EazyRoc

Quote: Yeah let's fire the coach, but keep the players that don't routinely execute. It's Woody's job to get them to execute.

I think BK was desperately looking for some wholesome, marketable players instead of picking the best player for our team. I mean, when you think about it all the highest selling jerseys are probably the jerseys of all the star wingmen (Kobe, Lebron, Carmelo, etc.). It's just..he sucked at that too, except for Josh Smith.

Quote: So, that makes Avery and now Saunders. Hmm...I'm sure even the most tenacious of Woody nut-huggers can't deny now that there are better coaches than him available... They'll make some kind of excuse like.."They couldn't win with their roster. No Flip/Avery." We've got to chance to bring in a coach that can make us a very good team, but will we do it ?

Quote: link The Detroit Pistons just pink-slipped a coach who, in the last three years, was just one win shy of Gregg Popovich (177-59, with San Antonio) for having the best regular-season record in the NBA. General manager Joe Dumars just cut loose the only coach in the past five years to have coached in both the Western Conference finals (Minnesota, 2004) and the Eastern Conference finals (Detroit, 2007 and '08). And yet you are not surprised. Saunders, 53, has been fired twice in the past half-decade. Watching Saunders coach a game from the comfort of your den, you are likely left uninspired by his in-game comportment. Scrutinizing Saunders, a former college star at the University of Minnesota, you are reminded of that constantly overmatched Twin Cities used-car salesman from Fargo, Jerry Lundegaard. Dumars: "We're going to have to let you go, Flip." Saunders: "The heck ya' mean!?" It isn't fair, of course. Saunders has taken three of his last five teams to the conference finals. He set franchise single-season victory total records with both the Timberwolves (58-24 in '04) and the Pistons (64-18 in '06). He must have done something right. Right? "Flip is a rock-solid coach," says Fox Sports North NBA analyst Mike McCollow, who was a Saunders assistant when he led the La Crosse (Wis.) Catbirds to a pair of CBA championships in the early Nineties. You know who also won a CBA championship before landing an NBA job? Phil Jackson. Why did Detroit flip on Saunders, then? He likely fell victim to the most prevalent occupational hazard facing NBA coaches not named Jerry Sloan: being tuned out by veterans. Saunders, a brilliant offensive mind, is slow to reprimand recalcitrant players, particularly those whose jerseys are top-sellers. In Minnesota he was viewed as being too soft on Stephon Marbury, and in Michigan it was an open secret that Rasheed Wallace barked back at him more than once. In a veteran-heavy locker room such as Detroit's, the battle for respect is a long and arduous road. Ask Larry Brown. Or George Karl, currently dealing with two of the league's top scorers but inconsistent personalities in Carmelo Anthony and Allen Iverson. Even Jackson, who is on the cusp of becoming the league's all-time leader in championships won as a coach, was engaged a year ago at this time in a struggle for the soul of his team with Kobe Bryant. It's all about respect, and too few NBA superstars see the purpose in paying it to the guy in the tie at the end of the bench. Saunders, who along with Kevin McHale helped lead the Golden Gophers to a 24-3 record as a senior point guard at Minnesota, never played in the NBA. He, like Lawrence Frank or Jeff Van Gundy, had to travel further to initially earn his superstars' respect. Unlike Van Gundy, though, Saunders' demeanor wants for intensity. While he has a keen understanding of the game, especially from a half-court offensive perspective, he seemed almost too placid on the bench. Only players such as Chauncey Billups, Antonio McDyess and Rasheed Wallace truly know who was running the show once they started keeping score at the Palace. Saunders, whose wife and four children remained back in the Twin Cities area while he coached the Pistons, had a year remaining on his contract. Whether or not he coaches next season is anyone's guess. Suddenly, though, the Chicago Bulls vacancy becomes more intriguing — don't be surprised if Doug Collins stops shuffling his feet and pronto. Saunders excels with point guards (those who listen, that is) and would probably relish the opportunity to help mold a teenage Derrick Rose. It was Bobby Knight, the in-game antithesis of Saunders, who once mocked a reporter who inquired about his team's "game face". One thing is for certain, though. Saunders might want to work on his before his next job. Outside of taking a team to the NBA Finals, he has accomplished as much as any coach in the league the past half-decade. It would not hurt him to start carrying himself that way. The only thing is that "Smoove" is not a veteran with a championship ring.

