EazyRoc

Quote: I know it's hard to pull off deals with teams within your division, but here's my thoughts for what the Hawks should do this offseason.......... Re-Sign Josh Smith Sign Kwame Brown Trade Mike Bibby & Marvin Williams for Gerald Wallace, Matt Carroll, and Raymond Felton Sign & Trade Josh Childress and ZaZa Pachulia for Chris Wilcox and Damien Wilkins New Roster......... Felton Johnson Wallace Smith Horford Bench: Wilcox, Carroll, Law, Wilkins, Brown, Claxton, Jones This gives us a solid 10 man rotation as well as improves us defensively. Our bench has shooters to help us with bench scoring. Don't know if either of the trading partners would be interested in either of those deals, but these were some of my thoughts. Charlotte saves money this year and with Bibby coming off the books (Marvin also), they've got alot of $ freed up to either re-sign players or pursue others in FA. Seattle gets ZaZa's expiring deal and a young athletic wing in Childress to grow with both Durant and Green. We'd need a new goal every half because all the bricks our starting 5 would throw up.

Quote: No one wants you here either, douchebag.Start a petition, then.

Quote: I don't know anything about him OFF the court or what he is like in the locker room but he plays hard on both ends. Seems to me that he is a Larry Brown type of guy from an effort perspective. I wonder what the issue is? Work ethic? Health? Bad teammate? Jordan's ego because Wallace doesn't kiss his ass? Jordan thinking that Wallace was "milking it" when he wasn't playing due to the reported concussion issues? Who knows but I would certainly like to find out before I would consider trading for him. In addition, if TOR wanted Wallace AND a pick for the oft-injured TJ Ford, that sends up a red flag to me. I wouldn't trade Chillz or Marvin for Ford straight up because of Ford's injury history - let alone throw in a pick with them to get him. That is absurd! In fact, TOR would have include the pick, not us. If TOR asked CHA for a pick along with Wallace, there MUST be some issues there that we are not aware of. Multiple concussions are a big deal in contact sports, man. He could be one bad collision away from losing his basketball career. The more you have, the worse the concussions become. I think it's also easier to get a concussion once you've had one. For a guy who's a shotblocker, that could change the way he plays, making him more conservative. Gerald Wallace has a bad injury history and he wouldn't make our team better. However, we would be one of the best transition teams in the league! Like the Showtime Lakers!

Quote: Seriously. No one wants you here, Dolfan. Get a life.

Quote: credit for. Sure he's not Ray Allen but the guy shoots 32% from 3 and has to be respected from deep and off the dribble. Marvin is a better mid-range shooter no doubt but you have to respect a guy that can shoot from deep or dribble past you like Wallace can. Marvin is a good defender and certainly underrated by most but he doesn't create transition opportunities anywhere near as well as Wallace does. Having a guy that can steal the ball and be a help defender/shot blocker from the other side of the floor from Smoove would make our defensive significantly better and would make teams even more cautious to shoot in the paint. 32% is still very bad. I don't think teams would even step out on Wallace. If I were the coach of an opposing team, I'd tell all my swingman not to play defense outside of 20 ft. I'd take my chances with Josh Smith, Gerald Wallace, and Acie Law shooting. Also, Raymond Felton is a god awful shooter as well. Another thing! We can't always run, and we wont get enough fast break opportunities to make up for the fact that Joe Johnson is the only one capable of consistently knocking a shot from 20 ft.+. The trade looks decent on paper, but we'd be a poor shooting version of the 76ers, and the 76ers were the worst shooting team in the league. What happens in the playoffs, when we're forced into playing more half court like Boston did us ? We're in serious trouble.

Quote: This guy doesn't even live in Atlanta. How can the person in charge of the site not even live in the city? All he does is argue with people's opinions and doesn't offer anything productive here. OK, we all have OPINIONS, so quit pissing us all off and leave this site. Thanks. You heard the man! All you do is discuss and argue opinions, and it's pissing me off. LEAVE.

I can't see Golden State trading Biedrins for Bibby.

Quote: Vince Young should be higher. Have you seen his TD/INT? Horrible. Granted, the Titans might have one of the worst overall offenses in the league, but still, he is supposed to be a professional. You're right, the Titans have one of the worse offenses in the league. They just don't have any talent on the offensive side.

