that list that I believe Marvin is better than.

Who knows ? The point is..he's not a bad GM or else he wouldn't even be considered for lead job right now. Quote: All I kept hearing during the playoffs was that we've got a solid young core and that we're going to be good for years to come. So who's right ? You or them ? I think Mike Fratello was the guy who had a lot of good things to say about our team, which BK built. So is Mike Fratello wrong ? I know you might not like BK, but the point is there are a few professional basketball minds who think BK is GM material or who think his work thus far is solid. If you think otherwise, then so be it. I'm going to stick with my opinion, one which is shared by people who make a living off the NBA.

Ha. Whatever, man. I wasn't responding to you, I made a statement that marvin was not a top 15 SF in the league and he isn't below average. It's pointless to try to compare Marvin to other players especially when everyone on that list is older and has more basketball experience than him. I thought I made that clear, but maybe I didn't. Either way, arguing that is far from the point I'm trying to make. Once again, you dodge my question. If Billy Knight is considered a below average GM by yourself, why does Donnie Walsh think he's a suitable candidate for the GM job in New York ?

Quote: Quote: Everyone on that list is either an allstar, future allstar, borderline allstar, or olympic-quality player. Also, I think everyone on that list is definately older than Marvin and has more experience than Marvin. Not a fair comparison, at all. You disagreed when i said Marvin was a below average starting 3. I listed 15 starting 3s and you didn't name one guy Marvin was better than. That must mean you changed your mind and now agree with me that Marvin is a below average starting 3. Quote: No, I haven't been living in the cave. I just don't remember anybody in national media specifically going after Billy Knight as the laughingstock of the NBA. Then you aren't paying attention. National writers are constantly taking shots at BK over the '05/'06 drafts. Watching League Pass the opposing teams announcers are constantly taking shots at BK over his draft picks. Quote: Again..a GM doesn't coach the team. But they do hire the coach. Quote: Do you really think Donnie Walsh would be going after Billy Knight if he was a below average GM ? They need a demolition expert. BK can certainly do that. But if hired BK will have about as much say on draft picks as you do. No, Marvin Williams is not a top 15 SF in this league, but that does not make him below average. Although you specified starting SF, I didn't. Out of the many SFs in this league, Marvin Williams is definitely not below average. The media also had good things to say about our young core in the playoffs, too. So, although they clown him for 2 bad drafts, what about the other 3 (or 4) ? About the coach issue: See my previous post. And just how do you know what Billy Knight's role in New York will be ? What are you basing your assumption from ? and even then...if they are going to blow the team up..why would they hire Billy Knight as a GM ? Heaven forbid they hired him to rebuild the team ?

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Although his draft history is pretty bad, Sund has made some pretty good trades in Seattle. I believe this is a later move, but then again Billy Knight wasn't all that bad of a GM. We are not a team looking to rebuild, therefore his draft history really isn't as important to me. People were just too enamored with Chris Paul to see Knight's career in Atlanta for what it was...average. When your best year is 37 wins that isnt average, especially considering all the guys he passed on in the draft (Deng, Iggy, Paul, Deron, Roy). Our disappointing win total had much more to do with coaching than our actual players, and I'm sure a lot of 'squawkers would agree with that. It's a shame that people look at who he PASSED on rather than who he actually drafted. If you do assess all the GMs around the league in the same manner, then mostly all of them are below average. Just a brief example, the GM in Detroit drafted Darko, and passed on Carmelo, Bosh, Wade, etc. However, this is the same guy who drafted Prince, Stuckey, and Maxiell. Is he below average, as well ? I could go on and on with examples of GMs who passed on good players, but that's not how you judge a GM. You judge him by the team he's built, and I think the team he built was definately better than 37 wins. Once again, you've got to look at your coach. It is a lot easier to dismiss a GMs draft failures when they win a championship, such as with Dumars. BK, in comparison, has never put a winning team on the floor. Plus, BK hired Woody in the first place so the bad coaching is on him. Because no real coach wanted to commit career suicide by coaching a (at the time) non-existant team ? It's also no secret that he tried to fire Woodson multiple times. and to nbasuperstar..I apologize. Well, Woody was hired by BK prior to the ASG/Belkin implosion, so presumably the dysfunction that now pervades the organization was not a deterrent to coaching candidates when the Woody decision was made. BK also hired a disaster of a coach during his tenure in Memphis, so his ability to identify top coaching talent his highly suspect. I can agree BK made a mistake in Memphis. However, even prior to the whole ownership implosion, our best player was (If I recall correctly) Al Harrington! Back then, Al Harrington was not the player he is in Golden State either. We did not have a team down here then. That is why we traded for Joe, and why the ownership imploded. So, yeah, it was still career suicide to come to Atlanta and coach.