Chris Paul would have been good here. However, Byron Scott is a great coach so I don't think he would have been at MVP status just yet if he was here. Not because Woody is a bad coach, but because Byron Scott is a former PG and a good coach.

Quote: Quote: Quote: For the Hawks. Who do you want more? David Lee or Andersen and Solo? David Lee, of course. That's my point-the trade is ONE-SIDED. I just can't see anyone trading a David Lee for Andersen and Soloman Jones. But, all right, I'll let you have your fun with this thread. I don't think so. I like Lee, but for the Hawks... we need a Center. You quoted off Andersen's 14/6 like it was nothing. The fact of the matter is that Lee excels because he's on a very sorry team. When he comes in he spells Randolph. Curry cannot rebound. His team plays no defense and offensively, how hard is it to get putbacks? Andersen can play C and can score from range. And Solo has great potential. The point is David Andersen and Solomon Jones have yet to prove anything in the NBA. Sure he's getting 14/6 in some Euro league; However, everybody knows the bigs over there are soft as wet tissue paper. He's not facing the strong, physical players over here over in Russia. Solomon Jones does have great potential, but hasn't shown anything in the 3(?) years that he's been here. Maybe he'll emerge as a good backup C, but David Lee has produced in the past few years. Although it wasn't his rookie year, he put up 10.8/8.9 in about the same minutes Horford was getting. What makes that so significant is the fact that he's coming off the bench. David Andersen may come here and never put up numbers like that, but I do know since Solomon Jones has been here, he hasn't either.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: The people giving Woody an F are just haters. Please define "hater". I don't hate the man. I don't even know him. I do hate the fact that he's our coach. I hate the fact that he can only muster 37 wins. I hate the fact that he has no "B" game plane. I hate the fact that his "A" game plan rarely works. I hate the fact that we are a young team who still manages to get very little "experience". I hate the fact that he thinks he is above working on anything himself. How can he expect his players to improve and work on things when he isn't even able to acknowledge some of his own flaws? I didn't GIVE him an F because I'm a hater, he EARNED the F because he is the worst coach in the NBA as of this post. So how many games should we have won this year? I don't think 47 was an unreachable number. The way the East panned out and the fact that our injury bug moved on AND taking the Eastern Champs to 7 games I think 45+ was reachable. Please don't ask if that's the number I thought of at the beggining of the year because that has absolutly nothing to do with me grading Woody based on this year and what I saw. Plus I don't really remember what I might of guessed. Why don't you tell me why we will win more than 37 next year with the same squad and same coaches? I know going by BK's "plan" that should put us around 42 wins. So, I'll buy that. Should be a fine year. Wow. Just wow. We're now a team that were supposed to win 45+ games? That's living in fantasy land my friend. To do that, we'd either have to have been one of the best home teams in the league by winning 32+ home games ( with one of the weakest crowds in the league, until the playoffs started ) . . or . . we'd have to become a .500 team on the road. We weren't equipped to do neither of those things this year. I started a thread at the beginning of the season entitled, "Can the Hawks win 25 home games". The 25 home win mark is usually the magic number for reaching the playoffs. I looked back over about an 8 - 10 year period. And around 80% - 85% of the teams that won 25 home games, got into the playoffs. So my theory was if we could win 25 home games, and 16 road games, that those 41 wins should get us in the playoffs. This year, we got those 25 home wins, but only 12 on the road. And how convienent that NOW the 3 home wins vs the Celtics matter, when most discount them as just the Hawks playing way over their heads because of the crowd. Forget that boston was the best road team in the league up until that series with us. Those wins matter, unless you're trying to make a case for Woody, then they don't matter. The difference next year, if we keep this team intact, should be the matuation of our young players and at least a little stability AND TALENT at the point and center spot for the first time since we had Mookie and Deke. The wild card for us may be Andersen, and how Woody integrates him into the rotation IF Andersen's game can make the transition to NBA level. As for Woody and his coaching, he'll continue to do the things that he needs to do in order for us to win games: - emphasizng defense and especially rebounding - properly defining roles for our main rotation guys - motivating the team at all times, even when things go bad - continuing the offensive development of Josh Smith, something he gets absolutely no credit for, but should, because it was his idea to establish him as the 2nd offensive option and play him at the 4. - hopefully becoming better with in-game adjustments, especially on offense. That has already become a little better with bibby at the helm ( minus his performance in the playoffs ) How many games did Portland win? They have a younger team then the Hawks. More than we did, in a tougher conference. I believe they were right at .500.