MLB: Ken Griffey Jr NBA: Joe Johnson NFL:LaDanian Tomlinson

Quote: I think retaining all our younger talent will be the way this team goes. I think Bibby is gone after this year and JJ after his current contract ends. I like both players but Bibby even at $8mil per really isn't much better than Acie or other cheaper options we might find, especially given his injury tendencies. JJ is great but he can barely carry a team to a playoff win or two. Really he's just another 6'9 multifaceted player and we already have plenty of those. SG is the easiest position to fill cheaply. I hope we start looking for his young replacement soon and start looking to trade JJ. This is where the Shelden draft year hurt us, Roy or even Foye would work fine to allow us to move JJ for a center, etc. Of course, maybe a better option is pick up a cheaper 2 or 3 and let JJ cover the opposite position and trade Marvin. Hmm, kinda makes it look like it's either keep Marvin or JJ doesn't it. So, the Lakers should get rid of Kobe Bryant because he can barely carry his team to a playoff win or two ? Wow. Our team would be so unbelievably bad without Joe Johnson. I wouldn't even watch the Hawks if they moved Joe. He's young, skilled, and one of the best wingmen in the game. He's one of the more versatile scorers, and our only All Star player. You think Randy Foye could have replaced Joe's production..seriously ? Also, nobody in the league except LeBron James or Chris Bosh carries their teams anywhere. Any other star player (in the playoffs) you name had significant help from a talented teammate or two. Our team would be beyond bad if our offensive focus night in and night out were Josh Smith or Marvin Williams. Also, SG isn't the easiest position to fill cheaply. PG is.

Quote: Quote: No, for me, the Babcock decision to trade Steve Smith for J.R. Rider was the most incredibly outrageously idiotic trade I think I've ever seen. Sturt, I tend to disagree with a lot of your opinions on the Hawks but I couldn't agree more with one of the most important ones. This is easily the worst decision our franchise has ever made. I remember after the trade was announced I made a post (I was on the Hawkee board on AOL at the time, don't laugh) about how it wasn't going to work. Why "rebuild" a yearly playoff team. I knew trades needed to be made as we were getting older but why make that trade the year Jordan retires? We finally had a shot at the east and we trade away our core for a cancer.?.? That forum got pretty heated around that time and I remember posting that a lot of our fans had become spoiled with our playoff runs every year and tried to remind them just how hard it really is to get there. Longest playoff draught in the NBA later I was wishing I still had AOL just so I could ask how they like their crow. I also saw JR at Lennox during that year (after several missed practices) and proceeded to ask what he was doing there. "Wow, JR Rider at the mall. Are you here steeling something or just skipping practice?" Needless to say we got into a bit of a low-level shouting match. What an *ss. Something I'll always remember. That's actually a very rude thing to come up to a grown man, and say. He didn't deserve to be approached like that no matter how much of a cancer he was.

Quote: I would gladly take Carroll but that makes the trade fail by about $200,000 so we would have to add in another player (and Solo is the only likely option which I'm not a fan of) in order to make the deal work. We would definitely be set for the future with Acie, JJ, Wallace, Smoove, and Al as our top 5. That would be a sick lineup offensively and defensively. We'd be the worst shooting team in the league, hands down.

Quote: Quote: One thing that we should consider is by the time Joe comes up for an extinsion will he still be the best player on the team? If the answer is yes then we should lock him up long term for about the same money that he is making now but if the answer is no then we should try to sign him for less money so that we can invest in our younger and better players. I don't see anybody challenging JJ as the best offensive option on this team. NOT SMoove and NOT Horf. I think we need to be smart about this and notice that JJ is still young and still putting up the goods. Definitely. I don't think anyone on our roster will ever be more capable on offense than Joe Johnson. He is hands down our star player, and still one of the most underrated players in the league. He's our franchise player, and still has good years ahead of him.

Quote: No, I would not give Marvin away for Nothing. I would trade Marvin for something we could use. You however.. would keep Marvin regardless of logjam. Regardless of Salary cap issues. Regardless of lack of heart.. And the only reason you'd do so is because we drafted him. Let me ask you something. If Marvin played for the Suns. And we had Raja Bell and Brook Lopez.. Would you trade them for Marvin? If Marvin played for Charlotte. And we had Gerald Wallace, would you trade G-Force for Marvin and Speedy? If Marvin played for Detroit, and we had Tayshun.. Would you trade Tayshun for Marvin? I would love to hear your responses! I don't know how you came to the conclusion that Marvin doesn't have a or play with heart. Also, I would send Lopez and Bell for Marvin if I were the Suns. Bell's defense is overrated, and he's old. Lopez hasn't proven anything in the NBA, and may never be any good on offense or defense.

Quote: Quote: Marvin represents 5 Million dollars. If we take Marvin to the offseason, we will have the same sort of situation where we might be forced to sign him to a high contract just to keep him. IN my mind, Marvin represents a tradable player for that reason. Makes no sense to trade him now because he is cheap! It make sense to trade Bibby because he is expensive and his production doesn't come close to his salary. If you are going to trade Marvin, it would make sense to trade him after the season.