Quote: Quote: National laughingstock..says you ? Uhhh... the national media. Have you been living in a cave the last few years? Quote: Marvin is not below average, my god. Lebron Butler Pierce Turgolu G Wallace Prince Melo Howard Jefferson Artest Deng Granger Battier Gay Peja Please tell me which of these players Marvin is better than. Quote: This team, as it is built, will only get better. It would be hard to get worse than they have been in recent years. Quote: Also, scroll up to my previous post. I edited it after you replied, but I've got a challenge for you in there. Name one GM who has a worse record than BK. No, I haven't been living in the cave. I just don't remember anybody in national media specifically going after Billy Knight as the laughingstock of the NBA. I do know the Hawks have been considered the laughingstock of the NBA, but I believe you're singling out BK in this situation to attempt to prove a point. All the forwards on that list are exceptional players. Everyone on that list is either an allstar, future allstar, borderline allstar, or olympic-quality player. Also, I think everyone on that list is definately older than Marvin and has more experience than Marvin. Not a fair comparison, at all. No, it wouldn't be hard to get worse. It's not easy building a team from scratch. Again..a GM doesn't coach the team. You don't judge GMs by their teams' records as much as you judge them by the talent they have put together. All I kept hearing during the playoffs was that we've got a solid young core and that we're going to be good for years to come. So who's right ? You or them ? Also, Billy Knight is (or was) the frontrunner for the GM job in New York. The Knicks are one of the highest revenue generating teams in the league, and have some solid pieces there. Do you really think Donnie Walsh would be going after Billy Knight if he was a below average GM ?

Quote: Quote: I'm curious. Exactly how is Rick Sund's history enough to make you raise an eyebrow, but Billy King's history somehow shouldn't make you raise an eyebrow if he had been hired? LOL I hear ya. Billy King would have been a reason to cry today. Sund doesnt exactly make me cheer but we will have to wait and see. Billy King put a playoff team together only a few years after trading away his superstar. He catches too much flak just because he's given away a lot of bad contracts. I know if he was he re with the ASG, that wouldn't have happened. Oh well..Rick Sund has made some good trades. He absolutely robbed Milwaukee with the Ray Allen trade. Let's see if he can work some magic here in the A-town.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Although his draft history is pretty bad, Sund has made some pretty good trades in Seattle. I believe this is a later move, but then again Billy Knight wasn't all that bad of a GM. We are not a team looking to rebuild, therefore his draft history really isn't as important to me. People were just too enamored with Chris Paul to see Knight's career in Atlanta for what it was...average. When your best year is 37 wins that isnt average, especially considering all the guys he passed on in the draft (Deng, Iggy, Paul, Deron, Roy). Our disappointing win total had much more to do with coaching than our actual players, and I'm sure a lot of 'squawkers would agree with that. It's a shame that people look at who he PASSED on rather than who he actually drafted. If you do assess all the GMs around the league in the same manner, then mostly all of them are below average. Just a brief example, the GM in Detroit drafted Darko, and passed on Carmelo, Bosh, Wade, etc. However, this is the same guy who drafted Prince, Stuckey, and Maxiell. Is he below average, as well ? I could go on and on with examples of GMs who passed on good players, but that's not how you judge a GM. You judge him by the team he's built, and I think the team he built was definately better than 37 wins. Once again, you've got to look at your coach. It is a lot easier to dismiss a GMs draft failures when they win a championship, such as with Dumars. BK, in comparison, has never put a winning team on the floor. Plus, BK hired Woody in the first place so the bad coaching is on him. Because no real coach wanted to commit career suicide by coaching a (at the time) non-existant team ? It's also no secret that he tried to fire Woodson multiple times. and to nbasuperstar..I apologize.

National laughingstock..says you ? Acie Law is going to be a good PG, too. Marvin is not below average, my god. Marvin was a VERY raw player (almost as raw as Josh Smith) coming into the NBA. He probably scored the most points as a 3rd/4th option out of any player in the league. He pulls down a fairly average amount of rebounds at the SF. I know you want to hate Billy Knight, but you really have to look at things objectively. This team, as it is built, will only get better. We are really a veteran wing, a defensive big, and a better coach away from being a very good team. Also, scroll up to my previous post. I edited it after you replied, but I've got a challenge for you in there.