Quote: at some point, a player's ability to lead their team to wins has to matter more than individual stats. i agree with you 100% on Wade. my other four from the list are: LeBron, Paul, Howard, and D Williams. i struggled with Anthony and Bosh, but ultimately believe that Howard is more dominant than either and Deron led his team to a conference finals. Deron has help, a lot more than Chris Bosh. Boozer, AK-47, and Okur make Deron's job a whole lot easier. Chris Bosh basically carries his team that doesn't have a legitimate scoring option outside of him. He makes everyone around him much better, and that's saying a lot considering he doesn't have much around him.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Third, I can't at all see the Knicks doing that deal. I doubt anyone outside Atlanta really knows anything about Soloman Jones, much less puts any value on him. David Lee is one of their best reserves and really, he's among the better 6th men in the league. Plus, he's young, and the Knicks are really trying to get into rebuilding mode right now. He's making much less money than Randolph and Curry, one of whom I think Donnie Walsh is going to try to deal away for an expiring contract. This is the most unlikely trade-a highly valuable NBA sub, sent out for one guy who plays 2 minutes every other game, and a 28 year old rookie. Lee is good. However, Knicks have a new President and BK will be GM. Do you really think BK won't go after two guys he drafted? Moreover, Andersen might be a better match for their lineup than Lee. 1) BK didn't draft Andersen 2) BK isn't their GM (and may never be, despite your assumption) 3) What exactly has Soloman Jones done? 4) Last year in Euro, Andersen averaged 14.4/6.3. In the NBA, Lee averaged 10.8/8.9. In 06-07, Lee averaged in a double-double in just under 30 minutes playing time. I just can't see even BK, much less Donnie Walsh, seeing that as less valuable than what they'd be getting. For the Hawks. Who do you want more? David Lee or Andersen and Solo? David Lee, definately.

Quote: Who are the five best players to enter the NBA in the past 5 years (so 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007 drafts): Pretty easy for me. I've got to pick Lebron, Dwight, CP3, Wade, and Bosh.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: The people giving Woody an F are just haters. Please define "hater". I don't hate the man. I don't even know him. I do hate the fact that he's our coach. I hate the fact that he can only muster 37 wins. I hate the fact that he has no "B" game plane. I hate the fact that his "A" game plan rarely works. I hate the fact that we are a young team who still manages to get very little "experience". I hate the fact that he thinks he is above working on anything himself. How can he expect his players to improve and work on things when he isn't even able to acknowledge some of his own flaws? I didn't GIVE him an F because I'm a hater, he EARNED the F because he is the worst coach in the NBA as of this post. So how many games should we have won this year? I don't think 47 was an unreachable number. The way the East panned out and the fact that our injury bug moved on AND taking the Eastern Champs to 7 games I think 45+ was reachable. Please don't ask if that's the number I thought of at the beggining of the year because that has absolutly nothing to do with me grading Woody based on this year and what I saw. Plus I don't really remember what I might of guessed. Why don't you tell me why we will win more than 37 next year with the same squad and same coaches? I know going by BK's "plan" that should put us around 42 wins. So, I'll buy that. Should be a fine year. I actually thought they'd win 42 games this year. If the coach could have gotten these guys to overachieve like the Sixers, we could have been around 45 this year. Who knows ?

When you have a veteran roster than already has a championship, you can't blame the coach for lack of motivation. Almost everyone on that team knew what it takes to win big, but they just didn't do what needed to be done. It's hard to motivate people who have already got the hardware to win more.

Quote: Rasheed is just too crazy for us to get and there is no way Detriot would trade him for Chillz, Speedy and Zaza. That's just our perception as outsiders looking in. Every time I hear announcers comment about his "craziness" they always mention that his teammates consider him to be a great teammate. What you see on the court might be significantly different from the locker room/practice court 'Sheed. Now, whether or not Detroit will take Chilly, Speedy, and Zaza who knows. Childress could be their future SG, Speedy could be their 3rd string PG, and ZaZa gives them size. It seems good from my point of view, but who knows how Detroit feels abot those 3 ?

