EazyRoc

We're definitely giving up too much in this trade.

Patrick O'Bryant

Quote: The turnovers seemed to go down a little once Bibby got integrated, over the last two months of the season his TOs dropped down to a little over 2 a game. I'm not sure if that is a statistical anomoly but I think the Bibby theory makes sense (just as Bibby's garbage-ness in the playoffs was reflected in an increase in TOs as other guys tried to make up for him as a playmaker). Bibby handled the ball more than AJ and Lue. He cut back on his full court sprints, and gave the ball up more.

Quote: Welcome aboard! I think that when Woody mentions the Pistons (and Celtics) he wants us to rebound and defend like them and if we do that then that's when our differences will come out as we are much more athletic and able to run the floor and we could be very exciting .... BUT it all comes down to us defending, rebounding, and protecting the ball first. He could also mean the way their offense had many different options that could come out and score 20 points on any given night.

Quote: Quote: I think he could play center if he put on about 10 or 15 pounds. Maybe, but he would also have to get a lot stronger too. A lot of people throw around "putting on 10 or 15 pounds" like you just eat some hamburgers and lift some weights and bang, 15 pounds of rock-hard muscle. I'm not saying it can't be done, but for some guys (Childress and Solo) their frames just dont take on weight like that. I'm sure the first thing the Hawks staff said when they saw those 2 was that they need to put on some weight. They have both had a few years to do so, and while there have been some gains, I think it is a lot to ask to put on 15 pounds in one offseason, considering body type. Maybe we should enlist Jose Canseco as "Team Chemist" You're right. Some players can't put on weight like that. As he gets older, though, he'll get bigger anyways. I'm still going to hope he can eat some cheeseburgers, lift some eights, and get 15 pounds muscle. We need him to.

I think Josh Smith needs to progress his game to the point where he can fully take advantage of his physical gifts. He needs to improve his shot, but it is more important for him to improve his handles. If he improves his handles, his playmaking ability will get better. His turnovers will also go down. He's going to have to be aggressive whenever he's in the post, and offensively he's got to handle contact better. He's doesn't have a bad free throw %, but he needs to improve it next year. Josh Smith will be getting much more attention next year, and if he makes a big leap from last year, he'll make an All-Star game. Projected Stats: 20 points (48% FG), 9 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 blocks, 2 steals, 2 TO.

I think he could play center if he put on about 10 or 15 pounds. He has very long arms, I believe he's got like a 7'2" wingspan. He's just got to put in th work to become much better than what he is now. His focus should be becoming a consistent post defender and solid rebounder. I think he could contribute if he has a big off-season.

Quote: Quote: You're right. Reading is fundamental. Perhaps you need to go back and read my last post over again. You never said everyone else was average, either. Did you read my post from 11:54 AM today where I said "Minny got nothing of value besides Al Jefferson"? Quote: Just because I don't agree with you, you imply I'm a Celtics fan and that I'm defending the Celtics ? Could you be any more unreasonable ? How does it feel when someone else plays your own game? Once again, re-read my post. You still implied, on the post that I responded to, that Al Jefferson was merely average. In your earlier posts, you didn't acknowledge the other players as average, but instead treated them as if they were "nothing". The thing is..I'm not playing a "game" with you, bro. You were hating on Danny Ainge, and the Celtics, so you really can't flip that around on me. It'd be different if I actually was a Celtics fan and actually was defending them. When I accused you of being a hater, I backed my allegations up with reasons. You were really hating on Danny Ainge and the Celtics, and instead of arguing the point, you try to flip it and make me out as a fan/defender. It seems like to me that you are just desperate to change the subject, because you really couldn't discredit anything that I've brought up. When all else fails, start calling people names..Haha.

Quote: Quote: I'd much rather get Ron Artest for less. don't you see what artest can potentially do to a fanchise, he's got the background. he was the ring leader of one of the most infamous moments in live television history. Ring leader ? C'mon man. He wasn't the only one in the stands, so I think everyone involved should be seen in a similar light. Also, I haven't heard anything negative from Artest since. He's not a "franchise destroyer" like everyone wants him to be, but he's far from an angel.