It would only be worthwhile if we could get a player like Michael Redd to play SG, considering we have plenty of players to play the 3.

It's not too late for Childress and Marvin to have really good careers. Shelden was a god awful pick, but hey...what GM is flawless ? Even though we are undersized, our front line is better than a lot of front lines in the league. Also, there were quite a few teams that finished worse than us in 3pt%. I believe that top 10 protected first rounded was the reason we got Al Horford. Craig could potentially come back next year, and that would give us a pretty solid rotation at PG. Billy Knight has not had enough failures to be considered a below average GM. If he did, he wouldn't have even been considered for the NY job. I'm not saying he is a top GM, but you are delusional if you really think Billy Knight is a flat out BAD GM. As a matter of fact, barring RC Buford, Dumars, and Pritchard, you can name any GM in the league and I can easily point out that he's made mistakes just like BK did. Hindsight is a motherlover man..

Quote: Quote: On NBA radio today, they said he is well respected in this league. Finalist for many jobs over the years. Even though he has signed bad contracts, that he is a very experienced negotiator. Even mentioned him not giving in to Rashard Lewis' max contract demand. Brought up, Quinn Buckner as HC in Dallas, as his worst decision. But pretty much every analyst agreed, that he's a great fit in Atlanta. Mentioned a key point, tho. That you can't have a young team, a young/new coach, new owners and hungry fan base...without someone, who's seen all this before. Whether it was a good or bad experience. I just want him to have the power, to chose the HC. And specifically, not to choose Woody. Agreed, If they get rid of Woody I'll be tickled pink. I'll third that!

I think Childress could play SG on that team only if Durant can play PF. However, I don't see that happening, nor do I see them giving up 2 players for Childress. Who knows, though ? I definately wouldnt be against trading for Wilkins and a back-up big.

Quote: Quote: Although his draft history is pretty bad, Sund has made some pretty good trades in Seattle. I believe this is a later move, but then again Billy Knight wasn't all that bad of a GM. We are not a team looking to rebuild, therefore his draft history really isn't as important to me. People were just too enamored with Chris Paul to see Knight's career in Atlanta for what it was...average. When your best year is 37 wins that isnt average, especially considering all the guys he passed on in the draft (Deng, Iggy, Paul, Deron, Roy). Our disappointing win total had much more to do with coaching than our actual players, and I'm sure a lot of 'squawkers would agree with that. It's a shame that people look at who he PASSED on rather than who he actually drafted. If you do assess all the GMs around the league in the same manner, then mostly all of them are below average. Just a brief example, the GM in Detroit drafted Darko, and passed on Carmelo, Bosh, Wade, etc. However, this is the same guy who drafted Prince, Stuckey, and Maxiell. Is he below average, as well ? I could go on and on with examples of GMs who passed on good players, but that's not how you judge a GM. You judge him by the team he's built, and I think the team he built was definately better than 37 wins. Once again, you've got to look at your coach.

Although his draft history is pretty bad, Sund has made some pretty good trades in Seattle. I believe this is a later move, but then again Billy Knight wasn't all that bad of a GM. We are not a team looking to rebuild, therefore his draft history really isn't as important to me. People were just too enamored with Chris Paul to see Knight's career in Atlanta for what it was...average.

I believe Kirk Hinrich is better than Mike Bibby. He just had a tough season last year playing out of position a lot. He's one of the better perimeters defenders at the PG position, and a solid point guard with good BBIQ. You guys make it seem like he's a scrub or something..

I think it's time to bring in King. I really wouldn't mind Gabriel, either.

Quote: My question would be "what level has Baron Davis brought the Warriors to?" To me they are a bunch of run and gunners in Oakland that would give any player great stats but maybe no substance. Baron Davis has consistently been one of the top PGs in this league. He, like JJ, can score any way he wants too. He is also a great facilitator who just happened to play a lot of SG this year due to the rise of Monta Ellis. He would make our team SO much better, because he's a much better PG than Bibby. It's not even close. I actually think next year, Bibby is going to find a way to get hurt and play like trash for extended periods of time. Why not trade him and Marvin for a star player and veteran leader. (two things that Joe has been asking for since...forever)

I would give up Marvin/Bibby for Redd with no hesitation.