Quote: Quote: You think Chicago would really do that trade? I think that there's displeasure with Noah. I believe that Smoove is worth far more than this years #1 pick to them. Word is that they're going after Beasley. Smoove is far better than Beasley and less of an attitude problem. I just don't know if it's possible to trade Smoove without a SNT. If I'm Chicago, I want him signed for more than just a few months. Also, I know that they would do a Hinrich/Noah for Smoove SNT.. but I wouldn't propose that. I'd like to get a future star like Rose. I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one man. Smoove is not worth Noah and the #1 overall. They already have a raw super athlete in Tyrus Thomas, and a good SF with Luol Deng. Also, the word I've been hearing is different from what you've been hearing. I've been hearing they are trying to move Hinrich to make room for Derrick Rose.

Quote: Quote: Quote: no to Gilbert and hell no to Rasheed.I blame that finals loss against the spurs all on his dumazz. I didn't see the game. Care to explain ? Why not Sheed ? As it stands we may not be able to resign Chilly. Sheed overall is always getting technicals and jacking up 3's.In the finals a few years ago against the Spurs when the format was 2-3-2.The Spurs won the first 2 at home.Then they went to Detroit for games 3-5.They won 3 and 4.Game 5 they had it won but Robert Horry had been hitting 3's all game.At the end of the game on a crucial possession in the last seconds Horry was inbounding.He passed to Manu in the corner and Rip(I think either him or prince) closed on him.Rasheed's dumb azz leaves Horry and tries to trap Manu in the corner,half azzes it and Manu easily threw the pass around him to Horry and he drains the 3.Spurs take the lead and win.They thought Detroit couldn't win in San Antonio but Detroit ended up winning game 6.They lost game 7.They had the series if it wasn't for his brain fart.and he was barely doing anything against Boston.It would be stupid for getting a guy that we had before but traded after one game GIVING Detroit a championship that year.especially when he's not as good as he used to be. I can understand how you feel, but having Sheed on this team would be far from stupid. I also think it's silly to knock him for one bad play a few years ago. Also, from the game I saw, Sheed was playing pretty good defense when he was matched up on KG. Although he is fairly old, he's not a player that ever relied on athleticism and hasn't lost much from when the Pistons were a championship team. His BBIQ is underrated, just like he is. He can score in the post with that turnaround jumpshot, and he can also stretch the floor with his 3 point range. Sheed does not get technicals like he used to, which actually shocked me. He doesn't jack up threes either, and I saw him shoot exponentially more post shots than 3 pointers. Anderson is a shooter, but he might not work out in the NBA. Why not atleast get a proven vet who could help players like Horford, Smith, and even DA (if he ever comes) with their development.

Quote: Johan Petro? I don't think he's American.

Quote: no to Gilbert and hell no to Rasheed.I blame that finals loss against the spurs all on his dumazz. I didn't see the game. Care to explain ? Why not Sheed ? As it stands we may not be able to resign Chilly.

HoopsHype Quote: Gilbert Arenas, who was cleared to begin rehabilitating his surgically repaired left knee over the weekend, still plans to opt out of the final year of his contract with the Washington Wizards to become an unrestricted free agent. But he doesn't plan to file the necessary paperwork with the league any sooner than the June 30 deadline. The free agency period opens July 1, and Arenas has until June 30 to opt out of a deal that would pay him $12.8 million with the Wizards next season. Yesterday, via a text message, he revealed his plan to wait until the final day. Washington Post When asked why he planned on waiting until June 30 to opt out, Arenas wrote, "I just want to wait." Arenas expects to make a full recovery by the time training camp opens in October. Yesterday, he wrote that he has followed his plan so far: traveling and spending time with his family when he might otherwise be in the gym working on his game. "Everything feels good now," he wrote. "I have to get it strong this month." Washington Post I changed the subject -- although it was fun to think about playing cards with those guys, the lapping Pacific in the background. I asked if Baron Davis will return next season. I expected Nelson to stonewall. "Of course, he's coming back," Nelson said. "Why?" "He has one year left at $17 million. That'll do it. Press Democrat You get the feeling that Dumars will, indeed, break up the core group this time around. There's a chance that one, maybe two pieces, will be different in the starting lineup. Many expect one of those players not back next season is forward Rasheed Wallace. What a difference a year makes. After Wallace blew up in the fourth quarter of Game 6 in the conference finals against Cleveland last season -- he was ejected -- many fans cried for the Pistons to get rid of him because of his antics. Detroit News Wallace will be 34 in September. He has one year left on his contract ($13.7 million). Because of that, and because he still can be a force especially in a contract year, Wallace has trade value. Certainly Dumars will at least test the waters to see what return he might be able to get on Wallace. He might even look to package him with another starter. Detroit News Those are two players we could really use on this team. Rasheed gives us everything David Anderson would, but he's (probably, since I haven't seen DA play) a better defender and better rebounder. He would be great with Horford and Josh Smith in the front court with him, because he is a respected shooter. We could probably get him for Josh Childress, ZaZa, and Speedy (because Speedy claims he's coming back next year). We need Gilbert Arenas' ability to create for himself. I don't think he's as good a fit for this team as Sheed, but he's a much better player than Mike Bibby. I'm somewhat iffy about him, because he might try to really dominate the ball, instead of playing the scoring PG role. H owever, if he's available, I want him on this team.