Quote: Quote: You really think Al Jefferson is average ? Reading is like the pick-n-roll--it's fundamental. I said in an earlier post everyone in that trade other than Jefferson. I can't believe this thread is still in homecourt and squawkers are defending the Celtics. You're right. Reading is fundamental. Perhaps you need to go back and read my last post over again. You never said everyone else was average, either. I'm not defending the Celtics, what am I saying to defend the Celtics ? I am merely acknowledging that Danny Ainge made the right call, and it was a gutsy one at that. You made it seem like the Celtics bamboozled the league with a range of "fantasy" trades. You also said a number of other things that made you sound like a hater. Just because I don't agree with you, you imply I'm a Celtics fan and that I'm defending the Celtics ? Could you be any more unreasonable ?

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Who cares how many minutes he's playing. I guess Joe isn't as impressive being he plays 42 minutes and only scores 22??? Well, mainly we care because what I didn't mention He played 52 games over 34 mpg... That means that he had 37 games playing over 34 minutes where he didn't score at least 20 points. JJ scores over 20 points most of the time he plays over 34 minutes. Marvin scores over 20, 29% of the time he plays over 34 minutes. We can do better Chris. Marvin is a dime a dozen player who really doesn't give an impact on the floor. Yeah, but so is raja bell, and he's old Raja is old but he's definitely not dime a dozen. You can't find a great defensive player who shoots 40% on his career playing. Marvin for Raja and #15... All day every day! Raja Bell is a role player and is old. Marvin is a roleplayer, but he knows how to get to the foul line. I don't think you're being fair to Marvin, either. Josh Smith has been in the league longer and doesn't have solid handles, or a solid jumpshot. He's still got a lot to learn. Marvin Williams has the jumpshot, but his handles are just as bad as Smith's. I think he's the better man defender, he just loses focus and gets lazy every now and then. That's when he reaches in or gets caught up in a pick. I don't know what kind of player that #15 pick will get you, because there is a big demand on centers in the league. There might be a few available, but we don't need to add another project to this team.

Quote: Quote: smooth's attitude isn't so hot all the time either. he's just one incident away from becoming an "i told u this guy was trouble and we should have traded him" Yea but Smoove is a knuclehead on the court, you dont see him in the newspaper for anything negative off the court like Melo. Melo is a knucklehead on the court, too.

I'd much rather get Ron Artest for less.

Quote: Quote: Minnesota got a young big man, who put up like 21/13 last year. Not only do they get an All-Star quality big to replace KG, they get 3 players (Telfair, Gomes, and Ratliff) just to add depth to their team. Even if those players don't work out, they still were able to draft in the Top 10, and get Corey Brewer. Good one. Those players are average at best including Brewer who makes Chillz look fat. Quote: I also think adding Gasol to the Lakers is the reason that they went to the finals. You take Gasol and Bynum away from the Lakers, and they would not have made it as far as they have. He may not have had the impact KG had for the Celtics, but he definately had more impact than Ray had for the Celtics. Not to mention he was much cheaper. Hilarious. Ray Allen is among the top 3pt shooters of all time. Jeff Green will never even be able to pick up Ray Ray's jock. After the top 3 picks in the draft the talent declined heavily. Delonte had been terribly inconsistent and unproductive Wally had a bloated contract through the '09 season. Quote: I also think it's quite clear that you, my friend, are a Celtics hater. You knock Paul Pierce by not jumping for joy on a 25 loss team, and knock him when he becomes more of a team player and even deals with the fact that the Celtics have a new "franchise player" in KG. I personally do not like Paul Pierce, but he's a player that gave up a lot in order to win a championship. If I'm a hater then you must be Ainge's nephew from Tenn. You had me ROFL when I read Pierce "gave up alot". Like what? KG himself said it was still Paula's team. I didn't realize we had so many closet Celtics fans on the 'squawk. DJ you are not alone! You really think Al Jefferson is average ? There's nothing I can do to convince you otherwise. There's not a lot of players averaging 20 points and 11 rebounds a game. Corey Brewer may just be average, or he may become a good wing player. It was just his rookie season, so there's really no telling what he could become. The point is KG wanted out of Minnesota, and Boston wanted KG. They traded about 4 players, including a future All-Star Al Jefferson. Gave them a lottery draft pick, and some cash. That is a fair trade by today's standards. Ray Allen is a good player, and one of the best shooters of all time. He was a big reason his team just won a champion ship ring. However, if the Lakers did not have Pau Gasol, I do not think they would have made it to the NBA Finals. The Lakers' success hinged on the whether Pau Gasol could score and get other players involved too. The Celtics could still win easily even when Ray Allen had his bad games. I could care less about Danny Ainge or the Celtics. I'm not happy the Celtics won the championship and I wouldn't have been happy if the Lakers won it either. KG might have said that, but just how many non-NBA commercials did you see Paul Pierce in ? The point I'm trying to make is Paul Pierce isn't crying about all the attention KG has got all season/post-season. Why wouldn't the consummate team player say it's his team after only getting there this season ?