He's not productive nor is he the type of veteran this team needs.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: They may break the record for points allowed. For all the talk about how bad Smoove on ball defense is Marvin would be worse then him. He is weaker than Smoove and isn't a threat to block shots. For all Smoove shortcomings he still defends the paint with intensity not many can match. There is no one to help Big Al if his man beats him down low. Bibby starting PG + Marvin starting PF = Horrible Defense! I can agree with you if you just mean the post, but Marvin is our second best perimeter defender behind Joe Johnson. no he's not.That's goes to Mario West or Acie Law.both of those guys can keep any guy in front of them.They may be better than Joe. I believe AC and Mario are both solid defenders, but they didn't have enough time on the court to show they could do it consistently. Mario was overaggressive and fouled a lot. AC just couldn't get on the court and stay on the court. I believe if Joe was the second option on a team, you'd get to see just how good his D is. Regardless, Marvin played better D than Mario or Law. They always kept they guy in front of them.Marvin wasn't as consistent at that.He doesn't do anything else like block shots or get steals that would make one think he was better in other defensive aspects.So when it came to keeping his man in front of him out on the perimeter,West and Acie were better,it doesn't matter how much they played,if it was one thing they did all year consistently it was keep their man in front of them on defense.Not knocking Marvin's defense but he was not our 2nd best peremeter defender. It does matter how much they played. It's also about when they played too, and who they were usually matched up on. A lot of nights Marvin would guard the other team's best player. Not to mention to play over 2,000 minutes and be a good defender means more than being a good defender who hasn't had enough minutes to really prove himself. He's no Battier or Bowen, but he is a a good defender and our team's second best perimeter defender. Besides if they were as good as advertised, they both would have played more minutes than they did.

Quote: Quote: Quote: They may break the record for points allowed. For all the talk about how bad Smoove on ball defense is Marvin would be worse then him. He is weaker than Smoove and isn't a threat to block shots. For all Smoove shortcomings he still defends the paint with intensity not many can match. There is no one to help Big Al if his man beats him down low. Bibby starting PG + Marvin starting PF = Horrible Defense! I can agree with you if you just mean the post, but Marvin is our second best perimeter defender behind Joe Johnson. no he's not.That's goes to Mario West or Acie Law.both of those guys can keep any guy in front of them.They may be better than Joe. I believe AC and Mario are both solid defenders, but they didn't have enough time on the court to show they could do it consistently. Mario was overaggressive and fouled a lot. AC just couldn't get on the court and stay on the court. I believe if Joe was the second option on a team, you'd get to see just how good his D is. Regardless, Marvin played better D than Mario or Law.

Quote: They may break the record for points allowed. For all the talk about how bad Smoove on ball defense is Marvin would be worse then him. He is weaker than Smoove and isn't a threat to block shots. For all Smoove shortcomings he still defends the paint with intensity not many can match. There is no one to help Big Al if his man beats him down low. Bibby starting PG + Marvin starting PF = Horrible Defense! I can agree with you if you just mean the post, but Marvin is our second best perimeter defender behind Joe Johnson.

Quote: Quote: We can use Marvin to address some needs next offseason in a sign and trade. Regardless this is his last year in Atlanta unless he takes a MLE type of contract. LOL @ MLE contract. I guess Marvin is going to go into decline next year huh? Marvin may be ther very reason why we don't match either Smith or Chill. This board is amazing. The kid averages 15 ppg, 6 boards and shot 46% FG and 80+% FTs . . yet . . people feel he's a dime a dozen player that has the worth of Royal Ivey. Ish, Lebron would love to have a Marvin on his squad. So would Kobe, Wade, and T-Mac. If Marvin improves ANY next year, he's getting a hefty pay raise as well. If not from us, from somebody. I think many people expected him to be a superstar player. Regardless, he's still productive and a very important part of our team. He's a big reason that our playoff series went 7 games, and a big reason we made the playoffs.

Quote: Quote: and that question is simply this. If we sign him to the money he wants and god forbid JJ goes down with an injury, is Smoove capable of leading this team to the playoffs, is Smoove capable of being the man. We all know the answer to this question!!!! Not the man, but gets paid the man money Allstar team: Odom Redd Marbury K. Martin Peja Rashad Lewis Jermain O'Neil Shawn Marion You guys know what these guys have in common right??? How many of those guys would you rather have than Smith? If we can get two of those guys for Smith, I'd be game.

Quote: great news....i think jeremy has a future if he puts the work in and gains confidence and experience...the same with solo....i like mario's hussle, but he HAS to get some type of offensive rythym. not neccessarily a scorer but be, i don't know, better than me. Mario needs to be able to shoot the 3 and improve his handles.