Quote: Quote: When the cornerstones of your franchise are 22, loaded with potential, and play inside - you are well ahead of the rest of leauge. Name another team that can state the same???? Its like having Brand and Morning right before the erupt - except on the same team boys! Well, Portland has Aldridge and Oden. Man, if Oden plays up to his hype, Portland will be a scary team for many many years.

Quote: I got DTV a few years ago. It blows away cable in my opinion. There's not even a comparison. I get the same hawks games that I got before, but there are times you can also listen to the other teams announcers to get a feel for how they feel about your team. Doesn't satellite TV go out when it rains ?

Quote: I really wish that to prove you point you wouldn't try to put words in my mouth. I have have not said that Woody is a superior coach or an up and coming coach. I have simply said that he isn't nearly as bad as the Woody bashers have tried to make him out to be. I have even said many times that I would gladly replace him if there were a "good" coach available. As "bad" as you all claim Woody is he still got the Hawks to win 3 games against the Celtics when the great Flip Saunders could only get 2 and lost 2 games on their home court. You guys would just love to hire another coach that couldn't get his team to advance even with more talent than the Hawks, like Flip Saunders or Avery Johnson, etc. but you know what? They couldn't win the title with more talent than the Hawks so why would they do any better here? When the time comes when JJ stops openly requesting that Woody is brought back I will stop wanting him back as well. Until that time, you all might as well get used to Woody being the coach and quit crying about it. Could you honestly say you'll take Mike Woodson over Flip Saunders or Avery Johnson ?

Didn't really want to create another topic for this, but if you guys want to check out the Hawks great game 4 vs. Boston check out this link. Hulu NBA games

Quote: Here is the question though, why couldn't the Hawks and Grant agree to a contract? This article suggests he was the first choice (scary as that may be). Was the inability to get a contract due to financial/economic considerations (salry/number of years) or other issues (authority, etc.)? I don't think they wanted to pay Grant what a normal GM would make. Which isn't too bad, considering he doesn't have experience as the GM. I'm actually glad we didn't hire another assistant GM. It's obvious by hiring a 34 year vet that we're taking our front office in another direction.

Quote: I don't think they would pay what it would take to get him . . . . or maybe any of the top candidates. If he is released from Detroit, there's no doubt in my mind that ASG will pursue him. The Hawks are at an important crossroad, competitively and financially. We make the right moves, and our team will be good and financially stable for a very long time. After being put on blast by the media for going after Grant, I think ASG has decided to do the right things and make the right moves. We'll see...

Eh ? It's obvious that the Pistons are past their prime. Sometimes, as fans, we expect the best of the best. However, the reality is Flip Saunders is a good coach who developed his young players well. The Pistons just weren't championship material this year, like they were 3 years ago. You've got to realize that Chauncey, Sheed, and Rip are not in their primes like they were 3 years ago. You've also got to take into account that Ben Wallace was the final piece to make their defense what it was years ago. If that's not enough to convice you, just think of who they lost to! On top of that, they managed to win games in Boston. If you guys don't want Flip Saunders, who could you possibly want ?