Quote: I'm not bitter or a hater. I'm just calling it like I see it. McHale is still a Celtic and will be for life. Minny got nothing of value besides Al Jefferson; Celts even got rid of some "headaches" in Gerald Green and Telfair. The thing that bothers me most is Pierce. I followed the Celtics all last season and he didn't even earn a paycheck. Sulking and sitting out games for no reason. Total lack of heart, leadership and effort. Throw in 2 all-stars, get rid of some young guns taking away his shot attempts, and he's ready to play defense every night and run "his team". This board has always over-valued Gasol. He is a regualr season stat sheet stuffer and that's where it ends. He's weak on both ends. The Lakers DID actually make out on that deal, but Gasoft is nowhere near the impact player of KG or even Ray Ray. Yet they made the Finals without Bynum! That's more impressive to me than what the Celtics did (and I'm not even close to being a Lakers fan). Minnesota got a young big man, who put up like 21/13 last year. Not only do they get an All-Star quality big to replace KG, they get 3 players (Telfair, Gomes, and Ratliff) just to add depth to their team. Even if those players don't work out, they still were able to draft in the Top 10, and get Corey Brewer. If that isn't enough for you..the Celtics even gave them CASH. The trade was a win-win situation for both sides, and I think this is a great example of when a trade works out for both teams. I also think adding Gasol to the Lakers is the reason that they went to the finals. You take Gasol and Bynum away from the Lakers, and they would not have made it as far as they have. He may not have had the impact KG had for the Celtics, but he definately had more impact than Ray had for the Celtics. Not to mention he was much cheaper. I also think it's quite clear that you, my friend, are a Celtics hater. You knock Paul Pierce by not jumping for joy on a 25 loss team, and knock him when he becomes more of a team player and even deals with the fact that the Celtics have a new "franchise player" in KG. I personally do not like Paul Pierce, but he's a player that gave up a lot in order to win a championship. He's been in the backseat to KG all season long, after being the only thing worth talking about in Boston for years. How can honestly put more weight on a team with the best player in the league, a skilled 7 footer, and a bevy of shooters losing and then turn around and refuse to give the C's their credit from mortgaging their future (Most teams are too afraid to gamble like Ainge did) and trade away all their young depth to bring in 2 players that made their team a championship-winning team ? I don't know if you are or not, but you sound like a hater me..

Quote: Smith and Horford both frustrated me at times, for different reasons. With Smith when i would see him getting ready to launch a long jumper or do his pg imitation i am like nonononono. When Horford got the ball in the 15-18 foot range i would keep saying "shoot it" or "take his ass to the basket" instead of just standing there holding the ball waiting for someone to pass to. Watching Horford on offense you can see the wheels turning in his head when he gets the ball. He doesn't really react instinctively very often. It seems like he is most comfortable trying to back guys down but that is exactly the wrong thing for him to be doing. He is quick and he can handle the ball so he should be beating guys off the dribble. he has had some success with this, especially on the baseline. When he gets the ball on the baseline and drives baseline he knows that any help will be late coming so he is more aggressive. Even if he doesn't beat his man cleanly he is forcing the guy to move laterally, allowing Horford to use his momentum and muscle to create space for his shot. It will probably take at least 2 or 3 more years to see what kind of scorer Horford will be because he doesn't really seem to have a scorers mentality. The good side of that is that he won't be forcing up bad shots. But we need him to be more aggressive. He used to abuse people like that in NCAA. He's really going to have a "re-train" himself, before he becomes a truly effective scoring option. So, like you said, it'll take him a few years before he really has a polished game like Boozer or any other big who consistently puts the ball on the floor.