Quote: If we fail to resign JSmoove, I'm sure it will be in the running for greatest Hawk disappointment, but there are some others that are probably worse. I picked the ASG fallout. A lot of the things on the list were before my time, so I picked the most disappointing thing in recent memory.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Let's be honest here EazyRoc... Honest... Based on what you just said, I have this question. Do you think Marvin has more value now than when he was first drafted? Of course not. That has little to do with anything, though. The point is, Marvin Williams will be better next year and therefore we could either resign him or trade him for more than what we would get for him right now. I'm starting to feel like a broken record.. More honesty time EazyRoc... No need for more answer, I will just spew truth. Marvin was picked based on his potential. He was potentially supposed to be one of the best Sfs to play the game. Potentially, he was "James Worthy with a sweet Jumpshot". Well, three years have passed.. and call it his none agressiveness or whatever but he hasn't lived up to his potential. You and I just agreed that he had more value when it was all about him being potential than he has NOW... Therefore, the ship is sinking. People are seeing that Marvin is just an overhyped midrange shooter. That's all he does is hit open midrange shots and he really doesn't make big plays or carries a team. Recently, My old buddy exoudus when asked when was the last time (aside from the Seattle game) did Marvin "step up" he mentioned 2 games... One that we lost and the other where he was tied for 3rd scorer. Do you think the league scouts are not in tuned to Marvin and his failures? The best that we can do is try to capitalize on those teams that still have hope that he may turn out to be another late bloomer and would be willing to give us a good player that we could use in place of Marvin. Otherwise on next year, we're liable to be in a position where we just let Marvin go for nothing just because it will be too hard for us to give him the MLE or worse some team will give him more than the MLE on an offer sheet. Don't let Marvin become our next Alan Henderson. Marvin stepped up for us in the playoffs (game 6 I believe) and was our leading scoring, and the main reason we won the game. I do not think Marvin Williams will be the superstar player scouts predicted he would be. I still think Marvin Williams could be good enough to be a borderline All-Star (although that doesn't mean he'll ever make an All Star team) and I definitely think his game will improve next year. Answer a question honestly for me, Do you think Marvin Williams will be better next year than he was last year ? We had 6 players in double figures and Zaza scored 9 in that game. Marvin was top scorer by happenstance. Quote: In his best game of the series, Williams went 6-of-9 from the field and made all six of his free throws. Atlanta got double figures from every starter. Besides Williams' 18, Bibby had 17, Horford 16, Johnson 15, and Smith -- who played less than 30 minutes because of foul trouble -- finished with 11. Off the bench, Childress had 15 points and six rebounds, while Pachulia contributed nine points and six rebounds. That's real worthy like. You didn't answer my question. Also, Marvin Williams was the top scorer because he stepped up when our team needed him to step up. For you to say it's "happenstance" is completely unreasonable, and unfair to Marvin Williams. Also, I've already acknowledged that he won't be a Hall of Fame or even a superstar player, so why keep trying to compare him to Worthy ?

Quote: Quote: Quote: Let's be honest here EazyRoc... Honest... Based on what you just said, I have this question. Do you think Marvin has more value now than when he was first drafted? Of course not. That has little to do with anything, though. The point is, Marvin Williams will be better next year and therefore we could either resign him or trade him for more than what we would get for him right now. I'm starting to feel like a broken record.. More honesty time EazyRoc... No need for more answer, I will just spew truth. Marvin was picked based on his potential. He was potentially supposed to be one of the best Sfs to play the game. Potentially, he was "James Worthy with a sweet Jumpshot". Well, three years have passed.. and call it his none agressiveness or whatever but he hasn't lived up to his potential. You and I just agreed that he had more value when it was all about him being potential than he has NOW... Therefore, the ship is sinking. People are seeing that Marvin is just an overhyped midrange shooter. That's all he does is hit open midrange shots and he really doesn't make big plays or carries a team. Recently, My old buddy exoudus when asked when was the last time (aside from the Seattle game) did Marvin "step up" he mentioned 2 games... One that we lost and the other where he was tied for 3rd scorer. Do you think the league scouts are not in tuned to Marvin and his failures? The best that we can do is try to capitalize on those teams that still have hope that he may turn out to be another late bloomer and would be willing to give us a good player that we could use in place of Marvin. Otherwise on next year, we're liable to be in a position where we just let Marvin go for nothing just because it will be too hard for us to give him the MLE or worse some team will give him more than the MLE on an offer sheet. Don't let Marvin become our next Alan Henderson. Marvin stepped up for us in the playoffs (game 6 I believe) and was our leading scoring, and the main reason we won the game. I do not think Marvin Williams will be the superstar player scouts predicted he would be. I still think Marvin Williams could be good enough to be a borderline All-Star (although that doesn't mean he'll ever make an All Star team) and I definitely think his game will improve next year. Answer a question honestly for me, Do you think Marvin Williams will be better next year than he was last year ?