Although people have a distorted view that Ron Artest is still crazy and is a "teamkiller", I would trade for Ron Artest in a heartbeat. He gives us a second scoring option, a great defender, and a solid shooter. He's a player than can guard some of the stronger PFs and in addition to having J. Smith, we'd have one of the best defensive front courts in the nation.

I know Shaun Livingston is a player with a lot of potential, so on and so forth. However, I can't see why anyone would want to take a risk on him. If it was just the fact that he was injury prone, I would take the chance. It's just that he isn't a good (or even solid) shooter, which would take one more shooter off the floor for us. Can you imagine how packed the lane will be with only one long-range shooter (JJ) on the court ?

I think the west is the better conference, however I think the difference between the two conferences aren't as great as the media made it seem. The West was a more competitive conference, which made the W/L look so close. The East is top heavy, which made our W/L look so bad. Next year, though, the bottom feeders of the East are going to make big strides, so I think the conferences will be close to equal next year.

Quote: first of all 04 was McKay's first draft. Stop blaiming him for stuff he didn't do,like Bryan Scott,Will Overstreet etc. McKay had nothing to do with the Peerless Price's and Duckett's of the world D.Hall was a great pick,he shouldn't have moved up for Jenkins because he wasn't even legit 1st round talent and in that move we gave the Colts our pick that they used on Bob Sanders. Matt Schaub was a great pick and we got alot out of him.DeMorrio Williams was a great pick also.He wasn't great but he wasn't that bad compared to other GM's. Our team is just that bad. We always run our good players out and keep garbage by signing them to 5 year extensions,Yet they couldn't get Boley or Hall signed. They should have never hired Petrino or negelected the whole team when we had Vick,they wanted him to win by himself. If I was Hall I would have wanted out too. I look at all these teams resigning their young stars while our are ALWAYS going somewhere else to be great. U see the Saints giving Will Smith his money. Dallas paid Marion Barber and Terrence Newman.But the damn falcons wait till the last minute and the team isn't put together well and they want to be stingy and the guy leaves. There's a reason why we don't have back to back winning seasons,we're obviously not doing things that all other teams besides Carolina are doing. That's why I have no faith in them resigning Boley or Roddy when it's time to. fans can't complain either because they want the good players gone anyway. They want to act like Hall is the worst CB in the league and Vick didn't hit WR's in the hands a million times only for them to drop it. I think Arthur Blank is hurting this team with his meddling too. Having big money doesn't fix all problems. They better resign Michael Boley and Roddy White. We don't have a lot of talent, and we can't afford to keep letting our good players get away. I think the Falcons will be a pretty good team in the future. This gave us some depth in some of the many positions we needed depth in. We still need some offensive linemen, but we can get some next year. I can't wait until preseason, man. I really want to see how the team plays..

Kobe is still the best in the game, but yeah..he could get a spot in the list somewhere.

I also just thought about Patrick O'Bryant. He's young, big, and just hasn't been given a lot of playing time in Golden State. We might be able to get him, and hopefully without spending too much. He may flourish on a team with a solid banger and the best shotblocker in the game. I'm thinking best case scenario, he becomes Chris Kaman like.

We'd have to replace Joe Johnson with one great player. He's our franchise player and does a lot of things most of the league can't do.

Quote: Here's the problem. The NBA could be really clean. However, Stern is such the smuggest bastard that he makes things worse. When you take the I'm smarter than you and you all are just peons road, then you better not get caught in a scandal.. .Weather it be lottery fixing or game fixing because whenever there's a scandal, people want humility from leadership and Stern is not designed to do that. I agree.

I do not like David Stern as the NBA's commissioner after such an explosive scandal, and one that is just as bad as MLB's steroid scandal. The integrity of professional basketball has been tainted by the league officials, mafias, and referees. I've always questioned Stern's motivation on some of the decisions that he's made and not made. I don't like the new age limit and don't really think it helps players as much as it can hurt some. I think it benefits the NCAA much more than the players and the NBA. Anyways, How do yall feel about David Stern ?